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Fire In The Flats

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Those poor sods who died there today are victms of Brown's Britain.

A sane government would stop children being housed in tower blocks. It's just madness.

And the state of emergency housing in London I imagine those homeless due to the fire will be some time in temporary accomodation.

I'm a bit worried by the idea that one staircase per block may not be enough. What will they do? Add a staircase or pull them all down?

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It's reported that the cause of the fire and the fast spread are mysterious.

I wonder if the two industrial sewing machine frames clearly visible in the photos offer a clue?

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Guest sillybear2

They tried to pull them down before but some socialist sightseers slapped a listing on them because they look pretty <_< Not that they have to live in them of course.

Every last one of these failed collectivist blocks should have been ripped down after Ronan point.

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Those poor sods who died there today are victms of Brown's Britain.

A sane government would stop children being housed in tower blocks. It's just madness.

And the state of emergency housing in London I imagine those homeless due to the fire will be some time in temporary accomodation.

I'm a bit worried by the idea that one staircase per block may not be enough. What will they do? Add a staircase or pull them all down?

Its a little unfair to say this is the result of browns britain -- children have been housed in tower blocks for decades.

I agree its just not fiar that kids dont have the freedon to run around in a garden / the countryside - id have gone stir crazy as a kid.

Things is, there is just not enough space in the cities - not sure there is an alternative.

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Things is, there is just not enough space in the cities - not sure there is an alternative.

People need to not live in cities then...?

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Those poor sods who died there today are victms of Brown's Britain.

A sane government would stop children being housed in tower blocks. It's just madness.

There's nothing wrong with tower blocks as long as regulations are observed.

Almost the entire population of Russia is housed in high-rise. 160 odd million people.

You would be surprised, but lifts and fire escapes are inspected far more frequently in Russia than in the UK.

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Guest sillybear2
Its a little unfair to say this is the result of browns britain -- children have been housed in tower blocks for decades.

It's the fault of previous Labour governments from the 60's for building these deathtraps in the first place, even those buildings that didn't fail structurally hugely damaged the social fabric of the areas they inflicted. Their brutalist eyesores are the failures of collectivism and social engineering made concrete.

NuLabour's failure is the fact they had 12 years to raze them to the ground but their housing policy basically consisted of restricting supply and blowing bubbles.

Almost the entire population of Russia is housed in high-rise. 160 odd million people.

That's not exactly a boast, we don't need a Pripyat on Thames.

Edited by sillybear2

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People need to not live in cities then...?

Is there enough jobs in the country? Or enough tranport provision to get them to the cities?

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There's nothing wrong with tower blocks as long as regulations are observed.

Almost the entire population of Russia is housed in high-rise. 160 odd million people.

You would be surprised, but lifts and fire escapes are inspected far more frequently in Russia than in the UK.

I know a little bit about tower blocks.

Regulations and daily checks used to be the job of the residential caretaker. From what I understand buildings insurance for tower blocks was less because of someone living on site with responsbility.

These days in Manchester you're lucky to have one - they've phased most of them out replacing them with peripateic wet gangs who'll do the cursory glance and that's it.

I don't know about London - or whether indeed this block had one to ensure that fire doors were maintained and kept shut, and to guide firemen and emergency workers into a building and give guidance on layout.

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One of things that pissers me off it the number of rebuildable towner blocks knocked down. Strange as i may seem most where very well built, yes they needed re-furb work, but LABOUR knocked them down. I went to Walton Church 2 years ago to look over a job............i was taken to the top of the church and its one of the highest points in Liverpool.

I was shocked at how many where going, thank God we built all that "Lux Apartments" that are no where near as good & will crummble quickly.

As for giving people good houseing & they be good people thats BULL. When the local BTL were in bussiness in Ormskirk we had HELL from SCUM shipped out from Liverpool to NICE Houses.............Thank GOD the BTL empire fell & the houses got repo...............its nice to live out here now.

Oh, yes Expect in the next 7-12 years a NEW Towner Block building program to start over.

Mike

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NuLabour's failure is the fact they had 12 years to raze them to the ground but their housing policy basically consisted of restricting supply and blowing bubbles.

The tories didnt exactly demolish them in the 18 years they had......

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It's the fault of previous Labour governments from the 60's for building these deathtraps in the first place

And the Tory Govts that did similarly ?

NuLabour's failure is the fact they had 12 years to raze them to the ground

and the Tory Govt had 18 years before that...

I'm not defending the current Govt here, just pointing out that shocking housing policy has been common practice for both parties when in power.

edit: cross pot with weebag

Edited by Mal Volio

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Guest sillybear2
The tories didnt exactly demolish them in the 18 years they had......

They removed the bribes and stopped further towers from being built, central government actually subsidised every floor built above a certain level. Even after Ronan point the planners couldn't stop themselves, they wanted to dictate and engineer how and where people should live in order to realise their socialist paradise. Little did they realise that collectivism falls flat on its face when everyone is held hostage by the worst residents, in this sad case, quite literally.

Anyway, Labour pretends to care about "their people" and did nothing for them, with the Tories that was expected anyway. Labour doesn't care about the inner cities for a different reason, because they take their votes for granted.

And the Tory Govts that did similarly ?

Collectivism and brutalist modernism is a soulless socialist ideology, they brought this disease to these shores. No Englishman would label housing 'A Machine For Living In'.

Edited by sillybear2

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Top excuse, pull down all flats, and start the housing rebuilding at the governments expense, while housing all the chavsin btl's at the nations expense.

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hot day ,open windows lots of convection ,stairwells may have been left open to generate a draught

cause could have been anything ,flames easily leap upwards to flats above , open windows and

curtains take it to the next level

A dreadful experience for all involved :(

poor construction could have been a factor as well of course

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Its a little unfair to say this is the result of browns britain -- children have been housed in tower blocks for decades.

and it's usual in most of the world. I lived in a tower block in Germany, and it was one of the best addresses in town[1]. There were some good facilities for kiddies there.

I agree its just not fiar that kids dont have the freedon to run around in a garden / the countryside - id have gone stir crazy as a kid.

Things is, there is just not enough space in the cities - not sure there is an alternative.

Sure. Do something about the cars, and give them back the roads where they live.

A bit more freedom should help with the frustration and anger that leads to urban violence, too.

[1] my landlady was the widow of a wealthy industrialist, who had had flats in a couple of cities his work took him to, and certainly wasn't going to live in anything less than high quality.

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There were some good facilities for kiddies there.

Sure. Do something about the cars, and give them back the roads where they live.

What facilities? In the block?

I think cars should be banned from parking on the roads. If you don't have a drive you don't get to own a vehicle :)

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No Englishman would label housing 'A Machine For Living In'.

That's funny, i'm both English and think that's an absolutely true description of what a house is.

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Guest sillybear2
That's funny, i'm both English and think that's an absolutely true description of what a house is.

You might agree with the description but what about the conclusion; that housing should come off a concrete production line then be assembled into huge human hen houses.

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It's a little unrealistic to expect all council tenants in London to be housed in semi detached with ample gardens. :blink:

It's the capital city, people move there and it gets overcrowded, same as New York, Paris, Madrid etc.

What I am waiting to hear is the cause of the blaze - some said on the news kids had been starting fires.

If that's true, it's got bugger all to do with the design or quality of the building.

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Guest sillybear2
It's a little unrealistic to expect all council tenants in London to be housed in semi detached with ample gardens. :blink:

It's the capital city, people move there and it gets overcrowded, same as New York, Paris, Madrid etc.

What I am waiting to hear is the cause of the blaze - some said on the news kids had been starting fires.

If that's true, it's got bugger all to do with the design or quality of the building.

If the building only has a single central staircase and no emergency exits then it has everything to do with the design of the building.

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If the building only has a single central staircase and no emergency exits then it has everything to do with the design of the building.

Err no :rolleyes: , if somebody started a fire deliberately, it means that they are responsible for the deaths.

If that is the case then it's wrong to put the blame on... the government, the council, the architect etc.

Edited by frankief

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Guest sillybear2
Err no :rolleyes: , if somebody started a fire deliberately, it means that they are responsible for the deaths.

If that is the case then it's wrong to put the blame on... the government, the council, the architect etc.

And what if the cause was electrical related or an accident? If you willfully design and construct a building with only a single point of egress then you are to blame, you are putting people at risk regardless of the cause or intent behind the blaze, it is an accident waiting to happen. Where in the fire regs does it state that an architect can lawfully allow people to be killed if the cause is found to be arson. Negligence is negligence.

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Almost the entire population of Russia is housed in high-rise. 160 odd million people.

That's not exactly a boast, we don't need a Pripyat on Thames.

Wasn't a boast at all. The pre-fab flats were thrown up for two reasons. One, that Stalin didn't bother about infrastructure at all for decades. Two, because of the vast distances across Russia's 11 time zones, it's easier to conduit gas, water, services and so on into concentrated townships. Most Russians benefit from centrally piped hot town water for heating too.

The point I was making was that there are plenty of babushkas, concierges, busybodies, apparatchiks and so on who know what is happening in any block at any time.

The Dutch experiment with huge Russian style blocks, in the Bijlmermeer, didn't last five minutes. The area immediately became a crime ghetto. There was also the - now demolished - Russian lookalike Hulme Estate in Manchester.

Point . . . it isn't only the fault of the architecture. The Hulme Estate even won awards when it was built. British people are notorious for not speaking to their neighbours and having very little community spirit. Along with the lack of oversight, these accidents are more likely to happen.

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