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Berlin - 10 Year Rental Contracts


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Hello Investors,

Please don't view this as a business offer as I am not a lawyer. I have seen these rental guarantee business models in the 80's when rent restriction were lifted in Berlin and a big sales hype started. It did not work then and it does not work now as it is a snowball system based on the assumption of ever growing sales. The only objective is to fake higher rents and thus push the price with in many cases a planned insolvency by the guarantee giver. Let me guess - there are no bank bonds in place to back up the guarantees?

Fast action excluding a n y one involved in the buying process is highly recommended. Get someone local with good English to bundle the information (not at a lawyer's hourly rate,, otherwise your heamorrhage cash before you even see results) from the contracts and most important what your financial obligations are and what it is you are entitled to from the contract as these quite often vary from what you were told. Also this local contact can focus the communication and bundle the interest of various investors to create buying power for the lawyer to be employed and the new management for your apartments.

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No money yet. I have contacted Brian Smith of CFP - he has advised to seek legal advice. He suggested Pablo Solar, tel 0049 3031102480, [email protected] who was one of the solicitors who handled he conveyancing originally.

I have emailed and phoned bk-law - [email protected], tel. 0049 (0)30 240 899 444. They were suggested in previous posts on this forum. They have indicated that a number of people have already contacted them and will send out some general info and advice today. I think possibly a joint approach with them may happen. Perhaps more people should contact them, but I cannot as yet vouch for them because I have only made an inital contact so far.

Has anyone else had any feedback re: lawyers etc.

We are going to take a group decision, everyone please email me asap if you are willing to join us, we have 11 people already.

[email protected]

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No money yet. I have contacted Brian Smith of CFP - he has advised to seek legal advice. He suggested Pablo Solar, tel 0049 3031102480, [email protected] who was one of the solicitors who handled he conveyancing originally.

I have emailed and phoned bk-law - [email protected], tel. 0049 (0)30 240 899 444. They were suggested in previous posts on this forum. They have indicated that a number of people have already contacted them and will send out some general info and advice today. I think possibly a joint approach with them may happen. Perhaps more people should contact them, but I cannot as yet vouch for them because I have only made an inital contact so far.

Has anyone else had any feedback re: lawyers etc.

Hi all, just checked my account and money for julys rent has been transferred(not cleared yet though) by company called Kapall!! Normally my bank statements say Dr.Ochel. Also they have not transferred the amount stated in the letter but even less, better than nothing at this point! I haven,t received any other letters from Allianze yet about releasing money so not as far down that line as others.

No reply from CFP but O.G. has been responding quickly sorting out julys rent. Don,t know what to do next really , its great reading this forum keeps me sane knowing others are in the same boat. If i contact a lawyer I think it will

be P.Solar as we had dealings with him during the sale and he was good then. Anyone else get julys rent yet!!

Any more meetings arranged!!!

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Hi all, just checked my account and money for julys rent has been transferred(not cleared yet though) by company called Kapall!! Normally my bank statements say Dr.Ochel. Also they have not transferred the amount stated in the letter but even less, better than nothing at this point! I haven,t received any other letters from Allianze yet about releasing money so not as far down that line as others.

No reply from CFP but O.G. has been responding quickly sorting out julys rent. Don,t know what to do next really , its great reading this forum keeps me sane knowing others are in the same boat. If i contact a lawyer I think it will

be P.Solar as we had dealings with him during the sale and he was good then. Anyone else get julys rent yet!!

Any more meetings arranged!!!

Checked today and also received a reduced rent for July from Kapall. CFP had said in emails from them that Kapall now looking after the rent. Like you it is not cleared yet. Keen to join up for a meeting about this.

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We're another couple caught up in this whole fiasco. Bought 2 flats end of 2007, mortgaged with Allianz, management company Dr OXXXl, wanted us to give them authority to release the rental guarantee about 3-4 weeks ago. We e-mailed CFP who were more concerned about Oleg SXXXXXX involvement than anything else but advised us to seek legal advice before doing anything. We have now engaged PXXX SXXX as POA to sort everything out for us but it will cost a small fortune. We received May rental income in June, nothing for June or July and received a small portion of the rent owed a couple of days ago. Would appreciate the support of a group, as we have felt quite isolated in our nightmare up to now.

MOD EDIT PERSONAL DETAIL REMOVED

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We're another couple caught up in this whole fiasco. Bought 2 flats end of 2007, mortgaged with Allianz, management company Dr OXXXl, wanted us to give them authority to release the rental guarantee about 3-4 weeks ago. We e-mailed CFP who were more concerned about Oleg SXXXXXX involvement than anything else but advised us to seek legal advice before doing anything. We have now engaged PXXX SXXX as POA to sort everything out for us but it will cost a small fortune. We received May rental income in June, nothing for June or July and received a small portion of the rent owed a couple of days ago. Would appreciate the support of a group, as we have felt quite isolated in our nightmare up to now.

MOD EDIT PERSONAL DETAIL REMOVED

welcome to the group

Belfast 72

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We're another couple caught up in this whole fiasco. Bought 2 flats end of 2007, mortgaged with Allianz, management company Dr OXXXl, wanted us to give them authority to release the rental guarantee about 3-4 weeks ago. We e-mailed CFP who were more concerned about Oleg SXXXXXX involvement than anything else but advised us to seek legal advice before doing anything. We have now engaged PXXX SXXX as POA to sort everything out for us but it will cost a small fortune. We received May rental income in June, nothing for June or July and received a small portion of the rent owed a couple of days ago. Would appreciate the support of a group, as we have felt quite isolated in our nightmare up to now.

MOD EDIT PERSONAL DETAIL REMOVED

Good to hear from you Mandy42, your story is the same as all of ours, you need to upgrade in order to leave

personal messages and contact people by e-mail look back on the forum for advice on how to do this. Some of us are in contact sharing what info we have from Berlin and the various parties involved. Most of us seem to be at the stage of reduced rent for july, none for june and waiting to see what happens in august while also exploring other options available.

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Hi,

keen to join also will email asap

Hello,

Another MRI/DrOchel victim here. Bought in 2007. May's rent paid late at start of June. Nothing for June, July or August although I have just got a promise that July and August will be paid by 4th September at new reduced rent. Are you guys meeting? I was away for the King's Head meeting last July. Would like to get involved to pressure Allianz/MRI/DrOchel more as communication from Berlin is very poor...

Philip Brunt

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we too have been caught up in this. based in London. Anyone else in London?

Hi there

there is a group of us in contact via email. Previous posts tell you how to upgrade so you can send personal messages to get copied into the group.

However most of us seem to be based in NI/Belfast.

Dont know about the others, but my apartment is in Rubenstraase - I assume yours is too.

You may also wish to look at the post by BK Law who are familiar with the situation.

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we too have been caught up in this. based in London. Anyone else in London?

Hi there, London based here also caught up in this problem. We have signed POA with Soliticor in Berlin to release bond to us - now waiting to hear on progress. I will probably follow up in a few days if I hear nothing. In the meantime, we have had a small payment of rent in August, but certainly not the full amount owing.

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Hi guys,

I'm also in the same boat as everyone else here RE: Berlin propery purchase. I just received a letter from solicitor today ( TN, UF & PS ) about (attempting to) sort out the rental shortfalls etc... and not sure what to do. I'd like to be kept in the loop for any future meetings being organised to discuss the problems - I'm in the greater Belfast area.

Cheers,

A.

Edited by Arrovitch
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Hi again,

I don't know how to contact anyone to be added to the loop here, but if someone can add me in to any group emails on this it would be greatly appreciated, thanks. My email is the same as my name on here, Arrovitch, at gmail . com

Thanks guys, hope to hear from some of you soon.

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One last query for everyone in this thread, if it's still active:

Has anyone looked into how much their place in Berlin is truly worth on the open market? Would it be worth foregoing the agreement with DO and selling the apartment on, even at a loss? I'm thinking that, even if the apartment sold for 85-90% of what I paid, I could still get my all my initial money back and walk away, simply due to the strength of the Euro exchange rate. But is it even worth that, or anything close to that? Is there a good web-site that can show value of similar properties?

Thanks all.

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One last query for everyone in this thread, if it's still active:

Has anyone looked into how much their place in Berlin is truly worth on the open market? Would it be worth foregoing the agreement with DO and selling the apartment on, even at a loss? I'm thinking that, even if the apartment sold for 85-90% of what I paid, I could still get my all my initial money back and walk away, simply due to the strength of the Euro exchange rate. But is it even worth that, or anything close to that? Is there a good web-site that can show value of similar properties?

Thanks all.

Hi, some of us are meeting at the kings head tomorrow night between 7.30 and 8.00pm .

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Since my last contribution to this thread nearly a month has passed and this is what has happened:

  1. I have received reduced rent of 240E from K in July.
  2. OS informed me that the actual rent Dr O received was 304E per month.
  3. OS informed me that the rent bond now stood at 3700E approx.
  4. OS informed me that Alli would not repay the rent bond as it was a guarantee against me not supporting the mortgage now that the rent was 150E less than my monthly mortgage.
  5. I have identified that I bought a silver mortgage membership with CFP and they do not have any POA.
  6. CFP recommended an Irish company to file a tax return and they have had their calculation accepted by the Germans. This company have been fairly efficient, if expensive.
  7. I have discovered that Alli gave a golden hello of 75E to me and deposited this into a sub account.
  8. For the time being I decided not to go with OS new management company, which would provide translation and accountancy services.
  9. Have successfully written a letter in German and managed to close the sub account with 75E in it and transfer the money to my main mortgage account.
  10. I have transferred 750E to my mortgage account. If K keeps on paying rent at current levels this should keep my mortgage account propped up until Jan/Feb 10.
  11. Yesterday I received a letter from my solicitor Ule touting for business. They want to go after the rent bond. I just dont see Alli - see italics comment above - paying up.

One final thing. We, and that includes me, are all guilty of not doing due diligence. MRI made it easy. I never even saw inside my flat. They drove me to the solicitor, notary etc. What I should have done was spend another day in Berlin looking at rents in Rubenstrasse before making the decision. If I had spent time identifying rents to be approx 300E per month and Dr O was paying 370E per month I would have backed off the deal.

But as the saying goes, a degree in hindsight is not of much use.

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Since my last contribution to this thread nearly a month has passed and this is what has happened:
  1. I have received reduced rent of 240E from K in July.

  2. OS informed me that the actual rent Dr O received was 304E per month.

  3. OS informed me that the rent bond now stood at 3700E approx.

  4. OS informed me that Alli would not repay the rent bond as it was a guarantee against me not supporting the mortgage now that the rent was 150E less than my monthly mortgage.

  5. I have identified that I bought a silver mortgage membership with CFP and they do not have any POA.

  6. CFP recommended an Irish company to file a tax return and they have had their calculation accepted by the Germans. This company have been fairly efficient, if expensive.

  7. I have discovered that Alli gave a golden hello of 75E to me and deposited this into a sub account.

  8. For the time being I decided not to go with OS new management company, which would provide translation and accountancy services.

  9. Have successfully written a letter in German and managed to close the sub account with 75E in it and transfer the money to my main mortgage account.

  10. I have transferred 750E to my mortgage account. If K keeps on paying rent at current levels this should keep my mortgage account propped up until Jan/Feb 10.

  11. Yesterday I received a letter from my solicitor Ule touting for business. They want to go after the rent bond. I just dont see Alli - see italics comment above - paying up.

One final thing. We, and that includes me, are all guilty of not doing due diligence. MRI made it easy. I never even saw inside my flat. They drove me to the solicitor, notary etc. What I should have done was spend another day in Berlin looking at rents in Rubenstrasse before making the decision. If I had spent time identifying rents to be approx 300E per month and Dr O was paying 370E per month I would have backed off the deal.

But as the saying goes, a degree in hindsight is not of much use.

So have you received any rent at all yet for August? My experience to date has exactly mirrored your's

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