Taxpayers Supporting 29,000 Politicians

[dr ray]

Just heard on R4 that the number of politicians now paid for by the taxpayer numbers 29,000. Then there are also expenses and support staff on top.

This is largely made up of local councillors who now draw a wage

To put it in context there were 35,000 hospital consultants in the UK in 2008

I'll get a link when I can

Edit to add link

It was a trailer for "The Political Club" a program on at 11am today on R4

Edited July 13, 2009 by dr ray

[abharrisson]

I wonder how much the full time equivalent cost of each politician is ( the councillors I suspect will be on a lower wage as part time)....

heres another point.... it wouldn't surprise me if there are more people earning over £40,000 in the public sector than in the entire private sector, especially when you take into account pension costs.

[ezkay]

Does seem rather a lot, considering there are only 42,000 GPs in the UK.

What do politicians do, exactly?

[porca misèria]

I wonder how much the full time equivalent cost of each politician is ( the councillors I suspect will be on a lower wage as part time)....

heres another point.... it wouldn't surprise me if there are more people earning over £40,000 in the public sector than in the entire private sector, especially when you take into account pension costs.

Presumably the "politicians" are predominantly at the bottom end: parish and local councillors, on zero salary, and order-of-magnitude expenses ranging from £10 to £1000 a year.

Not like the quacks the OP mentions, on 4-5 times more pay than their peers in any other scientific or engineering discipline.

IGMC.

[dr ray]

Presumably the "politicians" are predominantly at the bottom end: parish and local councillors, on zero salary, and order-of-magnitude expenses ranging from £10 to £1000 a year.

Not like the quacks the OP mentions, on 4-5 times more pay than their peers in any other scientific or engineering discipline.

IGMC.

Thats just it. They are not on zero salaries any more. They draw a wage.

I don't think I mentioned anything about quacks although the NHS does employ huge numbers of these now too to treat "ordinary" people - see NHS blog dr for examples

Obviously the politicians ( Thatcher, Blair and the Brown family spring to mind immediately) demand real doctors for themselves for free and the rich can pay to see a real doctor.

[R K]

It's the couple of dozen at the top that need culling.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

Presumably the "politicians" are predominantly at the bottom end: parish and local councillors, on zero salary, and order-of-magnitude expenses ranging from £10 to £1000 a year.

Not like the quacks the OP mentions, on 4-5 times more pay than their peers in any other scientific or engineering discipline.

IGMC.

You take out your own appendix at 3 o'clock in the morning then.

I'm off to sell houses.

Edited July 13, 2009 by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

[Dr Elk]

You take out your own appendix at 3 o'clock in the morning then.

But if it weren't for the scientists and engineers we'd still be handing out leeches and a draught of mercury for the pox.

[Injin]

You take out your own appendix at 3 o'clock in the morning then.

I'm off to sell houses.

Always for everyone else thsi free market, ain't it?

[THE BALD MAN]

Does seem rather a lot, considering there are only 42,000 GPs in the UK.

What do politicians do, exactly?

Fill in claim forms for dubious expenses. Obtain second jobs where they have insider informnation on the industry. Say yes to everything that furthers their making more money. Take a large pension when kicked out. Employ every member of their family. Those with the least talent but most crawling ability become ministers. At the pinicale they can become an unelected prime minister

[THE BALD MAN]

You take out your own appendix at 3 o'clock in the morning then.

I'm off to sell houses.

I would not trust a GP to take out an appendix they are strictly take paracetomel and go home to bed men.

[dr ray]

I would not trust a GP to take out an appendix they are strictly take paracetomel and go home to bed men.

Very few GPs do this type of surgey now and even a simple appendicectomy is now often preceeded by high tech investigation such as CT scanning.

The skill of the GP is to recognise that you don't need need a referral and appendicectomy. Telling you to take a paracetomol is the correct management for 99% of people who attend with abdominal pain.

A quack working to a protocol doesn't have the depth of knowledge or experience to do this and this often results in referral to a hospital and inappropriate investigation.

[Executive Sadman]

Does seem rather a lot, considering there are only 42,000 GPs in the UK.

What do politicians do, exactly?

They take peoples opinions, relay them to other politicians, who then relay them again, and again, and again, until those opinions have reached such a level they are then disregarded.

[THE BALD MAN]

Very few GPs do this type of surgey now and even a simple appendicectomy is now often preceeded by high tech investigation such as CT scanning.

The skill of the GP is to recognise that you don't need need a referral and appendicectomy. Telling you to take a paracetomol is the correct management for 99% of people who attend with abdominal pain.

A quack working to a protocol doesn't have the depth of knowledge or experience to do this and this often results in referral to a hospital and inappropriate investigation.

They are very well paid now as a GP...thats another thread.

[flatnose]

But if it weren't for the scientists and engineers we'd still be handing out leeches and a draught of mercury for the pox.

[profitofdoom]

They are very well paid now as a GP...thats another thread.

When I was elected as a District Councillor in 1986 we were paid if I remember correctly about £12 per meeting and 35p a mile travel.The £12 was taxable.Considering that some meetings lasted 5 hours it probably corrsponded to what the minimum wage would have been had it existed at that time.Around 2000 the system was altered and you got about £200 a month,again taxed,regardless of the number or length of meetings.

[dr ray]

They are very well paid now as a GP...thats another thread.

I agree GPs are very well paid and none were more surprised than the GPs themselves that the government gave them such a huge wage increase.

At the time people like Milburn were spreading the story that GPs spent most of their time playing golf and at boozy drug company sponsored lunches and pretty soon they began to believe their own propaganda.

When the GP negotiators then promised to deliver a full days clinical work for more money the government agreed to it and the result was that GPs, who were already doing much more than a full days work, cut their hours and got paid more for doing less work.

With so much free time on their hands some offered to do some of the work they have given up at rates of £70-£100 per hour and the health authorities had to pay because there was no cover in the evenings and at weekends otherwise.

The other thing the government is keen to introduce into health care is performance related pay (against the advice of the medical profession). So they did, but having no idea how to measure performance they introduced proxy measurements such as the proportion of patients who get weighed or given an anti-smoking leaflet. Of course the GPs employed numpies to do this and pocketed the bonus. They also employed other GPs on a salary so kept all the bonus to themselves so many GPs now do not earn huge amounts but some of the business orientated ones who played the governments game have done very well.

There is a fear that this will be the last generation of self employed GPs as they have priced themselves out of the market and certainly the government is setting up alternative forms of primary care that cuts the GP out.

[Jessica Rabbit]

When I was elected as a District Councillor in 1986 we were paid if I remember correctly about £12 per meeting and 35p a mile travel.The £12 was taxable.Considering that some meetings lasted 5 hours it probably corrsponded to what the minimum wage would have been had it existed at that time.Around 2000 the system was altered and you got about £200 a month,again taxed,regardless of the number or length of meetings.

Local Authority Councillors get between £16k and £18k a year depending if they are in charge of a 'portfolio' or not. Of course, they are keen to give themselves a payrise, believing they are underpaid. It's only this recession that's put pay to that idea...for the time being. A lot of them continue with second jobs as a result. I used to work for them so I have first hand experience of what they are like. There's the odd one with some integrity, but most are self serving, greedy and high on the power. Pathetic. I had to resign because I was developing homicidal thoughts towards them...some nights I still dream about walking into the council chamber with an AK47...

[Dorkins]

There are 48,000 estate agents in the UK, none of whom can spell.

[SarahBell]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/13/o...sed-crime-fraud

Home secretary unveils strategy to target 30,000 criminals with more powers to seize assets and close front businesses

Linked from the main page with:

30,000 involved in organised crime

Government backs fresh drive to tackle criminal gangs after data shows surge in organised illegal activity

The numbers are pretty close...