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Tim Miller

A Glimpse At Our Future?

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Are we missing the big picture, we need plentiful affordable shelter, food and water. 1 million starving, shortages of water and housing costing a kings ransom. These are basic human needs, what should be done about it?

READ ON

Fifty years ago, Bhopal had a population of 100,000; today it is 1.8 million and rising. In a good year the city might get more than a metre of rain between July and September, but last year the figure was only 700mm.

Neighbours of the Malviyas cluster around the hole in the street outside the house where Jeevan Malviya lived with his wife, Gyarasi, their son, Raju, 18, and their four other children. It was the evening of 13 May, said Sunita Bai, a female relative: a local man, Dinu, thought that the family had blocked the pipe to stop the water flowing further down the hill.

He and a group of friends slapped Gyarasi, 35; Raju tried to stop him. Someone produced a sword and, a few minutes later, the Malviyas lay dying. "We were too afraid to do anything," said a woman who gave her name as Shanno. "Dinu didn't want them to take any water. He wanted it for himself."

Everyone stood around, looking down at the hole in the ground. The pipe is dry. "It is a terrible thing, that people should be fighting over water," said Shanno.

The whole article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/1...r-supply-bhopal

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Guest X-QUORK

Yes, there are too many people, too much demand for limited resources. It will all end in tears before bedtime.

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Yes, there are too many people, too much demand for limited resources. It will all end in tears before bedtime.

Not true, we have a near unlimited pool of resources.

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Guest anorthosite
Not true, we have a near unlimited pool of resources.

Not for making mobile phones we don't ;)

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Fusion?

Are you talking about the type of "cold fusion" the French have pioneered, no radioactive waste, just water and hydrogen? I will not pretend to be well up on this subject, but why is our government not looking at using this technology instead of the usual nuclear and coal. types of power plants?

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Are you talking about the type of "cold fusion" the French have pioneered, no radioactive waste, just water and hydrogen? I will not pretend to be well up on this subject, but why is our government not looking at using this technology instead of the usual nuclear and coal. types of power plants?

Yes, although it is still a long way off, if indeed it will ever become possible on a large scale. I couldn't imagine what else might constitute the almost limitless supply of resource Cells suggested we already have.

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Yes, although it is still a long way off, if indeed it will ever become possible on a large scale. I couldn't imagine what else might constitute the almost limitless supply of resource Cells suggested we already have.

It's absolutely fascinating, how long is a long way off?

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It's absolutely fascinating, how long is a long way off?

How long is a piece of string? I think current thinking puts it at about 40 years off, although they've been saying that for about 40 years already. The world needs to consider spending much more in developing fusion technology, it might be our only hope.

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How long is a piece of string? I think current thinking puts it at about 40 years off, although they've been saying that for about 40 years already. The world needs to consider spending much more in developing fusion technology, it might be our only hope.

My God, I thought you would say 5 to 10 years! You would have thought the EU you find the beer vouchers for this. As you say it might be our only hope. I can't help thinking if it was to win a war that these technologies would be up and running in 5 years or less. As usual it's priorities. Is it still theory or did the French actually succeed in practice?

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How long is a piece of string? I think current thinking puts it at about 40 years off, although they've been saying that for about 40 years already. The world needs to consider spending much more in developing fusion technology, it might be our only hope.

Fusion will likely never be commercially viable on earth.

However we already have a limitless source of energy in the form of solar panels. The only problem is that it is more expensive than fossil fuels but unlike fossil fuels it is near infinite. Solar cells have advanced tremendously over the last 20 years (mostly thanks to Germany subsidising them greatly). They have gone from $6 a peak watt to 90 cents a peak watt.

If the same improvement over the last 20 years happens again over the next 20 years we have solar producing electricity cheaper than coal/gas.

Anyway, I wasn’t specifically referring to energy. We do not have a shortage of anything. (Well we have a shortage of good government and good rights which give the illusion of shortages. Think people staring in Zimbabwe, it isn’t that they have a shortage of land or water but that everything is corrupt so you cannot build or make anything.)

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Fusion will likely never be commercially viable on earth.

However we already have a limitless source of energy in the form of solar panels. The only problem is that it is more expensive than fossil fuels but unlike fossil fuels it is near infinite. Solar cells have advanced tremendously over the last 20 years (mostly thanks to Germany subsidising them greatly). They have gone from $6 a peak watt to 90 cents a peak watt.

If the same improvement over the last 20 years happens again over the next 20 years we have solar producing electricity cheaper than coal/gas.

Anyway, I wasn’t specifically referring to energy. We do not have a shortage of anything. (Well we have a shortage of good government and good rights which give the illusion of shortages. Think people staring in Zimbabwe, it isn’t that they have a shortage of land or water but that everything is corrupt so you cannot build or make anything.)

I hear what you say, however there has been talk of water shortages other than in third world countries, it's even been suggested wars could start of the shortage of water. I am including too much water taken from up stream / river so the countries down stream / river run short. Your comments?

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I hear what you say, however there has been talk of water shortages other than in third world countries, it's even been suggested wars could start of the shortage of water. I am including too much water taken from up stream / river so the countries down stream / river run short. Your comments?

I completely missed my first question, Why is cold fusion not commercially viable on earth if it will not take for ever to write a reply?

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Fusion will likely never be commercially viable on earth.

However we already have a limitless source of energy in the form of solar panels. The only problem is that it is more expensive than fossil fuels but unlike fossil fuels it is near infinite. Solar cells have advanced tremendously over the last 20 years (mostly thanks to Germany subsidising them greatly). They have gone from $6 a peak watt to 90 cents a peak watt.

If the same improvement over the last 20 years happens again over the next 20 years we have solar producing electricity cheaper than coal/gas.

Anyway, I wasn’t specifically referring to energy. We do not have a shortage of anything. (Well we have a shortage of good government and good rights which give the illusion of shortages. Think people staring in Zimbabwe, it isn’t that they have a shortage of land or water but that everything is corrupt so you cannot build or make anything.)

I completely missed my first question, Why is cold fusion not commercially viable on earth if it will not take for ever to write a reply?

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Guest redwine
My God, I thought you would say 5 to 10 years! You would have thought the EU you find the beer vouchers for this. As you say it might be our only hope. I can't help thinking if it was to win a war that these technologies would be up and running in 5 years or less. As usual it's priorities. Is it still theory or did the French actually succeed in practice?

The French have two new nuclear reactors

The first one is the EPR (european pressurized reactor ) which will be running in 2012

The second and most promising is the ITER (international thermonuclear experimental reactor )

Work has already started at Cadarache in the region of Provence Cotè D'Azur it won't be finished until 2020

The French believe that this reactor will provide inexhaustible electricity

Hope that this answers your question

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The French have two new nuclear reactors

The first one is the EPR (european pressurized reactor ) which will be running in 2012

The second and most promising is the ITER (international thermonuclear experimental reactor )

Work has already started at Cadarache in the region of Provence Cotè D'Azur it won't be finished until 2020

The French believe that this reactor will provide inexhaustible electricity

Hope that this answers your question

Cheers, but is the ITER reactor a cold fusion process giving hydrogen and water as the only waste?

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Cheers, but is the ITER reactor a cold fusion process giving hydrogen and water as the only waste?

Tim, if you're interested in the subject, I'd suggest watching "Can we make a star on earth?" by Prof. Brian Cox. It's broken down into six 10 minute chunks on Youtube...here's the first part. Prof Cox is a very smart young guy and the program is extremely well made IMO. Give it a try.

Just to add, the program is concerned with nuclear fusion, not cold fusion...which as far as I know has not been very successful.

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Tim, if you're interested in the subject, I'd suggest watching "Can we make a star on earth?" by Prof. Brian Cox. It's broken down into six 10 minute chunks on Youtube...here's the first part. Prof Cox is a very smart young guy and the program is extremely well made IMO. Give it a try.

Just to add, the program is concerned with nuclear fusion, not cold fusion...which as far as I know has not been very successful.

Thanks, I will watch it now, your a star!

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I hear what you say, however there has been talk of water shortages other than in third world countries, it's even been suggested wars could start of the shortage of water. I am including too much water taken from up stream / river so the countries down stream / river run short. Your comments?

there is no water shortage, if there was we would have a global water trade.

if you had a shortage you would build a pipe from an area of excess to an area of shortage.

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Cheers, but is the ITER reactor a cold fusion process giving hydrogen and water as the only waste?

No its a plasma reactor the French believe that they can burn plasma in a new process that the plasma never burns out, it lasts forever

They are also experimenting with new energy at the "organisation europèene pour la recherche Nuclèaire " or the CERN

The French and Swiss have built an underground 27 km circular tunnel a 100 meters below Genevea and the French side

The world wide web was invented at the CERN it is an international projet its not far from where i live well worth a visit if you are interested in the "nuclear"

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No its a plasma reactor the French believe that they can burn plasma in a new process that the plasma never burns out, it lasts forever

They are also experimenting with new energy at the "organisation europèene pour la recherche Nuclèaire " or the CERN

The French and Swiss have built an underground 27 km circular tunnel a 100 meters below Genevea and the French side

The world wide web was invented at the CERN it is an international projet its not far from where i live well worth a visit if you are interested in the "nuclear"

Current nuclear power is dirt cheap, the fuel only costs about 0.1 pence per kWh. The other 2.9p per kWh is the cost of the building, the people, the maintenance, the tax, etc.

So a fusion reactor over a fission reactor will save 0.1p per kWh. That is assuming everything else is equal. However we know a fusion reactor is a lot more complicated so the cost is likely to be higher.

Hence we will not see commercially viable fusion power for a very long time.

Plus we have another stumbling block for fusion power on earth.

We can build a star in a box and turn the heat from it into electricity or…. we can use the free star known as our sun and turn the heat from that into electricity.

Why the hell would we build one in a box when we have a free one to harness?

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Fusion will likely never be commercially viable on earth.

However we already have a limitless source of energy in the form of solar panels. The only problem is that it is more expensive than fossil fuels but unlike fossil fuels it is near infinite. Solar cells have advanced tremendously over the last 20 years (mostly thanks to Germany subsidising them greatly). They have gone from $6 a peak watt to 90 cents a peak watt.

If the same improvement over the last 20 years happens again over the next 20 years we have solar producing electricity cheaper than coal/gas.

Anyway, I wasn’t specifically referring to energy. We do not have a shortage of anything. (Well we have a shortage of good government and good rights which give the illusion of shortages. Think people staring in Zimbabwe, it isn’t that they have a shortage of land or water but that everything is corrupt so you cannot build or make anything.)

Photovoltaic is not the way forward. Power stations already in consturction (as large scale experiments) are already in production in desert regions. These will use various methods to concentrate solar energy in order to produce steam, to drive conventional turbines. Power will then be transmitted along high voltage DC lines (not AC) to where it is needed.

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No its a plasma reactor the French believe that they can burn plasma in a new process that the plasma never burns out, it lasts forever

They are also experimenting with new energy at the "organisation europèene pour la recherche Nuclèaire " or the CERN

The French and Swiss have built an underground 27 km circular tunnel a 100 meters below Genevea and the French side

The world wide web was invented at the CERN it is an international projet its not far from where i live well worth a visit if you are interested in the "nuclear"

I know about the CERN project, I know it's the biggest in the world, the Yanks have one also.

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Photovoltaic is not the way forward. Power stations already in consturction (as large scale experiments) are already in production in desert regions. These will use various methods to concentrate solar energy in order to produce steam, to drive conventional turbines. Power will then be transmitted along high voltage DC lines (not AC) to where it is needed.

I don’t agree.

For a renewable to be successful the process to make it, to install it and to run it needs to be as light on human labour as that is the major cost.

Solar PV cells are manufactured by machines for the most part, they are transported easily to the location, they are installed easily and they run with little human maintenance etc.

Other renewable energy sources such as wind or concentrated solar have too much humans time involved which makes them expensive but more importantly it means there is not as much scope to reduce costs.

I think in the long run, PV will win the renewable race just because you can make the process extremely automated.

If you want a comparison, think the price of flash memory vs the price of building a house. The cost of building a house hasn’t really gone down, while the cost of producing flash memory goes down practically every year. One requires quite a lot of human labour, the other almost none.

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Current nuclear power is dirt cheap, the fuel only costs about 0.1 pence per kWh. The other 2.9p per kWh is the cost of the building, the people, the maintenance, the tax, etc.

So a fusion reactor over a fission reactor will save 0.1p per kWh. That is assuming everything else is equal. However we know a fusion reactor is a lot more complicated so the cost is likely to be higher.

Do you have any reference for those figures? I was under the impression that nuclear fission is anything but cheap when build costs, waste management and decommissioning costs are taken into account, as they surely must be.

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