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Airbus Fears China's Aviation Industry May Soon Challenge Britain's Wing Production

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...ays-Airbus.html

Thomas Enders, Airbus's president, said the Chinese are "very eager and very ambitious" and likely to catch up with Western levels of productivity at Airbus sites in China within two to three years.

"Right now the UK is the supplier of wings for the Airbus family but that doesn't mean the Chinese can't build a good wing," he told the Telegraph. "If we underestimate our Chinese friends, there will be a problem. Europe is not the only play in town.

"The UK has got to keep an edge in research and technology. As long as the UK maintains competitive working conditions, Wales is OK," he said, referring to Airbus's wing plant at Broughton in North Wales.

The comments came as Airbus delivered its first "Made in China" A320 jet to local carrier Sichuan Airlines, a key moment for Asia's fast-rising aeronautics industry.

The Airbus plant in the port city of Tianjin – a replica of the A320 hangar in Hamburg – has cranked up at breathtaking speed since opening last September.

Tianjin is already producing one jet a month, which will rise to four by 2011 – chiefly aimed at voracious Chinese demand. A320 output in Europe will start declining this year. The shift to the East is striking.

The A320 is the popular workhorse of the Airbus stable. Components are mostly manufactured in Europe but Chinese plants are already producing the wing boxes and other wing parts, which are, for now, then shipped to Broughton for finishing.

The technology of the A320 is no longer cutting-edge. However, Airbus engineers in Beijing are already working on carbon-composite technology for the next-generation A350 XWB, creeping into an area once deemed the preserve of Airbus UK.

Airbus employs 13,000 people in the UK, but British influence over the company has waned since BAE Systems sold its 20pc share two years ago.

Mr Enders said the willingness of the British government to provide launch finance for the A350 is "critically important" to the way that Airbus views its commitment to Britain – although there is no explicit linkage.

So that will be these UK jobs heading to China.

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I just don't understand why anyone is surprised. A blind man could see this coming 5 years ago.

I wrote as much to the Sec of State for DT&I when it was Patricia Hewitt and the reply i got was laughable in its ignorance.

There is MUCH MUCH worse to come.

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This is rubbish. The wing technology is a very advanced composite using an equally advanced manufacturing technique. The UK at the moment is the only place in the world that these are made successfully. Boeing are trying to use the same technique to build the Dreamliner and can not get it to work properly (too heavy to fly) just do a search for dreamliner delays, another one announced today.

If the French and German bosses at Airbus give the secrets of these techniques to China then we should send our Typhoons to bomb all the Airbus and EADS factories back to the stone age. Thank god the wing factory is not owned by Airbus but GKN.

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This is rubbish. The wing technology is a very advanced composite using an equally advanced manufacturing technique. The UK at the moment is the only place in the world that these are made successfully. Boeing are trying to use the same technique to build the Dreamliner and can not get it to work properly (too heavy to fly) just do a search for dreamliner delays, another one announced today.

If the French and German bosses at Airbus give the secrets of these techniques to China then we should send our Typhoons to bomb all the Airbus and EADS factories back to the stone age. Thank god the wing factory is not owned by Airbus but GKN.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...iner-again.html

The aerospace company had confirmed at last week's Paris Air Show that the environmentally-friendly jet, which is already two years late, was on track to make its maiden flight by the end of June.

It will now be "several weeks" before a new flight and delivery schedule is announced.

"Consideration was given to a temporary solution that would allow us to fly as scheduled," said Scott Carson, chief executive of Boeing's commercial plane business. "We ultimately concluded that the right thing was to develop, design, test and incorporate a permanent modification."

The problem with the in the unspecified area of the aircraft's body area is not a result of the materials being used, Boeing said. Adding the reinforcement will add a small amount of weight to the aircraft, according to company executives.

Is this what the problem is here?

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This is rubbish. The wing technology is a very advanced composite using an equally advanced manufacturing technique. The UK at the moment is the only place in the world that these are made successfully. Boeing are trying to use the same technique to build the Dreamliner and can not get it to work properly (too heavy to fly) just do a search for dreamliner delays, another one announced today.

If the French and German bosses at Airbus give the secrets of these techniques to China then we should send our Typhoons to bomb all the Airbus and EADS factories back to the stone age. Thank god the wing factory is not owned by Airbus but GKN.

How long do you think transient technical edge can resist the tide of low costs and superior education from the east.

It's delaying at best. People need to wake up to what's coming.

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How long do you think transient technical edge can resist the tide of low costs and superior education from the east.

It's delaying at best. People need to wake up to what's coming.

There is a difference between being able to copy and being able to design.

I worked on these technologies 25 years ago when the process was just starting. The yanks have been trying for the last 15 years and we share info with them and they can not match it. So it should take China at least 15 years that is if the traitors across the channel do not give them the secrets.

Do not forget Chinas priority at the moment is to provide gainful employment for its masses. It does not want highly automated manufacturing that employess a few hundred people and lots of machines. It wants ineffcient manufacturing that employs lots of people for not a lot of money.

Do they invest 300 million in an automated plant or incest 300 million in employing 30,000 people on 10K usd a year.

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
I just don't understand why anyone is surprised. A blind man could see this coming 5 years ago.

I wrote as much to the Sec of State for DT&I when it was Patricia Hewitt and the reply i got was laughable in its ignorance.

There is MUCH MUCH worse to come.

It's not surprise rather dismay. What's your proposed solution btw? Aerospace engineeers in the UK bring their wage demands down to the same level as their Chinese counterparts?

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
How long do you think transient technical edge can resist the tide of low costs and superior education from the east.

It's delaying at best. People need to wake up to what's coming.

The glee with which you look forward to the collapse of livings standards of people in the UK is really quite sickening.

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Correct IRRO, They announced another delay today. THe problem is they are putting these little reinforment bits in all over the show, so that it is npow one massive reenforcement all over and the weight gain means it ways as much as the aluminium one it is meant to replace, which means no contractually promised fule savings to customers which means no customers want to buy it.

Edit : would change the spelling but it means I have to leave the wine alone for too long.

Edited by ralphmalph

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Correct IRRO, They announced another delay today. THe problem is they are putting these little reinforment bits in all over the show, so that it is npow one massive reenforcement all over and the weight gain means it ways as much as the aluminium one it is meant to replace, which means no contractually promised fule savings to customers which means no customers want to buy it.

Edit : would change the spelling but it means I have to leave the wine alone for too long.

Easy solution, just buy the wings from the UK and deliver on time.

God I should be in management. :P

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The glee with which you look forward to the collapse of livings standards of people in the UK is really quite sickening.

You see, if there were more proper capitalists in this country we wouldn't be in this mess.

It's numpties like you with your childish fantasies about dependency and handouts who get the country into this mess. Our education is a shambles and our next generation are like sheep waiting for the slaughter. All because their edge was dulled by complacent socialists like you.

But never mind, you go back to being angry at everyone for how the World works and dreaming up new profit share schemes for unskilled people while the land of proper capitalism gets to work buying us up. Whatever makes you feel better I guess.

And leave saving your livelihood to the capitalists who will employ you in some capacity one day. We know you won't say thanks of course.

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This is rubbish. The wing technology is a very advanced composite using an equally advanced manufacturing technique. The UK at the moment is the only place in the world that these are made successfully. Boeing are trying to use the same technique to build the Dreamliner and can not get it to work properly (too heavy to fly) just do a search for dreamliner delays, another one announced today.

If the French and German bosses at Airbus give the secrets of these techniques to China then we should send our Typhoons to bomb all the Airbus and EADS factories back to the stone age. Thank god the wing factory is not owned by Airbus but GKN.

duh-duh1233387823.jpg

Don't talk shite!

Analysis: A case for the US increasing its Raptor purchase

Since US President George W Bush's 1 May 2003 speech aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) declaring an end to major combat operations in Iraq, the US Air Force (USAF) has been fighting a low-intensity war on two fronts for which its inventory is poorly suited.

Since that time the USAF has been criticised for spending its strained budget on programmes that have little or no relevance to events on the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq. It has been argued in Washington that money could be better spent on platforms with more immediate applications, particularly with regards to intelligence, surveillance and recconnaisance (ISR) assets. Lockheed Martin's costly F-22 Raptor fighter aircraft is seen as an example of this unresponsive procurement strategy with the number to be acquired reduced from 381 to 183 as a result of political and budgetary pressures.

Given Russia's invasion of Georgia on behalf of the breakaway region of South Ossetia on 8 August, some of the lost emphasis on preparing to fight potential future conventional war is likely to have been rediscovered. Jane's believes the case for extending the procurement of the F-22 has seemingly been strengthened by events in the Caucasus. While the conflict in Georgia will not establish a firm requirement for additional Raptors, it will give more credence to those voices that advocate the potential for future conflict with advanced states.

After almost two decades of post-Soviet neglect, the Russian Air Force has begun a long, slow process of modernisation, the centrepiece of which is a plan to induct a fifth-generation fighter aircraft of its own by 2015.

Simultaneously, in China both Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and Chengdu Aircraft Corporation have been involved in a fifth-generation fighter programme, dubbed J-XX.

While Jane's understands that it is doubtful these aircraft will be as technologically advanced as their US counterparts, both aircraft have been designed with Lockheed Martin's fifth-generation F-22 and F-35 Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in mind.

While the JSF programme will ensure that an additional 1,763 F-35 fifth-generation multirole fighters will enter service with the USAF alongside the F-22, it should be remembered that the F-35 was designed with a 70 per cent air-to-ground and 30 per cent air-to-air focus. While this does not mean that the Chinese and Russian designs will be a more a capable air superiority platform, neither does it guarantee that the F-35 will have the upper hand. The F-22 represents the technological pinnacle of the USAF's current air-to-air combat capability, while the F-35 does not.

And of course, you must be right, because the Chinese are a bunch of farmers....

800px-J-10a_zhas.png

And just imagine the look on the worlds face when they roll out the J-XX stealth...

Edited by cashinmattress

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Easy solution, just buy the wings from the UK and deliver on time.

God I should be in management. :P

I believe Airbus bought all the capacity to keep boeing out. Look out for an annoucment of a EU composite wing mountain sometime in the future.

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There is a difference between being able to copy and being able to design.

I worked on these technologies 25 years ago when the process was just starting. The yanks have been trying for the last 15 years and we share info with them and they can not match it. So it should take China at least 15 years that is if the traitors across the channel do not give them the secrets.

Do not forget Chinas priority at the moment is to provide gainful employment for its masses. It does not want highly automated manufacturing that employess a few hundred people and lots of machines. It wants ineffcient manufacturing that employs lots of people for not a lot of money.

Do they invest 300 million in an automated plant or incest 300 million in employing 30,000 people on 10K usd a year.

Even if they thought that was a choice they have enough dosh to to both 10 times over.

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duh-duh1233387823.jpg

Don't talk shite!

Analysis: A case for the US increasing its Raptor purchase

And of course, you must be right, because the Chinese are a bunch of farmers....

800px-J-10a_zhas.png

And just imagine the look on the worlds face when they roll out the J-XX stealth...

You really are an idiot. Do you understand anything about mathmatics and physics.

What is the difference between basically a fighter - that has loads of power to weight ratio and an airliner that has relatively low power to weight ratio.

The Yanks can build stealth composite fighters in 1) small numbers and at basically any price for the military. It is a very different thing to build something that uses the same technology but at about 200 x the size. Think your maths equations for volume and weight or think about skinny people and lardy **** people. The lardy **** people do not have to double in external area to double in wieght is the clue.

If you are so dumb then please do not comment stick to your cut and paste rubbish jobs.

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You see, if there were more proper capitalists in this country we wouldn't be in this mess.

It's numpties like you with your childish fantasies about dependency and handouts who get the country into this mess. Our education is a shambles and our next generation are like sheep waiting for the slaughter. All because their edge was dulled by complacent socialists like you.

But never mind, you go back to being angry at everyone for how the World works and dreaming up new profit share schemes for unskilled people while the land of proper capitalism gets to work buying us up. Whatever makes you feel better I guess.

And leave saving your livelihood to the capitalists who will employ you in some capacity one day. We know you won't say thanks of course.

but but but Boggy, they are all entitled :lol::lol:

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Airbus engineers in Beijing are already working on carbon-composite technology for the next-generation A350 XWB, creeping into an area once deemed the preserve of Airbus UK.

That's just not true, that's my job.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...ays-Airbus.html

So that will be these UK jobs heading to China.

Hmmm I smell politics - nothing to do with the fact that the UK is likely to pull out of the A400m project due to France's inability to build a working engine.

A400M white elephant

Notice a similar threat is being made in Telegraph article... "British industry has warned that pulling out of the A400M could hurt future expertise in aerospace. Up to 8,000 jobs would be at risk, as well as the UK's position as the world leader in aircraft wing technology. The Society of British Aerospace Companies said that Germany and Spain would pick up wing-making work for Airbus if Britain does not fund the A400M."

Before anyone gets upset lets all think about the fact that the project to build the A400 started in 1982... thats 27 years ago.. if Airbus had built the Spitfire we'd all be speaking German...

I say ****** 'EM - 27 years and the gits still can't make a plane that meets the basic operation requirements whilst our troops are suffering in theatre due to lack of adequate air supply.

Edited by Krackersdave

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You really are an idiot. Do you understand anything about mathmatics and physics.

What is the difference between basically a fighter - that has loads of power to weight ratio and an airliner that has relatively low power to weight ratio.

The Yanks can build stealth composite fighters in 1) small numbers and at basically any price for the military. It is a very different thing to build something that uses the same technology but at about 200 x the size. Think your maths equations for volume and weight or think about skinny people and lardy **** people. The lardy **** people do not have to double in external area to double in wieght is the clue.

If you are so dumb then please do not comment stick to your cut and paste rubbish jobs.

http://ev.buaa.edu.cn/index.php

http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n615708/index.html

Yes, they are just farmers.

Imagine how undermined and inferior the whole nation of China feels because some donkey shoots off his bigoted rhetoric on a property website...

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Hmmm I smell politics - nothing to do with the fact that the UK is likely to pull out of the A400m project due to France's inability to build a working engine.

It's not the engines at fault per-se.

It's the gearboxes which turn to dust after a few minutes, made by that well known aircraft gearbox manufacturing country...Turkey. Well, they had to get some of the work on the aircraft didn't they, they are/were going to buy some!

I've said too much :ph34r:

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http://ev.buaa.edu.cn/index.php

http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n615708/index.html

Yes, they are just farmers.

Imagine how undermined and inferior the whole nation of China feels because some donkey shoots off his bigoted rhetoric on a property website...

They certainly are not threatened by your intellect. Media Studies Graduate from Dumbville Poly?

Also cut and paste from one of my posts on this thread where I was bigoted against the Chinese people.

Edited by ralphmalph

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Thought I should add that China is also commencing an Aircraft carrier build plan. Their submarine capability is also up there with the best of them.

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Thought I should add that China is also commencing an Aircraft carrier build plan. Their submarine capability is also up there with the best of them.

Indeed. They are the future.

Seems like bringing up China in any respect sets some people to emptying their venom sacks...

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Indeed. They are the future.

Seems like bringing up China in any respect sets some people to emptying their venom sacks...

I notice even though you use the Nu Labour excuse all calling anybody who defends the Uk a bigot or a racist you can not prove it.

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