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Johnny Storm

Swine Flu Vacination

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The swine flu vaccine will be rushed out with little investigation into possible long-term side effects.

So no.

To be fair, they have been making these sorts of vaccines for years in this particular way without side effects, so its not so much the risk of the vaccine. What does concern me is the mass panic that seems to be ensuing as a result of this, it just flu for heavens sake and yes a few old people and others with medical conditions might end up dying, but the sad fact is that that this happened throughout history.

Without sounding horribly Darwinian, there is an element of survival of the fittest in this and ironically if we keep propping up the weak we eventually weaken the whole human race at which point some killer bug really will wipe us all out. We have seen this effect arise with Drug Resistant MRSA which is entirely a human creation - if we hadn't gone about spraying antibiotics around like Smarties, this problem would never have arisen. I am less sure of the impact of vaccines on the bugs/viruses themselves, but if the population demonstrates immunity to one version of the virus, you can bet your bottom Dollar the virus will adapt and evolve.

A lot of the problem with the human race is that we spend a lot of time trying to preserve our own selves at the expense of future generations. Yes, let's keep granny alive 2 years longer, but in the process we'll create a new superbug that will wipe out the children.

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If there was something clearcut and with a high fatality rate, like smallpox, going around I would go along and get a vaccination.

For everything else I regard catching it as a necessary work-out for my immune system. Having been doing this since forever when I do get something I usually have it milder and shorter than everybody else.

So no flu vaccine for me.

The one exception is that I do take flu tablets when I have it as they allow me to carry on as normal when otherwise I would be led in bed.

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To be fair, they have been making these sorts of vaccines for years in this particular way without side effects, so its not so much the risk of the vaccine. What does concern me is the mass panic that seems to be ensuing as a result of this, it just flu for heavens sake and yes a few old people and others with medical conditions might end up dying, but the sad fact is that that this happened throughout history.

Without sounding horribly Darwinian, there is an element of survival of the fittest in this and ironically if we keep propping up the weak we eventually weaken the whole human race at which point some killer bug really will wipe us all out. We have seen this effect arise with Drug Resistant MRSA which is entirely a human creation - if we hadn't gone about spraying antibiotics around like Smarties, this problem would never have arisen. I am less sure of the impact of vaccines on the bugs/viruses themselves, but if the population demonstrates immunity to one version of the virus, you can bet your bottom Dollar the virus will adapt and evolve.

A lot of the problem with the human race is that we spend a lot of time trying to preserve our own selves at the expense of future generations. Yes, let's keep granny alive 2 years longer, but in the process we'll create a new superbug that will wipe out the children.

The effect of the flu virus is fairly random it seems so I'm not sure the Darwinian principle applies. Its like saying the Darwinian principle applied to the troops who ran across no-mans-land against machine gun fire during WW1.

Where the Darwinian principle might apply is in making the correct choice between using available methods to reduce or prevent the effects of infection or not.

Looking at the result of the survey it seems that a large number of people are allowing their gut feeling and prejudices to influence what could be a life or death choice to take the vaccine or not.

Now I am the first to admit that I think our present government is taking actions which are detrimental to the population in much of what it does, not least in the management of the economy and currency but I really can't see that the government and the people in the NHS at all levels would seek to actively cull their fellow humans by administering a vaccine which would do more harm than good.

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The effect of the flu virus is fairly random it seems so I'm not sure the Darwinian principle applies. Its like saying the Darwinian principle applied to the troops who ran across no-mans-land against machine gun fire during WW1.

Where the Darwinian principle might apply is in making the correct choice between using available methods to reduce or prevent the effects of infection or not.

Looking at the result of the survey it seems that a large number of people are allowing their gut feeling and prejudices to influence what could be a life or death choice to take the vaccine or not.

Now I am the first to admit that I think our present government is taking actions which are detrimental to the population in much of what it does, not least in the management of the economy and currency but I really can't see that the government and the people in the NHS at all levels would seek to actively cull their fellow humans by administering a vaccine which would do more harm than good.

Not as random as you think, apparently its only really been killing people with Body Mass Indexes over 40. It seems to have taken a dislike to lard arses for some reason.

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The one exception is that I do take flu tablets when I have it as they allow me to carry on as normal when otherwise I would be led in bed.

You sound like you're 'used' to having flu. Having flu should be a rare event, which makes me wonder whether you've actually had heavy colds. Getting out of bed and 'carrying on as normal' with real flu is almost impossible (I'm mid 30s and have had it twice in my entire life)

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The effect of the flu virus is fairly random it seems so I'm not sure the Darwinian principle applies. Its like saying the Darwinian principle applied to the troops who ran across no-mans-land against machine gun fire during WW1.

Where the Darwinian principle might apply is in making the correct choice between using available methods to reduce or prevent the effects of infection or not.

Looking at the result of the survey it seems that a large number of people are allowing their gut feeling and prejudices to influence what could be a life or death choice to take the vaccine or not.

Now I am the first to admit that I think our present government is taking actions which are detrimental to the population in much of what it does, not least in the management of the economy and currency but I really can't see that the government and the people in the NHS at all levels would seek to actively cull their fellow humans by administering a vaccine which would do more harm than good.

Perhaps it's a case of - It's not what you say, it's the way you say it.

Case 1) Government announces that flu vaccination will be available to anyone who wants one.

Case 2) Government announces that the whole population will be vaccinated.

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I wonder if, in the spirit of public spending cuts, to announce this measure they'll use that footage from Torchwood which the BBC have luckily prepared for just such an event,

Peter.

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I already get the winter Flu vaccine as routine and had the Pneumonia jab last year.

Complications arising from a common cold resulted in my having to spend 10 days on an acute respiratory ward recently and I believe a bout of Flu could possibly kill me so I'll be going for the jab ASAP.

The issue of potential side effects is not a consideration for me.

However, all you fit and healthy types, without any underlying health conditions, it's your duty to contract the virus and build up natural immunity in the herd.

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Not as random as you think, apparently its only really been killing people with Body Mass Indexes over 40. It seems to have taken a dislike to lard arses for some reason.

I posted on this yesterday and its been merged with the Swine flu thread and gone OT.

The fat people revelation is a non-story. They are not saying fat people get the flu more but that they get iller with it. Well that applies to a broken leg, heart attack and almost every other disease you can think of.

In fact there is a feeling that it is the young and healthy who get Mexican flu more readily, perhaps because of cross immunity from an earlier flu infection in the elderly or maybe because the more vigorous inflammatory reaction (not immune reaction) in the young actually causes the problem. In the 1918 outbreak the young virtually dropped dead and witnesses said they coughed up blood and froth suggesting acute pulmonary oedema (wet lung or "drowning") which to me suggests a very sudden non-specific inflammatory response rather than secondary bacterial infection which is often the cause of death in normal flu or measles etc

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I already get the winter Flu vaccine as routine and had the Pneumonia jab last year.

Complications arising from a common cold resulted in my having to spend 10 days on an acute respiratory ward recently and I believe a bout of Flu could possibly kill me so I'll be going for the jab ASAP.

The issue of potential side effects is not a consideration for me.

However, all you fit and healthy types, without any underlying health conditions, it's your duty to contract the virus and build up natural immunity in the herd.

Have you ever considered why you are so prone to colds/flu?

Quite possibly it's all those jabs depressing you immune system...

I know of a few people who took the flu jab for the first time and got the flu right afterwards.

They never had the flu ever before in their lives.

Needless to say they never took the flu jab again after that experience...

The real and ONLY solution for someone with an already depressed immune system is strengthening their immune system.

Obviously that's requires more effort than just getting a jab (like eating healthily and exercising), but a jab only gives you the illusion of a solution anyway.

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You sound like you're 'used' to having flu. Having flu should be a rare event, which makes me wonder whether you've actually had heavy colds. Getting out of bed and 'carrying on as normal' with real flu is almost impossible (I'm mid 30s and have had it twice in my entire life)

I did mean proper flu and agree that there is no chance of doing anything (including watching TV because of the headache) for the first couple of days. If you do manage to struggle around to eventually make a cup of tea it will be stone cold by the time you can manage to drink it.

After that I can get moving as long as I'm on the two pills every two hours.

I don't have it that often, every 3-5 years or so. That's the only time I've been off sick because it's physically impossible to get to work.

Although I did have something milder and flu-like recently, presumably the pig stuff, and after a bad night could get going with the tablets.

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"What's the point in giving flu jabs to old people? It's like giving new shoes to a paraplegic."

League of Gentlemen, just heard it on listen again.

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It's alright if there's not enough vaccines, I have 2 years worth of tinned food, medicines and unopened sterile DVD copies of the documentary "Outbreak" starring Dustin Hoffman.

Well prepared already. Are You?

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To be fair, they have been making these sorts of vaccines for years in this particular way without side effects, so its not so much the risk of the vaccine. What does concern me is the mass panic that seems to be ensuing as a result of this, it just flu for heavens sake and yes a few old people and others with medical conditions might end up dying, but the sad fact is that that this happened throughout history.

Without sounding horribly Darwinian, there is an element of survival of the fittest in this and ironically if we keep propping up the weak we eventually weaken the whole human race at which point some killer bug really will wipe us all out. We have seen this effect arise with Drug Resistant MRSA which is entirely a human creation - if we hadn't gone about spraying antibiotics around like Smarties, this problem would never have arisen. I am less sure of the impact of vaccines on the bugs/viruses themselves, but if the population demonstrates immunity to one version of the virus, you can bet your bottom Dollar the virus will adapt and evolve.

A lot of the problem with the human race is that we spend a lot of time trying to preserve our own selves at the expense of future generations. Yes, let's keep granny alive 2 years longer, but in the process we'll create a new superbug that will wipe out the children.

Who's to say you aren't already one of the weakest?

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Well the pig flue seems not to be very lethal so I think I will pass on the jab.

I have never had normal flu so hopefully I won’t catch this flu.

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Guest anorthosite
Another consistancy gaff by the moderating team.

Poll re swine flue moved to off topic, but the actual topic about it left in house prices section. :blink:

Ah well, we get what we pay for I suppose ;)

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Well the pig flue seems not to be very lethal so I think I will pass on the jab.

I have never had normal flu so hopefully I won’t catch this flu.

Having had flu before is generally beneficial towards not getting in the future, not the other way around.

not sure how helpful it is with a totally new strain tho.........

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I regularly have a flu jab. It appears to have been effective, although how can you really tell yourself?

Those who ran away from the MMR vacine helped disease to grow and spread throughout the population more than it should have. So I disapprove of those who will oh so bravely, and loudly proclaiming their superiority, avoid the swine flu vaccine and help keep the thing alive in the population. Resulting no doubt in other people's deaths.

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I regularly have a flu jab. It appears to have been effective, although how can you really tell yourself?

I regularly dont have a flu jab, and that appears to have been effective for me.

Those who ran away from the MMR vacine helped disease to grow and spread throughout the population more than it should have. So I disapprove of those who will oh so bravely, and loudly proclaiming their superiority, avoid the swine flu vaccine and help keep the thing alive in the population. Resulting no doubt in other people's deaths.

Are these other people those that also refused the jab?

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I have only had proper flu once and believe me anyone who thinks they can get out of bed or even walk with it has to think again...you can not do a bloody thing..

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I have only had proper flu once and believe me anyone who thinks they can get out of bed or even walk with it has to think again...you can not do a bloody thing..

Ditto. I am 31 and have had flu once. If you get flu regularly there is clearly something wrong with your immune system. Don't need to be a doc to work that out.

Of course - I could kop it tomorrow from flying pig flu. Hey ho. Cest La vie.

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