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It's time for a serious second stimulus -- not a hodge podge of pork and transfer payments, but a truly big and bold infrastructure program (like what we were promised the first time, but which didn't happen) to put people to work.

Another call for yet another stimulus program.

The only possible way this could work would be to invest in technology to produce a low cost economy, that simply isn't going to happen as too many powerful people are addicted to zero's being good. The more you have after a number the better.

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Guest KingCharles1st

My next door neighbour who is a builder offered to la a new bit of flooring in the kitchen today- for a TENNER!

Every person I talk to has got agg- BIG Agg

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Another call for yet another stimulus program.

yep

100% correct

as many as possible need to read this book

the stimulus will get larger and larger until the currency implodes

http://mises.org/books/inflationinfrance.pdf

And, first, in the economic department. From the early

reluctant and careful issues of paper we saw, as an immediate

result, improvement and activity in business. Then

arose the clamor for more paper money. At first, new issues

were made with great difficulty; but, the dyke once broken,

the current of irredeemable currency poured through; and,

the breach thus enlarging, this currency was soon swollen

beyond control. It was urged on by speculators for a rise

in values; by demagogues who persuaded the mob that a

nation, by its simple fiat, could stamp real value to any

amount upon valueless objects. As a natural consequence a

great debtor class grew rapidly, and this class gave its influence

to depreciate more and more the currency in which

its debts were to be paid.†

The government now began, and continued by spasms to

grind out still more paper; commerce was at first stimulated

by the difference in exchange; but this cause soon ceased

to operate, and commerce, having been stimulated unhealthfully,

wasted away.

Manufactures at first received a great impulse; but, ere

long, this overproduction and overstimulus proved as fatal

to them as to commerce. From time to time there was a

revival of hope caused by an apparent revival of business;

but this revival of business was at last seen to be caused

more and more by the desire of far-seeing and cunning men

of affairs to exchange paper money for objects of permanent

value. As to the people at large, the classes living on fixed

incomes and small salaries felt the pressure first, as soon

as the purchasing power of their fixed incomes was reduced.

Soon the great class living on wages felt it even more sadly.

Prices of the necessities of life increased: merchants were

obliged to increase them, not only to cover depreciation of

their merchandise, but also to cover their risk of loss from

fluctuation; and, while the prices of products thus rose,

wages, which had at first gone up, under the general stimulus,

lagged behind. Under the universal doubt and discouragement,

commerce and manufactures were checked or

destroyed. As a consequence the demand for labor was

diminished; laboring men were thrown out of employment,

and, under the operation of the simplest law of supply and

demand, the price of labor—the daily wages of the laboring

class—went down until, at a time when prices of food, clothing

and various articles of consumption were enormous,

wages were nearly as low as at the time preceding the first

issue of irredeemable currency.

The mercantile classes at first thought themselves exempt

from the general misfortune. They were delighted at the

apparent advance in the value of the goods upon their

shelves. But they soon found that, as they increased prices

to cover the inflation of currency and the risk from fluctuation

and uncertainty, purchases became less in amount and

payments less sure; a feeling of insecurity spread throughout

the country; enterprise was deadened and stagnation

followed.

New issues of paper were then clamored for as more

drams are demanded by a drunkard. New issues only increased

the evil; capitalists were all the more reluctant to

embark their money on such a sea of doubt. Workmen of

all sorts were more and more thrown out of employment.

Issue after issue of currency came; but no relief resulted

save a momentary stimulus, which aggravated the disease.

The most ingenious evasions of natural laws in finance which

the most subtle theorists could contrive were tried—all in

vain; the most brilliant substitutes for those laws were

tried; "self-regulating" schemes, "interconverting" schemes

—all equally vain.* All thoughtful men had lost confidence.

All men were waiting; stagnation became worse and worse.

At last came the collapse and then a return, by a fearful

shock, to a state of things which presented something

like certainty of remuneration to capital and labor. Then,

and not till then, came the beginning of a new era of prosperity.

Just as dependent on the law of cause and effect was the

moral development. Out of the inflation of prices grew

a speculating class; and, in the complete uncertainty as to

the future, all business became a game of chance, and all

business men, gamblers. In city centers came a quick growth

of stock-jobbers and speculators; and these set a debasing

fashion in business which spread to the remotest parts of

the country. Instead of satisfaction with legitimate profits,

came a passion for inordinate gains. Then, too, as values

became more and more uncertain, there was no longer any

motive for care or economy, but every motive for immediate

expenditure and present enjoyment. So came upon the

nation the obliteration of thrift. In this mania for yielding

to present enjoyment rather than providing for future comfort

were the seeds of new growths of wretchedness: luxury,

senseless and extravagant, set in: this, too, spread as a

fashion. To feed it, there came cheatery in the nation at

large and corruption among officials and persons holding

trusts. While men set such fashions in private and official

business, women set fashions of extravagance in dress and

living that added to the incentives to corruption. Faith in

moral considerations, or even in good impulses, yielded to

general distrust. National honor was thought a fiction cher-

ished only by hypocrites. Patriotism was eaten out by

cynicism.

Thus was the history of France logically developed in

obedience to natural laws; such has, to a greater or less degree,

always been the result of irredeemable paper, created

according to the whim or interest of legislative assemblies

rather than based upon standards of value permanent in

their nature and agreed upon throughout the entire world.

Such, we may fairly expect, will always be the result of

them until the ñat of the Almighty shall evolve laws in the

universe radically different from those which at present

obtain.*

And, finally, as to the general development of the theory

and practice which all this history records: my subject has

been Fiat Money in France; How it came; What it brought;

and How it ended.

It came by seeking a remedy for a comparatively small

evil in an evil infinitely more dangerous. To cure a disease

temporary in its character, a corrosive poison was administered,

which ate out the vitals of French prosperity.

It progressed according to a law in social physics which

we may call the "law of accelerating issue and depreciation."

It was comparatively easy to refrain from the first

issue; it was exceedingly difficult to refrain from the second;

to refrain from the third and those following was practically

impossible.

It brought, as we have seen, commerce and manufactures,

the mercantile interest, the agricultural interest, to ruin.

It brought on these the same destruction which would come

to a Hollander opening the dykes of the sea to irrigate his

garden in a dry summer.

It ended in the complete financial, moral and political

prostration of France—a prostration from which only a

Napoleon could raise it.

Edited by lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)

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yep

100% correct

as many as possible need to read this book

the stimulus will get larger and larger until the currency implodes

http://mises.org/books/inflationinfrance.pdf

+1

A blueprint for what is happening in the UK

Regarding unemployment in the UK.

Official number is 2.26 million but if you look at the number of working age people who are not working it is over 7 million.

The inactivity rate for people of working age was 20.8 per cent for the three months to April 2009, up 0.2 over the previous quarter but unchanged over the year. The number of economically inactive people of working age rose by 92,000 over the quarter and by 32,000 over the year to reach 7.89 million. The category showing the largest quarterly increase was inactive students which increased by 83,000 to reach 2.14 million, the highest figure since comparable records began in 1993.
ONS

When the people on incapacity benefit were re-assessed using new criteria up to 90% were transferred to unemployment benefit and there are 2.7 million on incapacity benefit.

By all accounts we have more than 5 million unemployed and claiming benefits (though not always the right benefit). Some way more than under Thatcher so another of Browns Boasts turns out to be hollow

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My next door neighbour who is a builder offered to la a new bit of flooring in the kitchen today- for a TENNER!

Every person I talk to has got agg- BIG Agg

Low transaction numbers due to artificially propped prices (yet again) are going to cause further and prolonged havoc to the building trade. People spend money and employ trades when they move, they spend on materials, services, furniture, white goods, the whole caboodle generally and the odd extension thrown in. Add cheap migrant labour to the mix and you have a pretty caustic work/employment environment - all on top of normal / worse than normal recessionary pressures.

Edited by OnlyMe

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My next door neighbour who is a builder offered to la a new bit of flooring in the kitchen today- for a TENNER!

Every person I talk to has got agg- BIG Agg

AGG? Is that a PM?

Reply ASAP. FAB. TAR.

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One of the issues is the same fail train leadership that led to the crash showed itself in the stimulus. A few greedy, traitorous individuals got billions.. hundreds of billions is simply locked up in bureaucracy or the courts as projects need 200 approvals to go forward. Someone said a year ago, the problem with infrastructure stimulus in America is it would take 10 years to get all the approvals to even start work. For example if someone applies now to build a nuclear power plant the Nuclear regulatory commission takes 4 years to review the proposal, and its a 2 year waiting list before reviews start. And that is just one of many approvals a plant would need.

On the other hand well ran nations, the stimulus is predictably; well ran. In China their stimulus is having a tremendous effect on reducing unemployment, and they are building hundreds of projects that will have lasting value for the public.

In France, men who would otherwise be unemployed are already working around the country on public works projects.

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Worse than you think?

How is it possible for anything to be worse than posters on here think?

The beans have gone off and the tin foil is made from aluminium?

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Worse than you think?

How is it possible for anything to be worse than posters on here think?

Linky please.

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By all accounts we have more than 5 million unemployed and claiming benefits (though not always the right benefit). Some way more than under Thatcher so another of Browns Boasts turns out to be hollow

But surely now being unemployed is a far better proposition for the long term feckless than it was 20 years ago.

If they can afford Sky TV and foreign holidays they are getting too much IMO

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The US only has 4.4 million long term unemployed? I wouldn't be surprised if we had almost that many and they have five times our population.

i think they have a population of 260 mil.

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So it's worse than I think....... So now I'm thinking it's worse......... so that means it's even worse than I was thinking just a second ago........ but its worse than I think........ so it's even worse than that then?.................. by now it's even worse........

I've got headache....

that makes it worse than I think..........

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Worse than you think?

How is it possible for anything to be worse than posters on here think?

No, it really is worse. I've always considered the people on HPC far too optimistic.

Nomadd

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AGG? Is that a PM? Reply ASAP. FAB. TAR.

Aggregates?

Aggro?

Always Going Golfing?

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The US only has 4.4 million long term unemployed? I wouldn't be surprised if we had almost that many and they have five times our population.

I think you will find the figures are manipulated in the good ole USofA worse than here, if that is possible!

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