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Berlin - 10 Year Rental Contracts


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€800 which is a lot of money but we don't live there and need someone looking out for our interests.

Was this the same lawyer U.Fis*** that was used to purchase the property? If it is someone else on the forum have recommended another firm but I don't know how much they charged.

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hi all....only found this web site today i am in the same position.i have a contacted a german lawyer the one i used for my purchase..and they have been very helpful.also advised me to NOT SIGN ANYTHING and wait .has they are deciding what action to take next. i cannot attend the meeting in belfast .has i am from england..but will find the number and call to chat with someone..can some one post the name and address of the pub please..thank you

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Hi . New to this. Have apt in Berlin with 10 rental gaurantee from dr ochel. Haven't got anything from Dr ochel yet. Have been in touch with Oleg. Do you have to sign and return the letter to dr ochel before they can make changes.

P

Hi Piper,

We are meeting in the Kings Head Belfast tomorrow night - Wed 7.30 if you want to join us.

we have all been given different information. Hope to try and sort this out as agroup

Hi Buyer,

Wont be at the meeting . Live a good few hours away. Could you put up the Phone number of the Pub on the forum.

Piper

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Got Junes full rent late , Supposed to get Julys rent in July. Wait and see. Is everyone up north or is anyone down south.

Piper

Most of us seem to be from the north , but at the time we bought we were told by (Tim Harris MRI) that a lot had bought from the south.I have a list of about 450 appartments flat numbers prices ect that were sold in2007, there are about 30 odd surnames on the list beside apartment numbers and alot of them seem to be Irish names.

What date in June did you receive June's rent? I don't know why some of us did not receive rent in June and others have. Is this whole charade a lottery? Pipeslice

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I am in London so can't make meeting in Belfast. Would be interested in comparing notes. If you request an upgrade you can send and receive messages.

I have spoken to a German lawyer whose recommendation was to reject any proposal from Dr Ochel. He is looking at the contracts and I expect further advice shortly.

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Most of us seem to be from the north , but at the time we bought we were told by (Tim Harris MRI) that a lot had bought from the south.I have a list of about 450 appartments flat numbers prices ect that were sold in2007, there are about 30 odd surnames on the list beside apartment numbers and alot of them seem to be Irish names.

What date in June did you receive June's rent? I don't know why some of us did not receive rent in June and others have. Is this whole charade a lottery? Pipeslice

I got June rent in the first week of July. I did not buy from MRI.

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I am in London so can't make meeting in Belfast. Would be interested in comparing notes. If you request an upgrade you can send and receive messages.

I have spoken to a German lawyer whose recommendation was to reject any proposal from Dr Ochel. He is looking at the contracts and I expect further advice shortly.

How do you request an upgrade

Piper

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Hi Can you give me the name of your Lawyer that dealt with your situation and can you recommend a good management company. When you say that the rent is less now with the new company can you give me a rough guide to what I should expect if we are to move to a new management company. How long did it take for you to terminate your contract?

Pipeslice

Hello, to answer your questions:

1) My lawyers was a firm called BK Law. Contact name there is Uwe Bottermann ([email protected]). I and several other investors used them to help sort out issues with our rental management company. I have no hesitation in recommending them.

2) The management company I'm now using are called CityGate Immobilien GmbH. (Website is www.citygate-immobilien.de / email is: [email protected]). They are based in Berlin, speak excellent English and seem very efficient. I and several other investors moved over to them when our rental pool company failed.

3) Moving over took about a month to sort out. First, the lawyer wrote to the old management company revoking my POA with them & forbidding them to collect any more rent from my tenant. They also wrote to my tenant informing them to stop paying rent to the old company and to pay it to me direct until further notice. I then set up a new contract with Citygate.

4) Without going into detailed figures, the rent I now receive is about 60% of what I used to receive under the rental pool. However, this entirely depends on the terms of the individual tenancy agreement and they can vary wildly. Basically, Citygate collects the rent & hausgeld contribution from the tenant, pays the full hausgeld (service charge equivalent) to the community of owners, subtracts their management charge and pays me the remainder. If a repair inside the apartment is required, Citigate sort it out and then deduct it from my account, which does mean that the net rent I receive does vary from month to month - and can be sometimes be zero. (Repairs were covered under my old rental pool agreement, but obviously not now).

Hope this helps.

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Mcj

Thanks for this information. Zero does not sound good-does this happen often? Is 60% of original income the best it will ever be?

The plan is that the agent will be able to negotatiate rent increases yearly (within the legal guidelines covering this), so hopefully this figure will rise over time. To answer your other question, no, I don't often get zero rent. However, it is a risk if the flat is in poor condition and needs regular repairs / maintenance (e.g. boiler & central heating failures). So far, I've been fortunate in this respect.

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I spoke to O......S....... this week. He said rent for July should come through 30 July but will be less than previously because Ochel cannot afford to pay subsidy. This is a liquidity problem apparently because they invested in too many properties and now cannot sell them given the fact that MRI have pulled out and the state of the property market generally in europe. Over time they should be able to and then resume paying the subsidy. Ochel do not think they are yet in default because the bonds they deposited will make up the missing rent for some time. Apparently the rents from the tenants should continue to come to us because Kapall GmbH are now collecting the rents from the tenants and Ochel cannot obtain them. The lawyer we dealt with originally has changed firms but O...S.... gave me his number at his new employer and advised me to call him. I have not done so yet. We also received an offer to use O...S.... firm to do translations and negotiate with the tax authorities going forward but I agree it does not seem sensible to rush into paying more fees to others. I think we may wait and see if the reduced rents come through.

Apaprently Allianz have offered to set the bonds against the mortgage thus reducing the term but not the monthly payment. Some owners can also repay 5% of the mortgage pper annum early if they have the funds to reduce the interest expense but apparently not everyone opted for this facility.

We had also put a deposit on property in Romania. Bad news per O...S...... Did anyone else invest in City Residence?

We are in London not Ireland so cannot attend the meeting tomorrow. Let us all know how it goes.

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I spoke to O......S....... this week. He said rent for July should come through 30 July but will be less than previously because Ochel cannot afford to pay subsidy. This is a liquidity problem apparently because they invested in too many properties and now cannot sell them given the fact that MRI have pulled out and the state of the property market generally in europe. Over time they should be able to and then resume paying the subsidy. Ochel do not think they are yet in default because the bonds they deposited will make up the missing rent for some time. Apparently the rents from the tenants should continue to come to us because Kapall GmbH are now collecting the rents from the tenants and Ochel cannot obtain them. The lawyer we dealt with originally has changed firms but O...S.... gave me his number at his new employer and advised me to call him. I have not done so yet. We also received an offer to use O...S.... firm to do translations and negotiate with the tax authorities going forward but I agree it does not seem sensible to rush into paying more fees to others. I think we may wait and see if the reduced rents come through.

Apaprently Allianz have offered to set the bonds against the mortgage thus reducing the term but not the monthly payment. Some owners can also repay 5% of the mortgage pper annum early if they have the funds to reduce the interest expense but apparently not everyone opted for this facility.

We had also put a deposit on property in Romania. Bad news per O...S...... Did anyone else invest in City Residence?

We are in London not Ireland so cannot attend the meeting tomorrow. Let us all know how it goes.

I contacted the solicitor over there about legal fees if we sign the power of atorney and they said it would be "we would charge € 800,- plus Vat for the entire procedure. " just letting everyone know..

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I contacted the solicitor over there about legal fees if we sign the power of atorney and they said it would be "we would charge € 800,- plus Vat for the entire procedure. " just letting everyone know..

What form shall we sign for? Please keep me informed

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Thank goodness for this site

We too have a 10 year deal with Dr Ochel which we finanaced at home rather than through CFP. We are currently missing both June and Julys rent. We have been asked to give permission for the guarantee to be released to help make up the shortfall initially between the actual rent and what we have been receiving. We were about to do that but could not find any documentation to do with this. We sent an email to Dr Ochel and cc'd in the solicitor who handled our conveyancing and the Notar. This was 2 weeks ago and we only got a reply from the solicitor asking us to give him POA to act on our behalf. We emailed him today to say that we didn't need advice or representation. He must have been at his PC because we got an immediate reply asking us to contact him immediately. We rang him and he explained that he could only give limited advice as we have not officially retained him but he did explain that he was already acting for other clients in the same position. He also told us we didn't have the guarantee certificate because this is held by the Notar and that if we allow Dr Ochel to cash in the guarantee it will be lost to us should Dr Ochel go belly up at a later date. It would be better for us to cash it in ourselves and put it towards our mortgage and then retain another management company. We have now decided to give the POA to the solicitor.

I hope you don't mind if we attend your meeting in the Kings Head also.

We have the same situation as you, our solicitor said is better to wait for Official action, then he can help us if things remain no change, O..S told me today that we will get nearly halved amount for July rental and June rental has gone missing...

Please keep me informed if there is any update after meeting.

Poliform UK LTD, account department, chloe

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Nairek

I think we need legal advice from a German lawyer on this! I am running around in circles and getting no straight answers-got a letter from Ochel today looking me to get bank to release over E3000 against the morgtgae to keep payments at same level-did anyone else get thsi?

Yes we have got the same letter but will not take any action to this, Dr O is in mess the moment, perhaps they haven't found out what they really want to say.

The cash is our money, cash that in means the lost to us.

Please keep us informed on any update.

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Was this the same lawyer U.Fis*** that was used to purchase the property? If it is someone else on the forum have recommended another firm but I don't know how much they charged.

Can we have quot for acting for group of people, that will bring down the cost.

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can any one suggest of a time and a place to meet in belfast next week , some evening.

Hi Pipeslice

We are in the same situation as you are, please let us know what to do next, We would like to join you to seek group action,

if you log on Poliform uk Ltd website, call for their account department, ask for Chole, who will give you more info on the updates

We must stay together...

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I have also been caught up with this Dr O scandal. Although Dr O is not bankcrupt they are short of funds and looking to the rental bonds to cover the rental shortfall. However I think Allianz may not agree to releasing the bonds as it is in security for the mortgage. I don't trust O*** S******** to sort this out. Would be happy to join a joint legal action with everyone else.

Please let me know any updates

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We have re-read the document Dr Ochel wanted us to sign and realised that the reason we haven't received any rent for June was because they intended the full June payment to be paid out of the Bank guarantee and then from 1st July we would receive part payment from Dr Ochel and the rest from the bank guarantee. Since we haven't signed and returned the document they have obviously decided not to pay us anything.

We also found an email from O*** S dated 23rd June and it mentions the same thing.

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