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Spot Of Bother Over At Foxtons

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Excellent news... there are so many dodgy agencies out there... Foxtons are, by virtue of being one of the biggest, one of the most prolific. They rip off LLs and tenants in equal measure and IMPO have played a significant part in pulling up house prices and altering the market with their ridiculous over-valuations.

However, I would like more made of how unfair ASTs are on tenants and because of the standard 12 month reset lay the ground for this type of behaviour.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...High-Court.html

One unhappy Foxtons customer was former Blue Peter presenter Konnie Huq, who was charged 11pc of her first year's rent by Foxtons for finding her a tenant and then charged another 11pc up front when the tenant wanted to renew their contract.

Miss Huq told The Daily Telegraph yesterday that the terms imposed by Foxtons were "preposterous" and added she was delighted with the ruling. "It's brilliant for landlords," she said, a sentiment echoed by the NLA.

John Socha, NLA vice-chairman said the judgment "sent a direct message to letting agents that this lack of transparency must stop."

The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) brought the case against Foxtons last year following a flurry of complaints about terms in its contracts with landlords, which included having to pay full commission fees of 2.5pc to Foxtons if the home was sold to the tenant.

Any contract 'experts' out there?

Are BTL classed as a 'consumer' rather than commercial business?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...High-Court.html

Any contract 'experts' out there?

Are BTL classed as a 'consumer' rather than commercial business?

I'm as close to a contract expert as I think I've seen on HPC, being a lawyer who advises on commercial disputes, although tnot property-related ones.

There is the unfair contract terms act (UCTA) and the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations (UTCCR). This case was brought under the UTCCR.

Basically, under the UTCCR , a consumer is any individual who is acting outside his trade, business or profession.

Under UCTA, an individual or a company is a consumer if the transaction is not integral to their business or a regularly feature.

In UCTA, a business can be a consumer but in the UTCCR it can't.

A property developer flogging a flat would not be a consumer for either of the two (flogging flats is his business);

A cleaning company (perhaps even an estate agent) flogging a flat could be a consumer for UCTA (flogging its own flats is not its business) but could not be for UTCCR (it's a company);

A tv presenter flogging a flat could be a consumer for both UCTA and UTCCR (she's an individual and flogging flats is not her business).

There was a case in which a wealthy lawyer and an engineer who made about 30 forex transactions were found to be acting as consumers despite the number, value and complexity of the transactions, just because it was for their private rather than business purposes. You might say that they used these instruments as we might use a savings account or post office bond. There is no reason why the same reasoning should not apply to those engaged in flat-flogging as a sideline.

The OFT report is here

At this point I can report that Autotrader won't let my father-in-law, whose hobby is buying second cars, driving them for a bit and then selling them to buy a new one (mostly at a loss), advertise as a private seller, purely because of how much he buys and sells, even though it's clearly not a business.

gusset

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I'm as close to a contract expert as I think I've seen on HPC, being a lawyer who advises on commercial disputes, although tnot property-related ones.

There is the unfair contract terms act (UCTA) and the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations (UTCCR). This case was brought under the UTCCR.

Basically, under the UTCCR , a consumer is any individual who is acting outside his trade, business or profession.

Under UCTA, an individual or a company is a consumer if the transaction is not integral to their business or a regularly feature.

In UCTA, a business can be a consumer but in the UTCCR it can't.

A property developer flogging a flat would not be a consumer for either of the two (flogging flats is his business);

A cleaning company (perhaps even an estate agent) flogging a flat could be a consumer for UCTA (flogging its own flats is not its business) but could not be for UTCCR (it's a company);

A tv presenter flogging a flat could be a consumer for both UCTA and UTCCR (she's an individual and flogging flats is not her business).

There w

as a case in which a wealthy lawyer and an engineer who made about 30 forex transactions were found to be acting as consumers despite the number, value and complexity of the transactions, just because it was for their private rather than business purposes. You might say that they used these instruments as we might use a savings account or post office bond. There is no reason why the same reasoning should not apply to those engaged in flat-flogging as a sideline.

The OFT report is here

At this point I can report that Autotrader won't let my father-in-law, whose hobby is buying second cars, driving them for a bit and then selling them to buy a new one (mostly at a loss), advertise as a private seller, purely because of how much he buys and sells, even though it's clearly not a business.

gusset

thanks

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Interesting post - thanks!

I had wondered the same.

And I still do, to an extent!

At what point does a TV presenter acting outwith their trade by letting property become a TV presenter and property owner acting within their second trade of letting property?

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