Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Furious

Problems At Work - Advice Wanted Please

Recommended Posts

Fellow HPCers.

This may seem like a weird place to post such a request, but it also strikes me that you lot are a step ahead of the average pleb.

I have a situation at work, where I know for certain that someone was helped into a position that I should have been slotted into (based on my present contract following redeployment). The excuse given to me by the team manager was that the job was significantly different to my old position, the reality is both the job title and the duties almost exactly match those of my previous position.

I've also had it confirmed to me verbally, by one of the interviewers that the interview process was all a farce and the person who has the job now was lined up by the team manager.

I'm now in a situation where I have a temporary contract with the company I work for (as opposed to being back in a permanent position), and my career plans have taken a knock.

I'm quite prepared to take on the system but have no experience of how these things usually evolve. In the current climate I would not want to be forced out, even if it involves a payoff, and I'm not entirely sure what outcome I'm looking for.

Do any of you guys have any relevant experience that you could offer here?

Thanks

F

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest this sort of thing happens all the time and there is very little you can do about it. Unless you have written evidence that the job is substantively different to yours, then it'll be your word against theirs if it comes to anything formal. Because the laws relating to recruitment are so extensive and restrictive, many employers tend to want to make the process as informal as possible, generating as little written evidence as possible. The usual trick when they want to appoint a specific individual but have to go through a formal recruitment process is to create an unusual combination of essential criteria in the person spec, such that it's very unlikely that anyone else would be able to tick all the boxes.

There again, if you're what a politically incorrect friend of mine calls a WWW (wog, woman or woofter), even a hint of a discrimination accusation could have them in full retreat, especially if it's not a big enough company to absorb the legal costs of a protracted tribunal case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest this sort of thing happens all the time and there is very little you can do about it. Unless you have written evidence that the job is substantively different to yours, then it'll be your word against theirs if it comes to anything formal. Because the laws relating to recruitment are so extensive and restrictive, many employers tend to want to make the process as informal as possible, generating as little written evidence as possible. The usual trick when they want to appoint a specific individual but have to go through a formal recruitment process is to create an unusual combination of essential criteria in the person spec, such that it's very unlikely that anyone else would be able to tick all the boxes.

There again, if you're what a politically incorrect friend of mine calls a WWW (wog, woman or woofter), even a hint of a discrimination accusation could have them in full retreat, especially if it's not a big enough company to absorb the legal costs of a protracted tribunal case.

Thanks for that.

It just so happens, that I do have such a statement in writing.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They clearly want the guy they've chosen, for whatever reason. That's their prerogative.

You've been hard done by, but I can't see any grounds for fighting it, because your 'expectations' aren't really relevant. I think their excuses are transparent and pathetic, but don't offer grounds for a worthwhile appeal. Neither does the 'interview' fudging. This goes on all the time. Actually proving the process was a farce seems very difficult indeed.

Now isn't the time to make waves.

Sorry that you've been done over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fellow HPCers.

This may seem like a weird place to post such a request, but it also strikes me that you lot are a step ahead of the average pleb.

I have a situation at work, where I know for certain that someone was helped into a position that I should have been slotted into (based on my present contract following redeployment). The excuse given to me by the team manager was that the job was significantly different to my old position, the reality is both the job title and the duties almost exactly match those of my previous position.

I've also had it confirmed to me verbally, by one of the interviewers that the interview process was all a farce and the person who has the job now was lined up by the team manager.

I'm now in a situation where I have a temporary contract with the company I work for (as opposed to being back in a permanent position), and my career plans have taken a knock.

I'm quite prepared to take on the system but have no experience of how these things usually evolve. In the current climate I would not want to be forced out, even if it involves a payoff, and I'm not entirely sure what outcome I'm looking for.

Do any of you guys have any relevant experience that you could offer here?

Thanks

F

Work isnt fun or fair thats why they pay you to go in :(

The manager obviously wanted to appoint someone else - so he did :(

Complaining is unlikely to do you any good :(

Go in, shut up, do your work, look for another job ;)

Eventually one of three things will happen:

- the manager will leave

- you'll leave for another job

- you'll get an internal job you want

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be thankful. The guy in the job is probably a 'yes man' put their specifically so they can get him to do any shit they tell him without question by himself. Probably means you are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest skullingtonjoe
Thanks for that.

It just so happens, that I do have such a statement in writing.......

I agree that work is really crap. I`ve got a friend working in Switzerland who - now that he`s at managerial level - says that 50% of his time is spent trying to manage political situations instead of doing the job (developer / programmer). He hates having to deal with this (even though he is more than able to handle it), and wishes he was back in a less senior position with more time to actually `do` work.

On a moral level you`re well within your rights to be pissed off and angry; even taking the employer to a tribunal might be a good thing. However, (and please excuse me if I sound patronising) ;), but life is not fair. What I mean is that you may get your rights, but if you pursue this matter you will be likely be `pushed out` (which could be construed as `constructive dismissal` which could lead to a further payout of up to £50,000) ;)

Does the potential payoff balance against the possibility that if you were to go through legal proceedings and your employer paid out, you would most likely be asked to leave with a less-than-glowing reference. I know there are laws to stop employers fu<king you up, but many of them are sneaky vindictive bastards who will try their best to mash you up if you pi1ss them off. If you`re close to retirement it will be less of an issue.

My only concern is what kind of impact complaining too much may have on your career. Do you have an HR person? That`s probably the best person to air a grievance. If your company is of any standard it should have a grievance procedure. Believe me, I understand your situation, but don`t go rushing in where angels fear to tread ;) Also: watch your back and keep a written, dated record of what you`re being asked to do, what`s happening etc etc etc. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Skinty
Be thankful. The guy in the job is probably a 'yes man' put their specifically so they can get him to do any shit they tell him without question by himself. Probably means you are not.

Also means that the company isn't making the right decisions and it's the grunts at the bottom who are hampered in doing a good job.

Take this as a signal that you should leave for somewhere better,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does your contract say in cast iron terms you're entitled to the new job if it becomes available? If so, I'd go and see a lawyer...if they could end up paying you the salary of the higher job anyway, they may as well give it to you.

I suspect they are not very sophisticated on the legal front: they can probably be rolled back, if their brazen bluff gets called.

Most employers have an instinctive fear of getting legalled, so will always try to advise any employee not to go down that route and take it up the a2se instead; and most of the people on this website are employers. Hence the not so subtle suggestion that an employer may blackmail you over the reference issue, so don't do it sonny.

I'd spend the money on one hour with a specialist employment lawyer, myself. Make sure it's a specialist. Take contract and written evidence. Horrendously expensive (about £350 plus VAT if they're specialist), but better to know the score definitively/better than taking it up the a2rse for the next 6 months.

Sounds like step 2 is getting rid of you anyway; after all, they've just got newbie in to do your job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fellow HPCers.

This may seem like a weird place to post such a request, but it also strikes me that you lot are a step ahead of the average pleb.

I have a situation at work, where I know for certain that someone was helped into a position that I should have been slotted into (based on my present contract following redeployment). The excuse given to me by the team manager was that the job was significantly different to my old position, the reality is both the job title and the duties almost exactly match those of my previous position.

I've also had it confirmed to me verbally, by one of the interviewers that the interview process was all a farce and the person who has the job now was lined up by the team manager.

I'm now in a situation where I have a temporary contract with the company I work for (as opposed to being back in a permanent position), and my career plans have taken a knock.

I'm quite prepared to take on the system but have no experience of how these things usually evolve. In the current climate I would not want to be forced out, even if it involves a payoff, and I'm not entirely sure what outcome I'm looking for.

Do any of you guys have any relevant experience that you could offer here?

Thanks

F

Firstly, you are not your job. As important as this may appear to you now you are not your job - well, you might be.

Many of us make this mistake.

Are you in a private sector or public sector organisation? You can go to an employment tribunal, get lawyers involved, have a great deal of stress and possible expense... and perhaps get no where. Or then you might get a pay-out but undoubtedly will have to leave this organisation anyway as the atmosphere will be awful afterwards.

So, as others have commented, get out now whilst you can. Make sure you get good references beforehand, slow down on being 'the company man' now as there is no reward and only grief in it. And then go.

Take it from someone who has been in a similar position - in Welsh TV you often seen really good English-speaking Welsh overlooked for jobs and promotions by those who are part of the Taffia IMPO - and it is a no win situation.

Being a fire-fighter or a storm chaser in an organisation which is political in nature is just a recipe for stress and illness.

Run, run now and don't look back IMPO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The amount of leverage you can exert is directly dependent on how much they value you. You may not be fully aware of how much (or how little) you are valued, and neither probably does your boss.

My tactic in these situations was always to look for another job. Do it subtly at first - just apply for interviews, and when you start getting them, just ask discretely for days off. When you regularly ask for days off, this gets them thinking.

When you get an offer of another job (this is always quite likely to happen if you are already in a job for some reason) then tell your boss, and try to hint that you are likely to take it. All of a sudden they will have to quickly evaluate how much they really need you - if it is a surprise to them this is especially effective as they are likely to panic and over-compensate to keep you. Whichever, you will find out your true value to the company by what they offer you to keep you - if it isn't much then that other offer will become more attractive and you are better off out.

With my last company I got three pay rises and two promotions in an 18 month period using this method. The bonus was that I had no intention of leaving anyway due to domestic personal reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The amount of leverage you can exert is directly dependent on how much they value you. You may not be fully aware of how much (or how little) you are valued, and neither probably does your boss.

My tactic in these situations was always to look for another job. Do it subtly at first - just apply for interviews, and when you start getting them, just ask discretely for days off. When you regularly ask for days off, this gets them thinking.

When you get an offer of another job (this is always quite likely to happen if you are already in a job for some reason) then tell your boss, and try to hint that you are likely to take it. All of a sudden they will have to quickly evaluate how much they really need you - if it is a surprise to them this is especially effective as they are likely to panic and over-compensate to keep you. Whichever, you will find out your true value to the company by what they offer you to keep you - if it isn't much then that other offer will become more attractive and you are better off out.

With my last company I got three pay rises and two promotions in an 18 month period using this method. The bonus was that I had no intention of leaving anyway due to domestic personal reasons.

Really good advice but DO NOT be tempted just to pretend you have another job and hope for a positive reaction - you actualy have to go the whole hog and apply/interview for other jobs , just as CST suggests . You never quite know if your boss will call your bluff and you will need the other job offer to fall back on.

I had a guy working for me a while back who was a bit of a waster - couldn't just bin him as he was a TUPE jobbie - he tried to blag a promotion / pay rise by pretending another job offer was tempting him - he made the mistake of saying things that were easily construed as giving notice - we bit his hand off and let him go on the spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The amount of leverage you can exert is directly dependent on how much they value you. You may not be fully aware of how much (or how little) you are valued, and neither probably does your boss.

My tactic in these situations was always to look for another job. Do it subtly at first - just apply for interviews, and when you start getting them, just ask discretely for days off. When you regularly ask for days off, this gets them thinking.

When you get an offer of another job (this is always quite likely to happen if you are already in a job for some reason) then tell your boss, and try to hint that you are likely to take it. All of a sudden they will have to quickly evaluate how much they really need you - if it is a surprise to them this is especially effective as they are likely to panic and over-compensate to keep you. Whichever, you will find out your true value to the company by what they offer you to keep you - if it isn't much then that other offer will become more attractive and you are better off out.

With my last company I got three pay rises and two promotions in an 18 month period using this method. The bonus was that I had no intention of leaving anyway due to domestic personal reasons.

If you read the topic starting post, it looks likely his employers regard him as dispensable :unsure:

If our poster was regarded as indispensible (sp?) why is he on a contract and not full time? :blink:

I'm very pleased for you that you are so clever, but I'm not sure that is good advice in this case :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you read the topic starting post, it looks likely his employers regard him as dispensable :unsure:

If our poster was regarded as indispensible (sp?) why is he on a contract and not full time? :blink:

I'm very pleased for you that you are so clever, but I'm not sure that is good advice in this case :(

Let me clarify things a bit

I work in a large multinational company. Last year I took a career break and my old job position was deleted.

I rejoined earlier this year with a contract stating that I would be offered a suitable full time position when one arose, in the meantime I should work for a number of teams in a temporary capacity.

The job in question was my old position, slightly rebranded but with exactly the same duties. Whilst my old boss wanted me back in the role her boss already had someone lined up for it.

I would say I'm valued within the organisation and have a good reputation, however my line of work was specialised and only the small team I was part of carry out this kind of work.

On the plus side I'm on a similar salary, on the downside my contract is less secure, I'm doing a job that I did not chose and have no interest in and it's a dent in the career plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be tempted to get some legal advice - perhaps from a Trade Union. Not sure you can do much in the situation you find yourself, but it'd be worth checking with a legal eagle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AK-47.

Bit drastic but you know deep down it makes sense. Be prepared to turn it on yourself when you've done though. (Keep a bullet in your pocket)

Simples ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me clarify things a bit

I work in a large multinational company. Last year I took a career break and my old job position was deleted.

I rejoined earlier this year with a contract stating that I would be offered a suitable full time position when one arose, in the meantime I should work for a number of teams in a temporary capacity.

The job in question was my old position, slightly rebranded but with exactly the same duties. Whilst my old boss wanted me back in the role her boss already had someone lined up for it.

I would say I'm valued within the organisation and have a good reputation, however my line of work was specialised and only the small team I was part of carry out this kind of work.

On the plus side I'm on a similar salary, on the downside my contract is less secure, I'm doing a job that I did not chose and have no interest in and it's a dent in the career plan.

Try and look at it from the evil HR drone point of view, who is probably under orders to cut staffing costs to the bone.

I took a career break - Poor commitment to the company but then came crawling back.

contract stating that I would be offered a suitable full time position when one arose - They would not have included that clause, or have taken you back at all unless they valued you.

I'm on a similar salary - So what is the problem? Beats dole doesn't it?

contract is less secure - Shouldn't have taken that break then should you?

it's a dent in the career plan - See the last point.

Seriously, from the first post it sounded like promises had been made and you got a short deal, happens all the time in every company and much worse. Life isn't fair.

From the second post you are taking the piss a bit to be so upset. The company is 'restructuring' and they are keeping you on as a contractor?! Your boss has probably had to justify your existence repeatedly and in great detail to HR for that to happen.

If you kick up a stink don't expect to have an extension to your contract or to get any work ever again from them. If you wind up the HR people no amount of goodwill from any of your colleagues or bosses is going to get your CV out of the rubbish bin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem with taking things further - to a tribunal for example.

You can win the case, get a few thousand in compensation and leave the company feeling vindicated. Yet every time you go for an interview and they ask why you left your last job and you tell the truth, you're horsemeat.

We used to use a temp at my last company and that was her story. She was temping because she couldn't get a permanent job with anyone and that was during the boom.

Get another job. It may be frustrating if it doesn't happen immediately but it will and keep yourself in warm and fuzzy feelings at work in the meantime by thinking about handing in your notice and explaining why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at your clarification: I don't think it's worth wasting money on. "when something suitable comes up" means nothing. Agree with the other posters: count the money, do a good job, never complain and look for something you like more. Enjoy the freefalling economy, with you in a nice job. Save every penny you can. How about the Pacific rim for your next move? Be the happiest guy in the office, the guy who's practically coming in his pants all day long; the person everyone's happy to see because he's so damn happy with life. Happiness is magnetic; resentment a turn off.

You're young? Fill in those immigration papers. Singapore? Japan? Taiwan? It's all out there for you, and England will still be in the deep freeze when you get back, facing yet more price hikes and pay freezes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good Advice.

I do sooooooooooooo like the quote 'it's a dent in the career plan'. I mean, please.

Don't let your job define you, you should be defined as you.

What happens when (or if) you get fired? :unsure:

Your self esteem will take a hammering. You shouldn't have taken that break, should you. <_<

But on the plus side, you have a job, be thankful.

+1 :rolleyes:

The "dent to your career plan" is nowhere near as painful as that currently being suffered by people who:

- get laid off by a solvent employer with redundancy :(

- get laid off by the administrator when their company goes bust with next to nothing :o

I'd changed your nick from "Furious" to "Somewhat annoyed" ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Set Fire To the building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   285 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.