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In another EU country where like in UK there is no housing crisis and the prices have fallen by 20%... and only one in ten mortgages gets approved.. the wise bankers have secret black list of proffesions which get point blank refusal when applying for a mortgage... so if you work in a car factory (understandable) or a bank (ha ha ha) you need not apply for a mortgage. Not gonna get it! Sure to come to UK in near future.

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in Amsterdam the banks wont give prostitutes mortgages, which is odd considering they earn a fortune and its legal. Maybe its because they get old and smelly and thier income falls of at they reach 25 years of age?.

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The principle of discriminating by occupations certainly is used by insurers.

When I worked in the cinema industry for a year between finishing my PhD and getting my first academic job, I was tipped off by colleagues to not, under any circumstances, give my occupation as a cinema manager or projectionist when applying for car insurance, as these are considered very high risk occupations and would result in a sky high premium (driving home late at night, often after working 12-15 hour shifts, possibly having had a drink or three after work, entertainment industry = drugs etc. etc.). I reluctantly concluded that it would be preferable to pay a sky high premium and know that in the event of an accident my claim wouldn't be disputed than to try to pass myself off as something I wasn't. But my colleagues were right - for that year's renewal I paid something like £410 to insure my Fiesta, up from £270 when my occupation had been a postgrad student. It went back down to about the high 200s when I got my first lecturing job. None of my other circumstances besides occupation changed during the time covered by those three renewals.

Edited by The Ayatollah Bugheri

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In another EU country where like in UK there is no housing crisis and the prices have fallen by 20%... and only one in ten mortgages gets approved.. the wise bankers have secret black list of proffesions which get point blank refusal when applying for a mortgage... so if you work in a car factory (understandable) or a bank (ha ha ha) you need not apply for a mortgage. Not gonna get it! Sure to come to UK in near future.

One lender tried to discriminate against a builder client of mine recently (they did this in the 80's too) but I didn't let them get away with it. Just like the Halifax tried to discriminate against window cleaners etc. some years ago by not allowing them to pay cash into their accounts - I don't know if anyone remembers? - but they didn't get away with this either - because when it's made public they deny it. :rolleyes:

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The principle of discriminating by occupations certainly is used by insurers.
And also discriminating by gender. Any guys paid their car insurance recently?

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Im not drunk or stupid. It is happening now and its quite sensible approach by the banks. Unlike the UK in that country the banks DID NOT have to be bailed out! No point giving mortgages to someone who is likely to loose job tomorrow. I hope UK banks will do that as well and as I`m a big saver I dont wish to subsidise someone elses mortgages.

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Im not drunk or stupid. It is happening now and its quite sensible approach by the banks. Unlike the UK in that country the banks DID NOT have to be bailed out! No point giving mortgages to someone who is likely to loose job tomorrow. I hope UK banks will do that as well and as I`m a big saver I dont wish to subsidise someone elses mortgages.

Do you have a link? I'd love to see what professions are on the list.... and I'm way too lazy to Google....

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One lender tried to discriminate against a builder client of mine recently (they did this in the 80's too) but I didn't let them get away with it. Just like the Halifax tried to discriminate against window cleaners etc. some years ago by not allowing them to pay cash into their accounts - I don't know if anyone remembers? - but they didn't get away with this either - because when it's made public they deny it. :rolleyes:

Lenders are perfectly entitled to make their own decision as to whether people in certain professions are higher risk than others. It would be idiotic for them not to do so. They will do it whether they make it public or not. If you think that you have the power to "... I didn't let them get away with it... ", then you're living in La La Land!

Because they have no way of knowing, in advance, which of their loans will go bad, they have to use what data there is out there to aid the initial decision making. (The basis of Credit Scoring.) Just think about it - if Profession A has a default record of 1% but Profession B has one of 2%, then a lender would be foolish to treat them as if they were equal risk. They will treat them differently - either by price or availability, or both. And, so they should.

"I didn't let them get away with it."! Huh!

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And also discriminating by gender. Any guys paid their car insurance recently?

Yes, but sadly enough it is male drivers who despite their percieved high level of driving skill are involved in more and more serious accidents this even stood up in the European Court.

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Yes, but sadly enough it is male drivers who despite their percieved high level of driving skill are involved in more and more serious accidents this even stood up in the European Court.

Fine. So if women have no problem with this discrimination on perfectly sound economic grounds (i.e. that male drivers cost insurers more), why are feminist groups trying to prevent pension annuity providers from charging women more under anti-discrimination legislation when the grounds are equally sound (i.e. women live longer, and will therefore cost pension providers more)? You can't have it both ways.

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Lenders are perfectly entitled to make their own decision as to whether people in certain professions are higher risk than others. It would be idiotic for them not to do so. They will do it whether they make it public or not. If you think that you have the power to "... I didn't let them get away with it... ", then you're living in La La Land!

Because they have no way of knowing, in advance, which of their loans will go bad, they have to use what data there is out there to aid the initial decision making. (The basis of Credit Scoring.) Just think about it - if Profession A has a default record of 1% but Profession B has one of 2%, then a lender would be foolish to treat them as if they were equal risk. They will treat them differently - either by price or availability, or both. And, so they should.

"I didn't let them get away with it."! Huh!

They didn't get away with it because there was nothing whatsover wrong with the application. Credit score was fine, accounts were fine. They tried it on - I complained on the basis of discrimination and they backed down.

There is no need to be petulant (huh!). I'm sorry if you're not happy I did that.

The horse has already bolted and I can think of many more sensible ways a lender could have tightened their criteria to ensure that the crisis was not as bad as it was. Yes - lending 7 x income to an accountant is really sensible - because lets face it they are professionals and oh yes lets face it if they're made redundant it won't matter a jot what profession they are they'll be out on the street.

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Yes, but sadly enough it is male drivers who despite their percieved high level of driving skill are involved in more and more serious accidents this even stood up in the European Court.

I believe that per million miles driven men have fewer accidents.

Men, on the whole, tend to drive a lot more.

(This could of course be total rubbish, but I did read it somewhere.)

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In another EU country where like in UK there is no housing crisis and the prices have fallen by 20%... and only one in ten mortgages gets approved.. the wise bankers have secret black list of proffesions which get point blank refusal when applying for a mortgage... so if you work in a car factory (understandable) or a bank (ha ha ha) you need not apply for a mortgage. Not gonna get it! Sure to come to UK in near future.

It's probably here already in various forms.

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I believe that per million miles driven men have fewer accidents.

Which may say that people with more driving experience have fewer accidents, although no doubt some will say it suggests men are better drivers. ;)

Men, on the whole, tend to drive a lot more.

So, is it the case that, per mile driven, men pay less for their insurance?

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I believe that per million miles driven men have fewer accidents.

Men, on the whole, tend to drive a lot more.

(This could of course be total rubbish, but I did read it somewhere.)

I think the case is that men have fewer accidents per distance driven but they tend to have much more expensive accidents. i.e a woman might dent it parking from time to time (cheap) where as a guy is more prone to turning it into a ball of scrap and hurting or killing someone (very expensive).

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in Amsterdam the banks wont give prostitutes mortgages, which is odd considering they earn a fortune and its legal. Maybe its because they get old and smelly and thier income falls of at they reach 25 years of age?.

They can't get life insurance for the same reasons: they are more likely to get disease, be murdered, be raped and all sorts of other unsavoury things which have a dramatic impact on their ability to pay off a loan. Nothing to do with being smelly, that’s just a really dumb thing to say.

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I find it unbelievable that insurance is allowed to discriminate by gender. You are an individual, the statistics do not matter. If they publicly discriminated by race there would be an uproar.

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In another EU country where like in UK there is no housing crisis and the prices have fallen by 20%... and only one in ten mortgages gets approved.. the wise bankers have secret black list of proffesions which get point blank refusal when applying for a mortgage... so if you work in a car factory (understandable) or a bank (ha ha ha) you need not apply for a mortgage. Not gonna get it! Sure to come to UK in near future.

Which country?

Link?

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They didn't get away with it because there was nothing whatsover wrong with the application. Credit score was fine, accounts were fine. They tried it on - I complained on the basis of discrimination and they backed down.

There is no need to be petulant (huh!). I'm sorry if you're not happy I did that.

The horse has already bolted and I can think of many more sensible ways a lender could have tightened their criteria to ensure that the crisis was not as bad as it was. Yes - lending 7 x income to an accountant is really sensible - because lets face it they are professionals and oh yes lets face it if they're made redundant it won't matter a jot what profession they are they'll be out on the street.

Please don't get on your high horse, Lady! All I meant was that it's as plain as day that statistics prove that certain types of borrowers are more risky than others and that banks should, and do, take note. The fact that they changed their mind on something after you explained it doesn't necessarily mean they 'backed down' - it might just mean that, having being given an explanation, they were satisfied with the position. After all, the presentation of a borrowing proposition and it's consideration is not a battle! If you - whoever and whatever you are - can change the lending criteria of a high street bank, then it is one organisation that I would have nothing to do with. They need to have strict criteria, based on statistical evidence, and stick to them - unless, of course, they are presented with new/additional information that justifies a change of view.

I wouldn't use the profession of accountancy as a prime example of perfect borrowers. In my professional life, I've seen many who are far from brilliant and also ones who have become bankrupt! There's nothing special about that profession.

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Fine. So if women have no problem with this discrimination on perfectly sound economic grounds (i.e. that male drivers cost insurers more), why are feminist groups trying to prevent pension annuity providers from charging women more under anti-discrimination legislation when the grounds are equally sound (i.e. women live longer, and will therefore cost pension providers more)? You can't have it both ways.

Very fair comment.

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