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Cable On The Ball Again! - MERGED


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Interesting that this is much closer to Conservative thinking than Labour.Maybe an indication who the LibDems would side with under a "hung" parliament if by some miracle it happened.

Or possibly more a case of trying not to look like a carbon copy of a stunningly unpopular government.

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The key challenge to our economic system - How do we cope with a vast surplus of labour and restricted natural resources?

The age old answer to this has been mass slaughter of ethnic groups. Whilst it's still very popular amongst governments, it's quite unpopular amongst everyone else.

We need to reward idleness and non-consumption as well as rewarding work and innovation. Means testing of benefits doesn't achieve this.

I think the only answer is a citizens income that allows everyone a basic quality of life... basic food, basic clothing, basic shelter. Taxation based on consumption not labour.

Edited by dazednconfused
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Well done! The first sensible post in the numerous (and increasingly idiotic) threads about cutting benefits. The problem with the "Cut tax and my wife will go to the hairdressers more often" argument is, as you allude to, that it is a bit simplistic.

The problem is well baked in the pie. It has taken us 10 years to get in this mess and it runs right through the system. Changing suddenly would be akin to a revolution and would have unintended consequences. Thatcher had north sea oil money in the 80s to keep the books balanced during the last major shake-up, and even then there was mass unrest. This time reform would be coming at a time of massive personal debt and government deficits with no obvious way of keeping everything ticking along during a rocky transition.

There is of cause something fundamentally wrong with a welfare system that pays out more in benefits than it collects in income tax. Add the fact that if you have kids you have to be earning over £65k - well over the average family income - before you considered wealthy enough not to require benefits. Benefits should not reach anywhere near that far up the income scale. And nobody's even mentioned the elephant in the room that is public sector pension liabilities.

Vince Cable is the only mainstream politician telling it like it is on this issue. Labour are obviously part of the problem and therefore not part of the solution, but the Tories are too scared to speak the truth, probably because they are playing for votes of mortgaged-up "middle class families" (in the Daily Mail sense of the phrase), but it does make you call into question the entire democratic system when populism can so easily trump economic reality.

I would disagree with the statement it's taken us 10 years to get into this mess, the foundations of this crisis where laid decades ago and have been ignored by successive govts.

I would also argue that North Oil managed to mask the failure of Tory policies no real long term investment happened it was fritted away with tax cuts.

It's crazy that you need an income of over £65k before you can survive without govt handouts, but then again household costs have rocketed beyond what is sustainable without it. The entire economic system is a FAIL.

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I would also argue that North Oil managed to mask the failure of Tory policies no real long term investment happened it was fritted away with tax cuts.

North Sea Oil and Gas was a failure of Tory policies. Production should have been carefully rationed with an eye to the long-term. Instead they had an energy blow-out, squandering reserves at rock-bottom prices to solve immediate problems (which admittedly were challenging) without any thought for the long term ... typical behaviour of British politicians and electorates, sadly.

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So we are going to cure the economic ills of the country by squeezing the poor while the rich get off scot-free. Madness.

I think this is where you socialists just don't get it. It's not a question of money. Money is just a number. It's a question of resources and labour. A zillionaire can only eat so much food etc. What hurts is when a large number of the population are just chomping and not producing, supported by fewer workers. Take money from the rich and give to the poor and all you will have is rising prices and shortages.

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The key challenge to our economic system - How do we cope with a vast surplus of labour and restricted natural resources?

The age old answer to this has been mass slaughter of ethnic groups. Whilst it's still very popular amongst governments, it's quite unpopular amongst everyone else.

We need to reward idleness and non-consumption as well as rewarding work and innovation. Means testing of benefits doesn't achieve this.

I think the only answer is a citizens income that allows everyone a basic quality of life... basic food, basic clothing, basic shelter. Taxation based on consumption not labour.

I like your idea, I could become an idle tw*t and receive a citizens income for doing nothing.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...r-pensions.html

Vince seems to be putting forward where Lib-Dem policy will be for the general election.Reform of public sector pay and pensions and the end to tax credits for everyone but the very poorest.

Interesting that this is much closer to Conservative thinking than Labour.Maybe an indication who the LibDems would side with under a "hung" parliament if by some miracle it happened.

Ironic that Brown made Blair sack the only MP in The Labour party who would of stopped these disasters before they happened,Frank Field.If he wasnt MP for Birkenhead i think he would of crossed the floor to the LibDems by now.

It doesn't matter how honest or how much integrity he's got, the very fact that Frank Field is a member of the Labour party makes him a total idiot. And as for your first point; I could think of worser outcomes to the next general election than a Lib-Dem-Con power sharing Government.

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So we are going to cure the economic ills of the country by squeezing the poor while the rich get off scot-free. Madness.

When you say "the poor" do you mean those with no jobs that are some how still able to afford playstations, mp3 players and wide screen TV's?

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Tax credits are a con....we don't want credits we want to pay less tax, higher personal allowances like it used to be not...take mega from one hand and give a token gesture in the other. ;)

Edit: I can't image what it costs to administrate this, a complete fiasco.

Edited by winkie
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On the contrary, it is those who are 40 and above who have paid far more than their share in supporting the benefits cheats, dole scroungers and public sector leeches of this country.

We have paid for our retirement many times over, and the government has blown it buying votes from the slackers of society, and yes, from the young.

Now that money has to be repaid to our generations, and there are only two ways to do it. Massively increase taxes, or allow us to benefit from HPI. Pick your poison, but you'll be paying either way...

People with opinions like this will be first against the wall when the war comes.

And have no doubts, a war is coming. An entire generation isn't going to submit to becoming slaves while another retires in comfort.

Deaths first... yours not mine.

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I like your idea, I could become an idle tw*t and receive a citizens income for doing nothing.

Yep. That bit is exactly the same as now.

The difference is you can then work and be rewarded for that work, even if it's only 1 hour a week. With the current system, you get practically nothing for doing essential work as compared to doing nothing, which leads to a class of no good loafers, most people working their arses off, and the idle rich.

We need to spread the work around.

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North Sea Oil and Gas was a failure of Tory policies. Production should have been carefully rationed with an eye to the long-term. Instead they had an energy blow-out, squandering reserves at rock-bottom prices to solve immediate problems (which admittedly were challenging) without any thought for the long term ... typical behaviour of British politicians and electorates, sadly.

Is there anything else other than short-termism in politics?

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On the contrary, it is those who are 40 and above who have paid far more than their share in supporting the benefits cheats, dole scroungers and public sector leeches of this country.

We have paid for our retirement many times over, and the government has blown it buying votes from the slackers of society, and yes, from the young.

Now that money has to be repaid to our generations, and there are only two ways to do it. Massively increase taxes, or allow us to benefit from HPI. Pick your poison, but you'll be paying either way.......

You are completely delusional. When it gets bad enough the young will simply take what what they want from the old.

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I like your idea, I could become an idle tw*t and receive a citizens income for doing nothing.

So you're saying you would be a worthless layabout that is inspired by nothing other than surviving the price fixing racket thats supporting the wage structure of a dying country? Are you saying you would have no ambition to do anything other than sit and watch repeats of Friends in widescreen while feeding your dog the last dregs of special brew left in the can before retiring to bed for a another blissful night of dreamless darkness? Sounds good <_<

Edited by godless
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