Slim Pickings For Graduates

[Cogs]

not far off and they certainly don't work as hard as someone in the private sector would for the same wage/holiday/pension.

My daughters teacher left teaching when she was younger and did something else, now twenty years on and wanting to semi retire (not far off retirement) she has returned to teaching. She has returned to teaching (primary) for an easy life and to wind down for retirement. Go on, tell me again how overworked teachers are.

You are making that up.

I've noticed all kinds of people confess career destroying things to you on a regular basis.

Are you in fact a Catholic priest or just a liar?

Or is it just coincidence that you say outrageous things and then just happen to have a shockingly appropriate yet genuine anecdote that just happens to prove you were right all along in your back pocket... every single time?

Edited July 4, 2009 by Cogs

[sundance_kid]

The university bubble in the UK was born out of one thing only.

To help regenerate many of Britain’s cities after the heavy industries left.

It was built with the intention to help restart property speculation, shopping centres, BTL empires, bars, restaurants, etc. Sounds great except somebody had to be landed the bill, and part of that bill was to enforce debt onto young people via the rouse of ‘education’.

The work structure of the UK has been rigged to help prop this bubble, i.e. to increasingly devalue the degree and the skills into more and more lower paid, shoddy jobs basic jobs.

It’s the only way it can work, so the bubble can suck in more and more wealth.

People may mock students for having been strong-armed into the university route but I can tell you this, most likely whatever your town/city is, you yourself have most likely benefited from this bubble.

By the way, harking back to the idea of leaving school and instead working your way up a company is as outdated as it is irrelevant. It doesn’t exist anymore for the VAST majority. These avenues were closed long ago.

[Number79]

You are making that up.

I've noticed all kinds of people confess career destroying things to you on a regular basis.

Are you in fact a Catholic priest or just a liar?

Or is it just coincidence that you say outrageous things and then just happen to have a shockingly appropriate yet genuine anecdote that just happens to prove you were right all along in your back pocket... every single time?

I have said nothing outrageous only the truth. The anectdote that supports what I said is actually what has helped me to form my opinion. It may not be a typical situation throughout the country but it is where I live. I regularly go in to the school and help on my rest days, none of the teachers are stressed, it is a very easy going atmosphere and the teachers that I speak to love working there.

As for the rest of your nonsense

"I've noticed all kinds of people confess career destroying things to you on a regular basis." Not sure what that means at all.

"Or is it just coincidence that you say outrageous things and then just happen to have a shockingly appropriate yet genuine anecdote that just happens to prove you were right all along in your back pocket... every single time?"

You make out like I bs all the time and always have a story like some sort of career bullsh1tter. We have only crossed swords once before and that was months ago on the subject of teaching. I posted the same honest anectdotal evidence then, feel free to check through my posts.

I know that you have a vi in teaching but from what I know there is little sympathy deserved for those on the gravy train. Just because you don't like to hear my opinion or evidence that disagrees with your views does not give you the right to start being offensive or make wild accusations.

[Laughing Gnome]

If you have an accredited engineering degree and cannot find a job paying greater than �14k there is something wrong with you.

The greatest cause of graduates with good degrees not finding work is apathy. I'm sure the "lesser" degrees will struggle more but this is just natural selection.

I know from personal experience that the "economic climate" argument has become just another excuse for dossing around at mum and dads.

Regards

Wrong, there is something seriously wrong with you. I hope you lose your job soon and geyt a reality check.

[Number79]

You make out like I bs all the time and always have a story like some sort of career bullsh1tter. We have only crossed swords once before and that was months ago on the subject of teaching. I posted the same honest anectdotal evidence then, feel free to check through my posts.

maybe not months ago that we crossed in a similar discussion, it was on 01/06/09. I explained more about my understanding and experiences in that thread. I also relayed the same anectdotal about my daughters teacher and you never called me a liar then.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...15891&st=30

[Olebrum]

How about people with useful skills that others actually want?

how are they doing?

The only skills needed these days are to work 14 hour days, 7 days a week, chained to a machine and eating a

5h1tt1ng were you stand.

[cells]

How should society acquire people who can design nuclear reactors and airliners etc?

Are those things that you feel can be picked up 'on the job', like a carpenter showing his son how to knock up a doorframe?

That's the problem with your ideology, it works on the most basic level, I give you a goat if you knock me up a wooden door. Once people start wanting things requiring applied science and engineering and/or the efforts of a large number of people it's flumoxed.

edit - rewording

You can learn everything on the job.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

You can learn everything on the job.

Sure you can...

'right Alan, let's get that bleedin' control rod into the reactor core assembly and then have us a cuppa'

[cells]

Sounds great - except people obviously don't want things requiring applied science et al in anything like the numbers we have trained for, or at the prices said trainees went and learned to be paid out at.

Malinvestment for many, as I said.

Nothing is ever a perfect market injin.

Lots of companies could make good use of scientists and engineers but they don’t know how to hire them nor do they know that they need them.

My company would be a prime example. If they hired 25 good engineers/scientists they would save 10-100x the wages they paid them. However they are bind to this and HR is not good at hiring good engineers/scientists.

Plus there is the dilution effect. So many kids with university degrees but there is no standard. So if they hire a poor engineer they then assume they are all crap and do not continue to hire engineers.

[cells]

Sure you can...

'right Alan, let's get that bleedin' control rod into the reactor core assembly and then have us a cuppa'

I am serious.

Your assuming people need breastfeeding information and knowledge and cannot learn anything themselves.

Lots of people study at home with no help, just books and the net, they sit the exams and do very well.

Everything can be learnt on the job. Of course it depends on the person as some just are crap at math etc.

[HPC001]

What sort of qualifications do the employers have, on average?

How would I know, they're hardly going to tell me that in their job ads

Nowadays it isn't uncommon to need a degree just to get a shot at a £14k Office Administrator role..

Edited July 4, 2009 by HPC001

[Injin]

How would I know, they're hardly going to tell me that in their job ads

Wouldn't you ask them what their qualifications were in an interview?

[cells]

If true that is pretty dire as 14K is close to salary levels being paid in the recession of 1990 to 93.

My Niece graduated and became a teacher after doing a nine month teacher training course.

She started on almost 25K + gets loads of holidays.

So newly qualifed primary school teachers now get paid 70% more than engineering and science grads.

All professions which are licences or regulated by the government have higher wages.

The reason for the licence or regulation is to keep prices high.

For example, I could teach physics to kids and do a good job of it. However I cannot just start at least in a state school without jumping through their hoops first.

Think of black cab drivers. They earn a good wage, not because they can do something special, we can all drive and sat navs will do the rest. They earn £50-100k because they have to jump through hoops to get a licence which limits competition.

Edited July 4, 2009 by cells

[HPC001]

Wouldn't you ask them what their qualifications were in an interview?

No, never thought of doing that. Why?

[Johnny Storm]

You can learn everything on the job.

Education is failing our people. You would be surprised the number of young people who write like this

C U @ pub l8r 2nite m8

This said the majority of posters on here dont seem to know the difference between hear and here , quiet and quite, there and their.

I had a conversation with a lad who told me has doing an access degree course. I said that a lot of people are thinking about doing degrees because of raising unemployment and that there are more people wanting to goto Uni than there are places. His response?

Oh they'll have got it sorted by 2010

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

All professions which are licences or regulated by the government have higher wages.

The reason for the licence or regulation is to keep prices high.

For example, I could teach physics to kids and do a good job of it. However I cannot just stat at least in a state school without jumping through their hoops first.

Think of black cab drivers. They earn a good wage, not because they can do something special, we can all drive and sat navs will do the rest. They earn £50-100k because they have to jump through hoops to get a licence which limits competition.

Hmm, Bogbrush-san and SNACR don't do anything special either, they are simply retailers, but I don't hear you suggesting they don't deserve what they make. Why is a cab driver (a self-employed businessman) being criticised by you? It just smacks of this conceit of devaluation; these guys are entitled to what they make, but these guys aren't.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Education is failing our people. You would be surprised the number of young people who write like this

C U @ pub l8r 2nite m8

This said the majority of posters on here dont seem to know the difference between hear and here , quiet and quite, there and their.

I had a conversation with a lad who told me has doing an access degree course. I said that a lot of people are thinking about doing degrees because of raising unemployment and that there are more people wanting to goto Uni than there are places. His response?

Oh they'll have got it sorted by 2010

'rising unemployment', surely. Or are you suggesting the upward trend in joblessness is an outcome that has been contrived?

[Number79]

Hmm, Bogbrush-san and SNACR don't do anything special either, they are simply retailers, but I don't hear you suggesting they don't deserve what they make. Why is a cab driver (a self-employed businessman) being criticised by you? It just smacks of this conceit of devaluation; these guys are entitled to what they make, but these guys aren't.

he wasn't taking a pop at cabbies but the government and the way they run the system.

"All professions which are licences or regulated by the government have higher wages.

The reason for the licence or regulation is to keep prices high.

For example, I could teach physics to kids and do a good job of it. However I cannot just stat at least in a state school without jumping through their hoops first.

Think of black cab drivers. They earn a good wage, not because they can do something special, we can all drive and sat navs will do the rest. They earn £50-100k because they have to jump through hoops to get a licence which limits competition."

[Johnny Storm]

I wasnt, but I like how you think. Are you an MP?

[cells]

Education is failing our people. You would be surprised the number of young people who write like this

C U @ pub l8r 2nite m8

This said the majority of posters on here dont seem to know the difference between hear and here , quiet and quite, there and their.

I had a conversation with a lad who told me has doing an access degree course. I said that a lot of people are thinking about doing degrees because of raising unemployment and that there are more people wanting to goto Uni than there are places. His response?

Oh they'll have got it sorted by 2010

Education is not failing our kids, their parents and the state are.

An 18 year old is given the choice to leave college and …… well there are no jobs bar McJobs and that is if you are lucky OR…. Go to university which everyone these days can do.

Now the kid isn’t really told what it will cost, and even if they are told it would cost £25k how the hell do they know what £25k is? They have probably never had £100 in their pockets and they are being asked to take on £25k debt.

It is an easy choice for kids because they are stupid and because they have no real alternative choice.

The government should scrap all funding of university places. No bloody student loans company. That way the kids would have to pay upfront and can appreciate the cost.

To help the poor kids, the government should advertise the Open University and the university of London external system more. Those two universities offer kids the chance to get degrees at under £3-4k.

[cells]

Hmm, Bogbrush-san and SNACR don't do anything special either, they are simply retailers, but I don't hear you suggesting they don't deserve what they make. Why is a cab driver (a self-employed businessman) being criticised by you? It just smacks of this conceit of devaluation; these guys are entitled to what they make, but these guys aren't.

Because a BLACK-CAB driver (not the normal taxis) don’t compete in a free and fair market. For example, I cannot just buy a black cab and start driving it to make some money. I would have to spend 3 years of jumping through hoops to get a “licence†for something I can do instantly.

The same applies to any profession which requires a licence or heavy regulation. Be it a doctor, a teacher, a dentist, etc.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

he wasn't taking a pop at cabbies but the government and the way they run the system.

"All professions which are licences or regulated by the government have higher wages.

The reason for the licence or regulation is to keep prices high.

For example, I could teach physics to kids and do a good job of it. However I cannot just stat at least in a state school without jumping through their hoops first.

Think of black cab drivers. They earn a good wage, not because they can do something special, we can all drive and sat navs will do the rest. They earn £50-100k because they have to jump through hoops to get a licence which limits competition."

The 'not because they do something special' bit seemed rather telling. I mean most people making a good living don't do anything special. His argument is ridiculous anyway as cab drivers are licensed for good reason. No licensing means any sex offender could set up as a cab driver and start his own mobile rape wagon.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Because a BLACK-CAB driver (not the normal taxis) don’t compete in a free and fair market. For example, I cannot just buy a black cab and start driving it to make some money. I would have to spend 3 years of jumping through hoops to get a “licence†for something I can do instantly.

The same applies to any profession which requires a licence or heavy regulation. Be it a doctor, a teacher, a dentist, etc.

Jeez, are you from the same school of abject idiocy as Injin? Do you really want to be treated by a Doctor whose qualifications consist of having watch a few episodes of 'Holby City'?

[Injin]

The 'not because they do something special' bit seemed rather telling. I mean most people making a good living don't do anything special. His argument is ridiculous anyway as cab drivers are licensed for good reason. No licensing means any sex offender could set up as a cab driver and start his own mobile rape wagon.

No, having licences means that people will assume someone else has vetted the drivers, so they won't check for themselves, raising the likelihood of assault.

The only reason for licencing/degrees/begging the state is to corner the market and therefore raise the price.

The reason people don't have good jobs is because of the philosophy you advocate.

[Tomlad]

Why not just blame everything on teachers?

Its funny, a lot of the people who winge about teachers benefits were also happy to brag about how much more they earned in the good times.

Swings and roundabouts. Its how the world works...