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Doctor Dick

11th Night Bonfires

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Does anyone know how much the 11th night bonfires cost the tax payer? The Fire and Rescue Service received more than 100 calls and responded to 80 incidents last night. Also what about the clean up?

What about the 12/13th itself - numerous parades with significant police presence and again the huge clean up afterwards?

Anyone else think this is a waste of our money?

Ps. Not being sectarian here - only making a point after I read a BBC website story. £35000 was spent alone on policing the st.patricks day holylands riot - not including the clean up (or the advanced camera system being considered). £35000! Thats insane! That's possibly all the tax I'll give in a lifetime spent in a few hours. That's the sort of money that the NHS won't pay out for herceptin to save a life.

Edited by Doctor Dick

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There's nothing secterian about pointing out that rate payers money is used to fund a bunch of idiots gettring drunk round a big fire and burning flags.

Oh, I forgot, it's their 'culture', isn't it.

And as you point out, even though they spend plenty of time building them and burning them, they don't ever seem to be the ones who actually clean up the mess after, not to mention the damage to roads/nearby buildings that can occur.

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Does anyone know how much the 11th night bonfires cost the tax payer? The Fire and Rescue Service received more than 100 calls and responded to 80 incidents last night. Also what about the clean up?

What about the 12/13th itself - numerous parades with significant police presence and again the huge clean up afterwards?

Anyone else think this is a waste of our money?

Ps. Not being sectarian here - only making a point after I read a BBC website story. £35000 was spent alone on policing the st.patricks day holylands riot - not including the clean up (or the advanced camera system being considered). £35000! Thats insane! That's possibly all the tax I'll give in a lifetime spent in a few hours. That's the sort of money that the NHS won't pay out for herceptin to save a life.

Does anyone know how much the 11th night bonfires cost the tax payer? .Probably no more or less than, Halloween carnival, ST Paddies Day Celebrations, Gay Parades, Belfast Marathon and don't forget, paying to send immigrants home. The clean ups are carried out by the council who collect/have increased rates to cover the cost.

Can you prove someone died in a fire because the fire service were attending a bonfire if not the fire service would be sitting in the station playing pool and watching TV. Brilliant use of tax payers money.

Ps. Not being sectarian here Maybe not but this is how it starts. Before you know it your not allowed to celebrate anything because someone disagrees with it.

That's possibly all the tax I'll give in a lifetime spent in a few hours. probably, lets hope you don't need a few operations through out your life or never need to claim any benefits. Lets hope you don't claim you pension for to long, you wouldn't want to be a burden on the poor tax payer.

Anyway 12th Happy Holidays.

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There's nothing secterian about pointing out that rate payers money is used to fund a bunch of idiots gettring drunk round a big fire and burning flags.

Oh, I forgot, it's their 'culture', isn't it.

And as you point out, even though they spend plenty of time building them and burning them, they don't ever seem to be the ones who actually clean up the mess after, not to mention the damage to roads/nearby buildings that can occur.

No, its not sectarian at all.

Just leads to idiots ranting about how others shouldn't celebrate their culture in the way they want. :rolleyes:

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Statinstoinker - you've taken a biased approach to this topic and I hope you cease being quite so aggressive while making your point.

I didn't start this thread for a tit for tat futile argument - I simply was trying to guage people's thoughts on wasting huge amounts of tax payers money - especially during this current crisis. I'm sure you'd be rather upset to be told your mother or sister will die from breast cancer because the NHS cannot afford treatment but sure go spend the money putting out deliberately started fires that are far from save or sensible (including republican bonfires).

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Statinstoinker - you've taken a biased approach to this topic and I hope you cease being quite so aggressive while making your point.

I didn't start this thread for a tit for tat futile argument - I simply was trying to guage people's thoughts on wasting huge amounts of tax payers money - especially during this current crisis. I'm sure you'd be rather upset to be told your mother or sister will die from breast cancer because the NHS cannot afford treatment but sure go spend the money putting out deliberately started fires that are far from save or sensible (including republican bonfires).

I dont think he was being agressive doctor dick - i think he was just trying to get his point across that the same can be said for any festival or celebration.

And as for being biased, you were the one that isolated the 11th night bonfires as the problem....

But anyway, lets not argue, we've had enough of that in this country surely!

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Statinstoinker - you've taken a biased approach to this topic and I hope you cease being quite so aggressive while making your point.

I didn't start this thread for a tit for tat futile argument - I simply was trying to guage people's thoughts on wasting huge amounts of tax payers money - especially during this current crisis. I'm sure you'd be rather upset to be told your mother or sister will die from breast cancer because the NHS cannot afford treatment but sure go spend the money putting out deliberately started fires that are far from save or sensible (including republican bonfires).

Didn't think I was being aggressive. Just pointing out one mans celebration is another mans pain in the a55.

Your suggestion is, do nothing sit at home in case you cost the tax payer money, weather your catholic, prod or martian I don't think thats a biased approach.

The argument the NHS would be better off if more tax payers money was thrown at it is nonsense, it needs to be managed better with less upper management and more accountability, not everyone stay at home so we don't have to spend any of your tax payers money on celebrations, we can employ another head of department.

Edited by statinstoinker

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I dont think he was being agressive doctor dick - i think he was just trying to get his point across that the same can be said for any festival or celebration.

And as for being biased, you were the one that isolated the 11th night bonfires as the problem....

But anyway, lets not argue, we've had enough of that in this country surely!

+1

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Opening the shops in Belfast will make a difference too. There are loads of tourists about why not earn income from them?

Good point.

IMO the 12th and ST Paddy's day celebration should be exploited for all we can get out of them.

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I dont think he was being agressive doctor dick - i think he was just trying to get his point across that the same can be said for any festival or celebration.

And as for being biased, you were the one that isolated the 11th night bonfires as the problem....

But anyway, lets not argue, we've had enough of that in this country surely!

Ricky - it's the 12th of July, the day after the 11th night bonfires - I hardly think I've isolated this period of the year. I read the BBC website about firefighters being called out 80 times. If this was the 18th of March I'd be complaining about the holyland students - but its not the 18th of March.

Please don't jump to conclusions without a basis.

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Ricky - it's the 12th of July, the day after the 11th night bonfires - I hardly think I've isolated this period of the year. I read the BBC website about firefighters being called out 80 times. If this was the 18th of March I'd be complaining about the holyland students - but its not the 18th of March.

Please don't jump to conclusions without a basis.

Firefighter are there to be called out.

Each station has the capability to respond to numerous call outs every night of the year. The tax payer would not save any money, if the fire service didn't get called out, the firefighters are still in the station waiting to respond, they still cost the tax payer money.

To answer you OP "Does anyone think its a waste of money" No I don't I think if all our festivals and celebrations were managed properly the countries economy would be greatly better off.

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Does anyone know how much the 11th night bonfires cost the tax payer? .Probably no more or less than, Halloween carnival, ST Paddies Day Celebrations, Gay Parades, Belfast Marathon and don't forget, paying to send immigrants home. The clean ups are carried out by the council who collect/have increased rates to cover the cost.

Can you prove someone died in a fire because the fire service were attending a bonfire if not the fire service would be sitting in the station playing pool and watching TV. Brilliant use of tax payers money.

Ps. Not being sectarian here Maybe not but this is how it starts. Before you know it your not allowed to celebrate anything because someone disagrees with it.

That's possibly all the tax I'll give in a lifetime spent in a few hours. probably, lets hope you don't need a few operations through out your life or never need to claim any benefits. Lets hope you don't claim you pension for to long, you wouldn't want to be a burden on the poor tax payer.

Anyway 12th Happy Holidays.

I doubt that any other regular event in NI incurs the cost that 11th night bonfires do. There is a huge cleanup cost, occasional injuries, sometimes damage to roads or buildings and a taxpayer cost with every emergency service call out, whether or not they would just have been 'in the station playing pool and watching TV' as you put it.

Then there's the actual ecological cost of burning loads of rubbish because that's what I see going into a lot of bonfires.

The reason it's an issue now instead of other occasions which cost the taxpayer money is because it's happening now.

Seems like the organised bonfires with those 'eco friendly beacons' are the way to go. Much safer, less pollution, less mess, less drain on emergency services and a lot more likely to be enjoyed by tourists and other members of the community than the rubbish burning affairs with pissed up troublemakers that currently seem to predominate.

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I dont think he was being agressive doctor dick - i think he was just trying to get his point across that the same can be said for any festival or celebration.

And as for being biased, you were the one that isolated the 11th night bonfires as the problem....

But anyway, lets not argue, we've had enough of that in this country surely!

I think calling other members on this board 'idiots' is being unduly aggressive - if you can't be civil then don't bother

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An interesting read - I never even knew these bonfires were illegal....yet a few on this forum today are defending them as their culture...

A more important question would be why are they even allowed to be constructed over a number of weeks in the first place? Surely it would be cheaper to arrest those building them? Arrest anyone lighting them/drench the wood to hamper them?

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An interesting read - I never even knew these bonfires were illegal....yet a few on this forum today are defending them as their culture...

A more important question would be why are they even allowed to be constructed over a number of weeks in the first place? Surely it would be cheaper to arrest those building them? Arrest anyone lighting them/drench the wood to hamper them?

Attempting to prevent them or arresting organisers is going to be counterproductive and stir up more trouble by making a section of the community feel aggrieved - much more pragmatic to work with the community to organise something that is going to be safer, ecologically friendlier and less offensive.

Whatever you think of 11th night bonfires and their legal status, they clearly are cultural events to a large section of the population. No reason why a cultural heritage can't be fostered, made less offensive to another section of the community and even exploited to turn a tourist buck and help the local economy. Seems like an all around 'win' situation if the councils and community can co-operate.

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I agree sour mash but I believe that's a long way off. I've seen many bonfires adorned with effigies of the Pope and the Irish tricolour burned and vice versa, I've seen effigies of King William and unionist flags being burnt at similar bonfires.

Trying to get either of these 'celebrations' to become part of the Northern Irish community whenver they are themselves are instruments for divide is beyond me - ban them totally on both sides.

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imo the bonfires are just an excuse for jobless lags to go get drunk on their dole money and cause trouble.

That's coming from someone who is "from the same side" as this lot.

how many of the fire brigade call outs were to hose down someones house before it caught fire??

hate this time of year even though I'm looked at like I've got 2 heads when I suggest that my "kin" should tone it down a bit for everyone's sake

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imo the bonfires are just an excuse for jobless lags to go get drunk on their dole money and cause trouble.

That's coming from someone who is "from the same side" as this lot.

how many of the fire brigade call outs were to hose down someones house before it caught fire??

hate this time of year even though I'm looked at like I've got 2 heads when I suggest that my "kin" should tone it down a bit for everyone's sake

+1

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imo the bonfires are just an excuse for jobless lags to go get drunk on their dole money and cause trouble.

That's coming from someone who is "from the same side" as this lot.

how many of the fire brigade call outs were to hose down someones house before it caught fire??

hate this time of year even though I'm looked at like I've got 2 heads when I suggest that my "kin" should tone it down a bit for everyone's sake

As a Johnny Foreigner, I have to say I agree. I don't see anything cultural about either side waving flags or burning effigies of the Pope or the Queen. Infact, I find that kind of jingoism and sabre-rattling very disconcerting.

I do agree though that Northern Ireland should be milking marketable things like St. Patrick's Day. For such a tiny island, it's amazing that the national holiday of Ireland is celebrated by millions of people from Tokyo to Texas. How many other countries in the world have that kind of goodwill and direct lines of communication to the US president? If you ask me, Protestants should be taking St. Patrick's Day back as a Christian holiday.

I've only lived here for a little while, so maybe I don't understand the issues.

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I was just looking at the original thread on NI. Nov 2006. 3 years of keeping hoping for the best and fearing the worst.

Battling against VI like HC and the likes of Hermy.

It would be a pity if our forum - which has avoided religion and differences- should come to grief on such a subject.

There will always be cultural differences but working together we can at least agree to differ and tolerate each other.

Not trying to preach - just don't want bad feelings on what is a very good natured forum.

+1

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I was just looking at the original thread on NI. Nov 2006. 3 years of keeping hoping for the best and fearing the worst.

Battling against VI like HC and the likes of Hermy.

It would be a pity if our forum - which has avoided religion and differences- should come to grief on such a subject.

There will always be cultural differences but working together we can at least agree to differ and tolerate each other.

Not trying to preach - just don't want bad feelings on what is a very good natured forum.

well said

its ALL b=ll=cks anyway

and I'd just like to add that football is gay :lol:

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