Berlin - 10 Year Rental Contracts

[dericag]

Hi dericag

I thought there were two management companies - a condominium one responsible for building maintenance (BWG) and another one responsible for collecting rent, paying us, our rates and the condominium company, and answering our queries (Dr Ochel). I could be wrong. I think there may also have been a change in responsibilities at some stage??

There was a delay in Dr O paying our rates and we have received no rent for some time. If BWG are still on the scene I just wondered if they are still being paid or can they claim against us as the owners?

OS confirmed that the rent the tenant is paying is lower than what we were receiving (possibly it started off lower and Dr O was going to increase it over the 10 yr period to ensure that we always got the guaranteed rent?) If this is the case and we cancel our contract with Dr O we will get less rent and will also have management company bills to pay so may end up with very little? Saying that we're getting nothing at present. You said you were only paying the management company 18 euros/month (or did I misunderstand this). This seems very low for building maintenance/rent collection etc. Also can different owners have different management companies (surely only one company will clean the building/maintain the lifts etc)? How does this work?

Did you use N & F after all? Could they not give you any idea what was going on with Dr O? Has all modernisation ceased or is it possible it may still happen.

Thanks.

You are right, there are in fact 2 management companies,one is maintenance and the other is collects rent

As for my property at Peter vischer, according to the draft contract it is stated there is no outstanding that no arrears of maintenance and management charges existed as at 30 November 2009#

For my 2 bedrooms flat the breakdown of the rental is as follow

Warm rent/ gross rent/ actual rental paid by tenant: 446 Euro

Cold rental ( Gross rent after deducting maintenance charges): 328Euro

Net rental ( Cold rent deducting management fee): 310 Euro

Therefore 310 Euro is the amount will be credited into my bank account

I use N & F and my contact is PS.

I have no clue what's going on with Dr Ochel, I didnt meet up wif, in short aint bovvered.

Modernisation will cease if you terminate your contract wif Dr ochel or they go into insolveancy, Pablo has the list, called him and check wif him

[dericag]

Good news guys, got an email from PS and he said the bank has released the compensation

Dear Miss Gan,

I will check it out. Please provide me with your bank details as the bankers guarantee has been cashed in (€ 3105,90).

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Pablo S. Solar

Associate

[newlon]

Anybody still not settled with dr o, please advise as i just start off a case with lawyer in germany , any advise what you got when you settled , anybody wnet through with the lower agreement . all answers help my lawyer to deal with them . all appreciated

[larry93]

According to OS our cold rent is quite a bit less than the rent we were originally promised. There are 'Hausgeld' charges of ~150 euros and a home owners association fee of 13 euros. I was worried that these would have to come off the cold rent as I thought the difference between warm and cold rent was the tenants own utility bills, not the condominium bills, rates etc. I'm not sure how this is all worked out. If I deduct the 'Hausgeld' charges from the warm rent, I don't end up with the cold rent and still end up with rent ~ 140 euros less that originally promised.

We never received the actual rent promised - the discrepany was the home owners association fee of 13 euros (for several months they were charging us ~ 50 euros but then they finally admitted they'd made a mistake and brought it down to 13 euros).

Dericag, I'm glad you've managed to sort things out with your apartment. I will call PS tomorrow to see if he can advise me.

[larry93]

Dericag, how does the 310 euros rent you are receiving compare with the rent originally promised by Dr O?

Has anyone tried selling their apartment?

Thanks

[KatC]

Good news guys, got an email from PS and he said the bank has released the compensation

Dear Miss Gan,

I will check it out. Please provide me with your bank details as the bankers guarantee has been cashed in (€ 3105,90).

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Pablo S. Solar

Associate

Hi Decraig,

Just a query on the settlement that PS negotiated for you - did he draw up a new management agreement with another company that's not connected to Dr Ochel?

[larry93]

Have your maintenance costs always been as low as ~120 euros for a 2 bedroom apt? Ours are ~ 170 euros for a 1 bedroom apt.

Does anyone have any meetings planned for Belfast. I am nowhere near 30 posts so can't mail anyone.

Thanks

[larry93]

Has Dr Ochel any connection to the company that carries out the maintenance? Our maintenance costs seem very high and the rent seems very low. Surely someone somewhere must have made money out of this? Did we pay a stupid price for our apartment, just to get the rent and management fees paid, or were the apartments on their own worth near to what we paid at the time? Did anyone look into this at the time?

What are other people's maintenance costs?

Thanks

[dericag]

According to OS our cold rent is quite a bit less than the rent we were originally promised. There are 'Hausgeld' charges of ~150 euros and a home owners association fee of 13 euros. I was worried that these would have to come off the cold rent as I thought the difference between warm and cold rent was the tenants own utility bills, not the condominium bills, rates etc. I'm not sure how this is all worked out. If I deduct the 'Hausgeld' charges from the warm rent, I don't end up with the cold rent and still end up with rent ~ 140 euros less that originally promised.

We never received the actual rent promised - the discrepany was the home owners association fee of 13 euros (for several months they were charging us ~ 50 euros but then they finally admitted they'd made a mistake and brought it down to 13 euros).

Dericag, I'm glad you've managed to sort things out with your apartment. I will call PS tomorrow to see if he can advise me.

We were too navie to think that everything will be taken care by MRI, Dr Ochel or even or solicitor.

We should have pay attention to the details and figures

[newlon]

Still Dr. o but breaking up looking to replace kapall have 2 management companies lined up one for 15 euros and the other one just established but no price none yet . as we go out of the contract we do not need to take any companies over . May change bsw too and have all the companies released who worked with dr.o .

When bought the Flat i did let it survey by the bank not A before and the value was 18.000 - 20.000 Euro`s less than 120 k .

if you need names off the Managment companies please advise .

[the agenda eh12]

Dear All,

Apologies for not inputting any info since 18 Sept. For some odd reason I cant log onto this website at work and I always found an excuse when at home not to visit the website. However, this week has proved to be fairly eventful so I've spent the last hour reading other peoples input.

Since my last scried on 18 Sept the following has happened:

1. I received rent for Sept and Oct.

2. The German tax authorities have accepted my tax return and have accepted that I run at a loss for 2008 - wait until they see the tax retun for 2009!!

3. In late sept we accepted Dr O/Alli offer to break the rental contract and we would receive the 3872E which Alli would use to reduce the outstanding mortgage.

4. (Where does Alli get the idea that CFP are my POA) In early Nov Alli employee (Gormann-Ernst, Irmtraud) sent me a threatening email saying I had to get OS to be my POA. I sent a reply emailing telling her to take a hike.

5. Then it all went quite until this week.

6. Received Alli bank statement and discovered November did not exist.: no rent payment and no mortgage payment.

7. Received letter from Alli about 3872E, so it looks like movement on that front. My partner is currently getting the letter translated.

8. Received another letter from another doctor (there seems to be a lot of them in Germany), J Grote, who wants to be my POA. His spiel was not on letterhead paper and it was not signed. For the time being I intend to ignore this bloke.

9. Yesterday I got a threatening letter from Alli about not paying the mortgage. I can only assume that I have not received rent for Nov and Dec. I will phone them on Monday to find out what is happening.

Dericag, I am please the situation is working out for you. How are you getting on with the modernisation bond?

Right now, I am off to the Agenda for a beer and to chill out. Then I've got tickets to see Avatar. Maybe watching something in 3D will make me see things more clearly.

Keith

[the agenda eh12]

ps, Newton...

Whilst I hope your management company research works out, I just dont see it as viable for any company to only charge 15E per month. In Edinburgh the standard charge is 12.5%-15% per month of the rental..

[larry93]

My concern isn't the 18 euros we will pay our new management company, but the large amount I think we will end up paying for the condominium company, rates, utility etc. May have undetstood this - hope so!

[Fritz]

i got a letter from dr o,that the refurbishment of our flat in Berlin is finished(confirmed by Tuev Sued)

checked it this week.

Since the tenant left the flat, there is no bit of refurbishment or modernisation.

ABSOLUT NOTHING!!!!!!!!

The Confirmation of the Tuev Sued must be a mistake or a fake.

It seemed to be a new Job for my solicitor.

[newlon]

i got a letter from dr o,that the refurbishment of our flat in Berlin is finished(confirmed by Tuev Sued)

checked it this week.

Since the tenant left the flat, there is no bit of refurbishment or modernisation.

ABSOLUT NOTHING!!!!!!!!

The Confirmation of the Tuev Sued must be a mistake or a fake.

It seemed to be a new Job for my solicitor.

got aswell the Tuev Sued letter from Dr. O,for my flats . It means Tuev has checked your Flat for faults and has found following items either to do or done or has to be clarified .

check in the third coloumn you can see a F ( Feststellung ) Noted , Identification , M for (Maengel ) Fault , X to clarify and there are more signs .

check as well when the date of inspection was as your flat was .

Now after the Confirmation it is on Dr. O to react .

[dericag]

Hi dericag

I thought there were two management companies - a condominium one responsible for building maintenance (BWG) and another one responsible for collecting rent, paying us, our rates and the condominium company, and answering our queries (Dr Ochel). I could be wrong. I think there may also have been a change in responsibilities at some stage??

There was a delay in Dr O paying our rates and we have received no rent for some time. If BWG are still on the scene I just wondered if they are still being paid or can they claim against us as the owners?

OS confirmed that the rent the tenant is paying is lower than what we were receiving (possibly it started off lower and Dr O was going to increase it over the 10 yr period to ensure that we always got the guaranteed rent?) If this is the case and we cancel our contract with Dr O we will get less rent and will also have management company bills to pay so may end up with very little? Saying that we're getting nothing at present. You said you were only paying the management company 18 euros/month (or did I misunderstand this). This seems very low for building maintenance/rent collection etc. Also can different owners have different management companies (surely only one company will clean the building/maintain the lifts etc)? How does this work?

Did you use N & F after all? Could they not give you any idea what was going on with Dr O? Has all modernisation ceased or is it possible it may still happen.

Thanks.

Hi Larry,

Sorry for the late reply my dad had a heart attack and flew back to visit him for 2 weeks

If you do own the property at Rubenstrase and according to Pablo.S there is no outstanding payment due from BWG as at 30th Nov (about there). This means Dr Ochel has paid the maintenance fees to BWG

My flat has been reburbish and I was able to get more rental than the guaranteed rent

May I ask if your flat has been modernised??? You should find out the statue of your flat before making the next move

[dericag]

Dear All,

Apologies for not inputting any info since 18 Sept. For some odd reason I cant log onto this website at work and I always found an excuse when at home not to visit the website. However, this week has proved to be fairly eventful so I've spent the last hour reading other peoples input.

Since my last scried on 18 Sept the following has happened:

1. I received rent for Sept and Oct.

2. The German tax authorities have accepted my tax return and have accepted that I run at a loss for 2008 - wait until they see the tax retun for 2009!!

3. In late sept we accepted Dr O/Alli offer to break the rental contract and we would receive the 3872E which Alli would use to reduce the outstanding mortgage.

4. (Where does Alli get the idea that CFP are my POA) In early Nov Alli employee (Gormann-Ernst, Irmtraud) sent me a threatening email saying I had to get OS to be my POA. I sent a reply emailing telling her to take a hike.

5. Then it all went quite until this week.

6. Received Alli bank statement and discovered November did not exist.: no rent payment and no mortgage payment.

7. Received letter from Alli about 3872E, so it looks like movement on that front. My partner is currently getting the letter translated.

8. Received another letter from another doctor (there seems to be a lot of them in Germany), J Grote, who wants to be my POA. His spiel was not on letterhead paper and it was not signed. For the time being I intend to ignore this bloke.

9. Yesterday I got a threatening letter from Alli about not paying the mortgage. I can only assume that I have not received rent for Nov and Dec. I will phone them on Monday to find out what is happening.

Dericag, I am please the situation is working out for you. How are you getting on with the modernisation bond?

Right now, I am off to the Agenda for a beer and to chill out. Then I've got tickets to see Avatar. Maybe watching something in 3D will make me see things more clearly.

Keith

Hi keith,

Havent seen you on the forum for a long time, hope you doing well!!!

Avatar, great movie, hopefully i have time to catch it this weekend

My flat has been modernise so this is not an issue for me but need more confirmation for modernisation.

I have requested the below-mentioed document from PS

1) A copy of modernisation certification including E-Check ; According to the sale agreement, a qualified third party shall supervise the carrying out of the modernisation works and finally certify the condition of the flat as reflecting the modernisation specification. So please can I have this report before releasing Dr Ochel.

2) A copy of my latest tenancy agreement

[dericag]

i got a letter from dr o,that the refurbishment of our flat in Berlin is finished(confirmed by Tuev Sued)

checked it this week.

Since the tenant left the flat, there is no bit of refurbishment or modernisation.

ABSOLUT NOTHING!!!!!!!!

The Confirmation of the Tuev Sued must be a mistake or a fake.

It seemed to be a new Job for my solicitor.

May I ask who is Tuev Sued??

Cos I am also asking for a similar report from my solicitor aswell.

[newlon]

May I ask who is Tuev Sued??

Cos I am also asking for a similar report from my solicitor aswell.

TUEV means MOT and Sued means ( South ) the Area who made the Checklist , after this checklist ,DR. O has to react and ratify the shortcomings .

[dericag]

i got a letter from dr o,that the refurbishment of our flat in Berlin is finished(confirmed by Tuev Sued)

checked it this week.

Since the tenant left the flat, there is no bit of refurbishment or modernisation.

ABSOLUT NOTHING!!!!!!!!

The Confirmation of the Tuev Sued must be a mistake or a fake.

It seemed to be a new Job for my solicitor.

How and when did you find out the confirmation from Tuev Sued is either a mistake or fake,

and so how did know that there isnt any refurbishment in your flat ??

Please advise me as I am also expecting this letter from my solicitor

Thanks

[larry93]

Did anyone receive a months rent at the end of December?

[larry93]

Dericag,

Hope everything is ok with you.

If the apartment is not modernised is it better to wait and see what happens than change management company?

If the apartment has been modernised will Dr Ochel have increased the rent he charges the tenant - it is still very low?

Thanks.

[tbl123]

Has anyone looked into selling their flat ? Given the weakness of the £ it may be possible to recover what was paid even if the value has gone down. I would be interested to hear if anyone has spoken to local agents/got a valuation.

[Fritz]

How and when did you find out the confirmation from Tuev Sued is either a mistake or fake,

and so how did know that there isnt any refurbishment in your flat ??

Please advise me as I am also expecting this letter from my solicitor

Thanks

Hi dericag,

I visited Berlin in December and checked the flat.I saw with my own eyes that there was nothing done.All the more I was surprised that there was

the confirmation(Date:Oktober) of the Tuev Sued.I called Tuev Sued how this could happen. :

Before the refurbishment begins,the Tuev checks the flat and instructs Dr O,Kapall,UTB or whomever,what is to do to fulfill the conditions of the

modernisation contract(and to get the modernisation bond).When the refurbishment is done Dr.O. gives a report to Tuev Sued that the flat is ok.

Finally Tuev Sued gives Dr.O. the confirmation that the refurbishment is finished.There is no 2.Check!!!!!.

Unfortunately Dr O forgot to refurbish our flat before he gives the report to the Tuev.

I would like to apologize for my English,because it's not my mother tongue

[the agenda eh12]

Thought I would give you all another update.

I am still not sure what is happening about the rent. I spent over £40 in the last couple of weeks phoning German and listening to answerphone messages and unanswered phones. It does not take a genious to work out that with this sort of cost and with no result, Oleg S services suddenly look attractive. So I am in the process of using him as my Agency of Service for 150E + VAT. That will at least get Alli of my back.

The little bit of info he has given me includes the following:

1. It looks like I am going to have to hire the services of PS again - or maybe the solicitor Oleg S recommends.

2. Even though I've been paid off with the rental guarantee bond Dr O are still collecting the rent.

3. Oleg S also mentions the maintenance guarantee (not modernisation guarantee). Has anybody got any info on this one?

Message for Newton - I am due you an apology as I've just discovered 20-22E per month is about the going rate property management companies charge. Sorry I doubted your wisdom!

Dericag - have you left Dr O yet and if you have who is your new property management company?

Keith