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UnwittingAccomplice

Chat With A Surveyor

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Anecdotal..

With mortgage rates possibly going to rise sometime in the next couple of years, the wife and I have decided to fix for another 5 years. The Post office are doing 5 year fixes at 4.49% which is cheaper than we pay now so not bad.

I filled out the application form online, part of which asks the value of your home and the amount you want to borrow - so the LTV can be calculated. I guessed our house was worth 210K. We bought it in 2005 for 220k so I figured it went up and then down a bit. I was worried it would be under 180k which would affect our chances of getting the mortgage at the good rate.

So the following day the post office (or Bristol and West actually) rang up to book a convenient time for a valuation by a surveyor. I was surprised - and worried a bit as well. We must be borderline I thought.

Anyway, the surveyor (sensible looking chap in his mid 50's) came along to value the house on saturday morning. He had a decent look around and spent probably half an hour all told. He said he had been busy doing lots of remortgage work of which most involved a proper look round the property. I said I though mortgage companies just drive by and take a look from the outside. He said that still happens for people borrowing 10% of a property's value but not in most cases. Lenders are being very careful.

The chap then went on to say how he had seen the crash play out. I was quite open with him, I said the whole boom was mad and it was a shame for many people, family and otherwise who had been priced out of a home. He quoted examples of new flats that had fallen at least 50%. Generally though family houses on established streets were holding up better but those on new estates less well. Reposessons were increasing daily.

Anyway, I got the valuation a couple of days later - 210k - so we were ok for the rate - phew!

More anecdotal.. I actually had the house valued by 3 estate agents 3 months ago. We thought about moving so we looked at the options. The average was 215k (hence I put 210k on the mortagage application) but the lowest was 200k - with the idea of accepting 190 ish

So when people distrust estate agent valuations and ignore the lowest one - sometimes there is a reason. The guy who valued 20k less than the others was desperate for sale. Lots of stuff on his books, repo's selling but nothing else. He saw us as a commission - nothing else. So that is why people take the middle valuation - they don't trust estate agents and this just proves it.

Roy

(lucky to have a house and a job - and I know it)

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Anecdotal..

With mortgage rates possibly going to rise sometime in the next couple of years, the wife and I have decided to fix for another 5 years. The Post office are doing 5 year fixes at 4.49% which is cheaper than we pay now so not bad.

I filled out the application form online, part of which asks the value of your home and the amount you want to borrow - so the LTV can be calculated. I guessed our house was worth 210K. We bought it in 2005 for 220k so I figured it went up and then down a bit. I was worried it would be under 180k which would affect our chances of getting the mortgage at the good rate.

So the following day the post office (or Bristol and West actually) rang up to book a convenient time for a valuation by a surveyor. I was surprised - and worried a bit as well. We must be borderline I thought.

Anyway, the surveyor (sensible looking chap in his mid 50's) came along to value the house on saturday morning. He had a decent look around and spent probably half an hour all told. He said he had been busy doing lots of remortgage work of which most involved a proper look round the property. I said I though mortgage companies just drive by and take a look from the outside. He said that still happens for people borrowing 10% of a property's value but not in most cases. Lenders are being very careful.

The chap then went on to say how he had seen the crash play out. I was quite open with him, I said the whole boom was mad and it was a shame for many people, family and otherwise who had been priced out of a home. He quoted examples of new flats that had fallen at least 50%. Generally though family houses on established streets were holding up better but those on new estates less well. Reposessons were increasing daily.

Anyway, I got the valuation a couple of days later - 210k - so we were ok for the rate - phew!

More anecdotal.. I actually had the house valued by 3 estate agents 3 months ago. We thought about moving so we looked at the options. The average was 215k (hence I put 210k on the mortagage application) but the lowest was 200k - with the idea of accepting 190 ish

So when people distrust estate agent valuations and ignore the lowest one - sometimes there is a reason. The guy who valued 20k less than the others was desperate for sale. Lots of stuff on his books, repo's selling but nothing else. He saw us as a commission - nothing else. So that is why people take the middle valuation - they don't trust estate agents and this just proves it.

Roy

(lucky to have a house and a job - and I know it)

Lose the job and it'll be 'unlucky' to have a house! Seems that all you've done is to kick the can further down the road.

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I actually had the house valued by 3 estate agents 3 months ago. We thought about moving so we looked at the options. The average was 215k (hence I put 210k on the mortagage application) but the lowest was 200k - with the idea of accepting 190 ish

So when people distrust estate agent valuations and ignore the lowest one - sometimes there is a reason. The guy who valued 20k less than the others was desperate for sale. Lots of stuff on his books, repo's selling but nothing else. He saw us as a commission - nothing else. So that is why people take the middle valuation - they don't trust estate agents and this just proves it.

Nonsense. Have you any idea how surveyors get their values??? They ring up estate agents and ask them what they think it's worth. Surveyors have no more idea of value than do agents - they do have no VI in exaggerating, I agree.

e.g. When I sold my house ('07), I had built up quite a good relationship with John the agent who had JUST sold next door, and it took several weeks, for £510k (a very reputable agent, lots of experience). I got him in to value mine, £550 he said. I put it on with another agent at 800 and got 790. Wow!!!. Anyway, the surveyor came round. Then the agent rang John and asked him what he thought it was worth. Response "Oh it must be worth 790".

Surveyor's valuation based on VI agent, who wanted to push prices higher so his commissions were higher.

Valuation is an art, not a science. No valuer can do more than give a range. He probably thought your house was worth between 180 and 208. As you'd put down 210, he was prepared to agree with 210.

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Anecdotal..

The Post office are doing 5 year fixes at 4.49% which is cheaper than we pay now so not bad.

Am I the only person that see a problem with...."The Post office are doing 5 year fixes..." they are a f**king post office for christ sake. Deliver your f**King letters and leave lending to the Building societies. They dont evden deliver letters well, so their mortagges must be s**T. Whatever happened to the 2nd post ?

Is it any wonder our country is in a mess.

With regard to the rest of the post...to be honest...sounds like troll estate agent b*ll sh*t. The Surveyors I work with me tell me the same story....deluded sellers, repo's, desperate people, desperate agents, up to 70% under valuations, lots of tears, threats of violence, panic starting, job losses everywhere...

if it's not troll EA bull then you're a lucky man....sell now and be done....dont you read the between the lines in the news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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Am I the only person that see a problem with...."The Post office are doing 5 year fixes..." they are a f**king post office for christ sake. Deliver your f**King letters and leave lending to the Building societies. They dont evden deliver letters well, so their mortagges must be s**T. Whatever happened to the 2nd post ?

Is it any wonder our country is in a mess.

H'mmm?

This is an example of how the marketeers are using the values of "Brands" . Despite the deterioration of the service provided by the Royal Mail the name still engenders feelings of honesty, reliability and trustworthiness.

But then why shouldn't they move into other areas of business? They have a large infrastructure of retail premises, a good distribution network, computerised systems able to cope with the admin and a trusted name. The profitable parts of their existing business are being cherry picked away from them. They have to find alternative ways to generate profits or go out of business.

On the original point, I agree valuation is an art not a science. We all have different perceptions of value. The key is whether we can afford to buy the item we desire. How else can you explain the high values of property in Sandbanks, or Monaco. The buildings themselves can't be worth anywhere near the prices that are/have been achieved. Was it Henry Royce (one of the founders of Rolls Royce) who said "the quality remains long after the price has been forgotten".

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The Post Office is not the Royal Mail.

Quite, but they were once, not so long ago, an integral part of the same organisation. In fact they still are part of The Royal Mail Group. Royal Mail Group is the parent company of Royal Mail, Post Office and Parcelforce Worldwide.

I'm tempted to ask you to stop being such a pedant. Instead I'll just say that it reinforces my opinion on the strength of brands and their use or misuse in marketing.

Edited by sleepwello'nights

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Am I the only person that see a problem with...."The Post office are doing 5 year fixes..." they are a f**king post office for christ sake. Deliver your f**King letters and leave lending to the Building societies. They dont evden deliver letters well, so their mortagges must be s**T. Whatever happened to the 2nd post ?

Is it any wonder our country is in a mess.

With regard to the rest of the post...to be honest...sounds like troll estate agent b*ll sh*t. The Surveyors I work with me tell me the same story....deluded sellers, repo's, desperate people, desperate agents, up to 70% under valuations, lots of tears, threats of violence, panic starting, job losses everywhere...

if it's not troll EA bull then you're a lucky man....sell now and be done....dont you read the between the lines in the news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been on this site since 2001 (when it used to look very different) My old login (same name) got closed somewhere along the line hence the newer one. I program computers for a living, I'm not an EA

I bought in 2005 because I saw that the madness could last longer than I could afford to wait. I had an inheritance, itself derived from property so I put it straight back into property.

My original post was just an anecdotal - thats all. A conversation and an opinion. I've been wanting this crash for a long long time. The property boom has cost me and my family a lot. It means my sister cannot buy a house, my mother in law has a mortgage she can't afford because she got caught up with the madness, my brother is stressed to the max paying his large mortgage. So don't lecture me. Just because I pay my rent to the bank doesn't mean I'm a troll.

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I've been on this site since 2001 (when it used to look very different) My old login (same name) got closed somewhere along the line hence the newer one. I program computers for a living, I'm not an EA

I bought in 2005 because I saw that the madness could last longer than I could afford to wait. I had an inheritance, itself derived from property so I put it straight back into property.

My original post was just an anecdotal - thats all. A conversation and an opinion. I've been wanting this crash for a long long time. The property boom has cost me and my family a lot. It means my sister cannot buy a house, my mother in law has a mortgage she can't afford because she got caught up with the madness, my brother is stressed to the max paying his large mortgage. So don't lecture me. Just because I pay my rent to the bank doesn't mean I'm a troll.

No you're not a troll, even I can see that!

Seems to me that you bought after the damage had been done (2004), however, if you're happy and secure in your job over the next 5 years then fair play to you.

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I've been on this site since 2001 (when it used to look very different) My old login (same name) got closed somewhere along the line hence the newer one. I program computers for a living, I'm not an EA

I bought in 2005 because I saw that the madness could last longer than I could afford to wait. I had an inheritance, itself derived from property so I put it straight back into property.

My original post was just an anecdotal - thats all. A conversation and an opinion. I've been wanting this crash for a long long time. The property boom has cost me and my family a lot. It means my sister cannot buy a house, my mother in law has a mortgage she can't afford because she got caught up with the madness, my brother is stressed to the max paying his large mortgage. So don't lecture me. Just because I pay my rent to the bank doesn't mean I'm a troll.

You really don't need to justify yourself. Please don't apologise for being a homeowner! By my reckoning over 50% of people who are members of this site own property. Some bought wisely and some bought stupidly and irresponsibly. Some will win and some will lose. Similarly some renters will win and some will lose.

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I've been on this site since 2001 (when it used to look very different) My old login (same name) got closed somewhere along the line hence the newer one. I program computers for a living, I'm not an EA

I bought in 2005 because I saw that the madness could last longer than I could afford to wait. I had an inheritance, itself derived from property so I put it straight back into property.

My original post was just an anecdotal - thats all. A conversation and an opinion. I've been wanting this crash for a long long time. The property boom has cost me and my family a lot. It means my sister cannot buy a house, my mother in law has a mortgage she can't afford because she got caught up with the madness, my brother is stressed to the max paying his large mortgage. So don't lecture me. Just because I pay my rent to the bank doesn't mean I'm a troll.

Hey, sorry, I was a bit harsh. I just said it the way I saw it. I keep hearing people saying..."yeah the markets dropped but my place is till worth XXXXX".

Everyone needs a house to live in, its a sorry shame that people have been put in the position of worrying that they may/may not have bought at the wrong/right time.

Things really have to change, but I fear they wont.

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I've been on this site since 2001 (when it used to look very different)

NOT having a pop but the original site started in October 2003 , it then changed a year or so later ;)

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Who cares what your home is worth? If you can afford the repayments and you are happy there then it is your home and that's all that matters.

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NOT having a pop but the original site started in October 2003 , it then changed a year or so later ;)

In that case I retract my apology and as I thot a lying no good estate agent type tryin to get people think to valuers think houses are still over valued. thats why i had my original rant. Its all boolocks. Be careful what you believe from this sites,

If you remember...facts facts and lying stats, you will be ok.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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In that case I retract my apology and as I thot a lying no good estate agent type tryin to get people think to valuers think houses are still over valued. thats why i had my original rant. Its all boolocks. Be careful what you believe from this sites,

If you remember...facts facts and lying stats, you will be ok.

My mistake, it was 2003 then. I forget. I remember it being a hot summer because I was working in an office in a converted loft and it was hot! I remember the forum when it was more like a text forum with with a blue or grey background and not much in the way of fancy graphics. I used to chat with MintedBTL, RGJ someone or other, Time to raise the rents etc. Finding the site actually convinced me not to buy right then.

I think houses are still very very overpriced as it happens. If you want to take anything from my experience it might be that these figures bandied around of 25% drops include flats at 50% falls and normal 3 bed semis in good streets of 20% falls.

Why is that such a strange thing? It seems normal to me that the properties that fall the most will be investment properties and those the least the ones owned by middle aged people with relatively lower levels of debt. It is all about people needing to sell and a lot of the grey haired folks on my street just don't need to sell yet.

It doesn't mean we are at the end yet though. I fully expect another 15% fall. If inflation starts to rise next year along with interest rates then it might get interesting as prices may stabilise due to inflation as per other crashes in the past. The real price will be less but the listed price will be the same. This uncertainty was the reason I fixed my mortgage for 5 years because there is likely to be a change in govt next year and who knows what will happen. 5 year fixes at 4.5% might be less common then.

As for being an estate agent - I'm a MS NAV/AX and ASP.NET programmer and proud of it!

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Worth looking into who supplies the mortgages for teh PO.

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/cont...ediaId=87000737

Provided by Bristol and West. Sounds like a good British company right?

Wrong.

http://www.bristol-west.co.uk/help/about/HelpAbout.aspx

Bristol & West Mortgages is a trading name of the Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland which is authorised by the Irish Financial Regulator

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