Don't Expect A Pension From Ibm (or Anyone Else)

[Wait & See]

IBM Will Close Scheme

Why is it that people still think it's worth paying into ANY pension scheme?

I always laugh when people talk about their pensions and how they pay £120 a month towards them.

They must think they'll snuff it at 65years and 62 days. The amount they receive would be more than ample for this period, I would hope.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Wait & See

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

If my generation and beyond are going to need to sell recycled nuts and bolts by the roadside in order to eat later in life, may I respectfully request from our globalist idiot masters that we be allowed a laissez faire attitude to unlicensed street vending to avoid starvation. Just as a small recompense for unravelling civilisation with their greed.

[Agentimmo]

Indeed.

I pay into the govt pension scheme here in France. No choice.

In 25-30yrs time, when I retire, I expect to receive buttons. Or thereabouts.

The rest of my cash is being slowly piled up in various "safe" investments. (As safe as one can find these days). Low interest, low risk type life assurance and the like.

I reckon that come retirement I'll manage my own money, thank you very much. And when I go ga-ga, my kids will hopefully help me manage it. If they don't , then I won't be aware of being fleeced anyway....and I'd rather my own kids did the fleecing than some spiv City wide-boy.

[silver surfer]

The bottom line is that virtually everyone today who is younger than about 35, plus an awful lot of of people younger than about 55, face the absolute certainty of working well into their 70's.

It really is that simple.

[kingsgate]

If my generation and beyond are going to need to sell recycled nuts and bolts by the roadside in order to eat later in life, may I respectfully request from our globalist idiot masters that we be allowed a laissez faire attitude to unlicensed street vending to avoid starvation. Just as a small recompense for unravelling civilisation with their greed.

The whole idea of companies providing pensions doesn't make sense anyway. Maybe it did in the days when most people:

a) worked for only one or two companies throughout their working lives

died not too long after they retired

I remember back when I started working (around 1991) and everyone seemed to be wibbling on about pensions and company schemes, I thought then and I think now that they are an anachronism.

People are now likely to switch jobs and careers many times - the days of people working for 30 years at the factory and then retiring after being given a gold clock, a book on gardening and a pension from the factory owner have gone.

Maybe everyone should have their own longterm savings account into which a generous employer could choose to pay.

Its better if people sort their own pensions out if they want to have one. That way, the pension is held by an organistion whose raison d'etre is looking after pension contributions

That way, you avoid the problems that occur when:

a) businesses go bust, leaving pensioners stranded

big companies that have shrunk drastically in size become unviable due to their huge pension liabilities

c) company directors defraud their own pension scheme

etc.

[dammfoolman]

I work for an American printer company that makes lots and lots of money selling printers cheap but forces users to purchase "expensive" replacements such as ink and paper. The US version of our final salary scheme was closed last year. Zero consultation citing economic conditions.

Coming soon to the UK in the not too distant future now our main competitor has opened the door! :angry:

[Si1]

it just depends

my dad paid into a defined contrib scheme his whole life and retired in 2000 with a similar pension to his contemporaries with private company defined benefit schemes

Nowadays, lower charging pensions are available so defined contrib schemes give every opportunity of giving you a decent income some time after you're 60 which isn't bad

If you carry on moaning and paying mopney into sh*tty cash accounts then you will be poor when you retire and blame everyone else for your poverty when in reality your ignorant prejudiced rantings have pushed you away from making the most of perfectly decent pension products that exist

I would agree that the subsidy of public sector pensions is far far toomuch and represents an injustice, however this is not IBM's fault and if they wish to change the pension they offer then why should that be better or worse than the previous situation.

Put it another way, if stockmarkets boom off the back of a post-global-recession globalised boom, with SE Asia and emerging markets pulling the world up by its bootstraps, you'll be the first to complain that your cr*ppy cash accounts haven't kept up.

[Trampa501]

The bottom line is that virtually everyone today who is younger than about 35, plus an awful lot of of people younger than about 55, face the absolute certainty of working well into their 70's.

It really is that simple.

Not really. You may be given stupid interviews down the job centre (and there may be no real dole paid out) but once you get past 40 in a lot of sectors you're no longer considered for jobs.

[abharrisson]

it just depends

my dad paid into a defined contrib scheme his whole life and retired in 2000 with a similar pension to his contemporaries with private company defined benefit schemes

Nowadays, lower charging pensions are available so defined contrib schemes give every opportunity of giving you a decent income some time after you're 60 which isn't bad

If you carry on moaning and paying mopney into sh*tty cash accounts then you will be poor when you retire and blame everyone else for your poverty when in reality your ignorant prejudiced rantings have pushed you away from making the most of perfectly decent pension products that exist

I would agree that the subsidy of public sector pensions is far far toomuch and represents an injustice, however this is not IBM's fault and if they wish to change the pension they offer then why should that be better or worse than the previous situation.

Put it another way, if stockmarkets boom off the back of a post-global-recession globalised boom, with SE Asia and emerging markets pulling the world up by its bootstraps, you'll be the first to complain that your cr*ppy cash accounts haven't kept up.

I'd agree with you that given a choice of saving without tax benefit or going into a structured money purchase plan then the latter is going to be better, after all you get the tax breaks and normally some company contribution even if pension managers then conspire to errode the benefit through fees.

My personal view is that those in non-defined benefit programmes realise that their savings level is frankly insufficient to give them the benefit they hope for, but they can't do more... they look enviously at public sector workers who will have the security of a defined benefit pension and rightly I suspect wonder why they all still have this benefit.

Governement "changes" to prviate sector pensions has been partially to blame for the huge gulf that now exists between the public and private sector.

I do believe it will change, simply becasue the govt cannot afford to continue like this... then everyone will be in the same boat of having an insufficient pension.

[Garry AKA Pod]

I work for an American printer company that makes lots and lots of money selling printers cheap but forces users to purchase "expensive" replacements such as ink and paper. The US version of our final salary scheme was closed last year. Zero consultation citing economic conditions.

Coming soon to the UK in the not too distant future now our main competitor has opened the door! :angry:

Lexmark?

[interestrateripoff]

When are they going to start cutting what they are paying clearly they haven't got the money.

I sense a revolt coming from the younger generation.

[Prof]

Naaaaah ! Pensions are a waste of time, my pwoperdy is my pension. You can`t go wrong with bricks and mortar (unless you get the cement/sand mix wrong).

[aa3]

Basically its just a highly sophisticated and 'official' version of a very old scam. You pay someone a small amount of money today, and they promise to pay you a very large amount of money in the future.

When that future comes you and millions of others find out all of the money is gone. The managers of the funds and the managers of the companies they invest in have all been paying themselves incredible salaries that have eaten up all the money.

The 'investments' the pension funds made really only went up because all the pensions and mutual funds were buying the same pieces of paper as money flowed into their funds over the decades. Once the money is net flowing out we'll find the true market value of them.

[sammysnake]

Yeh I stopped paying into a pension some time ago once I understood the implications of paying some ill educated greedy

**** to invest wisely on my behalf for my future

Downside, I compound the real serious pensions crisis that awaits:ph34r:

upside, the government may take notice that there's no trust left in any financial institute in this corrupt little nation UK

[stormymonday_2011]

When are they going to start cutting what they are paying clearly they haven't got the money.

I sense a revolt coming from the younger generation.

Its a company scheme

So unless they are an IBM shareholders what has f*ck has it got to do with the 'younger generation'.

[Mickey]

What the hell else is a bod to do regarding pension provision? Damned if I am working to 70.

Bit concerned that my final salary scheme may never pay out. Cash savings would suffer from erosion due to inflation. Need asset based income that is rooted in the real economy when I retire. BTL empire it is then .

Best think about saving up to purchase that holiday let in a few years time .

[scottbeard]

Why is it that people still think it's worth paying into ANY pension scheme?

Because the money is not taxed when paid in, up to certain limits 25% of it is currently not taxed when paid out, and most schemes are at least part-funded by the employer.

Final salary pensions have the Pension Protection fund or government (depending upon the scheme) as a safety net. Insurance companies have their own compensation scheme. Yes if your company goes bump you won't get your full pension but you won't lose it all either.

IBM is going to stop more pension building up, but the pensions accrued to date are still likely to be paid.

Pensions have advantages and disadvantages, as with any investment, but I don't see why it is such a no-brainer to avoid them?

[Si1]

Pensions have advantages and disadvantages, as with any investment, but I don't see why it is such a no-brainer to avoid them?

Hi, I agree with you.

however, the small print is confusing to many, who then rely on IFAs and then get fleeced with high fees

[uptherebels]

but the pensions accrued to date are still likely to be paid.

Pensions have advantages and disadvantages, as with any investment, but I don't see why it is such a no-brainer to avoid them?

Likely to be paid?!? Likely? That's enough of a reason to avoid them.

[Si1]

Likely to be paid?!? Likely? That's enough of a reason to avoid them.

what a foolish statement

a pension is just a tax-efficient legal wrapper

would you never cross the road due to knowing of someone who was hit by a bus?

[uptherebels]

what a foolish statement

a pension is just a tax-efficient legal wrapper

would you never cross the road due to knowing of someone who was hit by a bus?

Different thing altogether. We take risks all the time. As you say, crossing the road for example. Handing over money, for someone else to invest for you, over a lifetime of work, in the HOPE that you might get SOME of it back, is not a risk, it's insane.

[Si1]

Different thing altogether. We take risks all the time. As you say, crossing the road for example. Handing over money, for someone else to invest for you, over a lifetime of work, in the HOPE that you might get SOME of it back, is not a risk, it's insane.

so open a pension that allows you to pick your own shares or funds then

you sound like you just don't know what one is and don't want to admit it

[uptherebels]

so open a pension that allows you to pick your own shares or funds then

you sound like you just don't know what one is and don't want to admit it

You are right in one sense. I didn't know there was such a thing, but I'm happy to admit it though. Wouldn't have a clue which shares to pick. Even if I did, I would probably lose it all at the crucial moment .

Don't get me wrong, if people want to invest in such things then fine. I assure you I won't be complaining when I am old and poor. I don't expect to live much past 65 anyway, even IF I get that far. I'm not so much a glass half empty person. More like I've just dropped the glass, and it's shattered on my foot, causing me to bleed to death as I watch the contents of the glass soak into the floorboards.

[phead]

Only problem with this announcement, it cannot be true.

IBM bids on contracts involving local and national government, so needs a final salary scheme otherwise it couldn't tupe staff across, so there must still be a scheme.

Also there must be thousands of staff already in that position, whose contracts cannot be changed, so they must remain on the scheme.

[Selling up]

I'm not so much a glass half empty person. More like I've just dropped the glass, and it's shattered on my foot, causing me to bleed to death as I watch the contents of the glass soak into the floorboards.