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NEO72

Why Do Bulls Visit Hpc?

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

I can only think of the following reasons but am hoping someone will enlighten me:

Some cynics might say (and I’ve frequently heard it argued here) that as psychology is a factor in HPI, then the bullish contributors actually have a vested interest in HPI and are attempting to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of bears.

Secondly (and IMO true in at least some cases), some bullish contributors are simply attention seeking and enjoy the reaction which (unfortunately) they often receive.

Finally, is it possible the bulls are wavering in their opinions and actually becoming bearish?

For the record I believe the very best-case (and IMO unlikely) scenario for bulls is that house prices remain the same until wages increase accordingly. This opinion is based on several fundamental (and IMO indisputable) facts underlying the pre 2007 boom:

1) If HPI was due to a shortage of housing, why didn’t rents rise accordingly?

2) A large driver of HPI was BTL speculators; however, the BTL market has been massively reduced (in terms of the availability of mortgages, eligibility criteria and to a lesser extent, demand) – to illustrate this the number of BTL mortgages taken out in Q1 this year was less than a quarter of those taken out in Q1 2007.

3) Competing with these speculators were of course first-time buyers and hugely significant is the fact that almost half of mortgages in 2007 required no proof of income. It wouldn’t take a great leap of faith to assume that the vast majority of these were in excess of standard loan-to-income multiples, again a practice that has all but disappeared.

Not even taking into account unemployment, bankruptcies, repossessions, interest rate rises etc., the reasons above are why I believe house prices will continue to fall another 10-30% over 2-5 years but would be interested to hear if you find fault with my logic.

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This forum gets thousands of visits from the general public on any given day. The bulls are trying to influence the "outsiders", not the "insiders".

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

I can only think of the following reasons but am hoping someone will enlighten me:

Some cynics might say (and I’ve frequently heard it argued here) that as psychology is a factor in HPI, then the bullish contributors actually have a vested interest in HPI and are attempting to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of bears.

Secondly (and IMO true in at least some cases), some bullish contributors are simply attention seeking and enjoy the reaction which (unfortunately) they often receive.

Finally, is it possible the bulls are wavering in their opinions and actually becoming bearish?

For the record I believe the very best-case (and IMO unlikely) scenario for bulls is that house prices remain the same until wages increase accordingly. This opinion is based on several fundamental (and IMO indisputable) facts underlying the pre 2007 boom:

1) If HPI was due to a shortage of housing, why didn’t rents rise accordingly?

2) A large driver of HPI was BTL speculators; however, the BTL market has been massively reduced (in terms of the availability of mortgages, eligibility criteria and to a lesser extent, demand) – to illustrate this the number of BTL mortgages taken out in Q1 this year was less than a quarter of those taken out in Q1 2007.

3) Competing with these speculators were of course first-time buyers and hugely significant is the fact that almost half of mortgages in 2007 required no proof of income. It wouldn’t take a great leap of faith to assume that the vast majority of these were in excess of standard loan-to-income multiples, again a practice that has all but disappeared.

Not even taking into account unemployment, bankruptcies, repossessions, interest rate rises etc., the reasons above are why I believe house prices will continue to fall another 10-30% over 2-5 years but would be interested to hear if you find fault with my logic.

A. To be thrush's.................................Irritating @unts!

B. To wind us up

C. Just because they can.

D. Because no one else will listen to their crap.

The answer is................wait for it.....................Drum roll please.........................ALL 4.......................I thank you.

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

I can only presume that they learn more about the housing market here than on their regular property ramping sites ;)

Edited by libspero

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bulls are evil and they like to bully gay bears sharing happy dreams of a world with affordable housing. bulls believe in slavery and want peole to rent their houses and are here to round up the escapees and scare us back to the pens. no one likes bears and they cant stand that so they feel the need to force themselves onto us nice people. bulls are ugly and stink of shiit

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

Imagine if no bulls came here at all. It's be awful. No Sibley. No Hamish. No-one to disagree with our collective predictions of bricks and mortar armageddon.

We'd just have to agree with each other, or invent minor picky point to disagree over. How boring.

I would never have know just how resilient the fair town of Maidstone was, if it weren't for Sibley. (Who incidentally is still languishing with troll status - undeservedly in my opinion).

The market will turn positive again one day - maybe in 2012, or 2014 - who knows. Some of us will spot the trend and accept it, whether we like it or not. Others will stay eternal bears. Sibley will be proved right one day - he just picked the wrong year / decade for his predictions imo.

;)

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bulls are evil and they like to bully gay bears sharing happy dreams of a world with affordable housing. bulls believe in slavery and want peole to rent their houses and are here to round up the escapees and scare us back to the pens. no one likes bears and they cant stand that so they feel the need to force themselves onto us nice people. bulls are ugly and stink of shiit

Are there a lot of bulls in Slough then?

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Are there a lot of bulls in Slough then?

The conspiracy theorist in me always assumed the bulls on here are plants hired by the board's owners - especially since it's been "monetised".

Then again, if I'm wrong and the bulls are really real it just goes to prove that there are some sad sack twunts in the world. Why McTwattish would want to come on here every five minutes ramping HPI if he wasn't getting paid to do it is beyond me. What a pathetic, small-dicked little man...

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Guest pioneer31

because it's the only attention they get, in their lonely world.

I don't agree that the site needs bulls. I've had a skinful of their crap for the last 10 years or so. I'd like 10 years of silence now.

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Guest theboltonfury

I love it when London2Manchester posts his remedial takes on English. The other bulls must be so proud.

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

Presumably, pishing into the wind is a favourite past-time. Bro.

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Well if I am perfectly honest, I would much rather have deluded bulls trying to talk the market up than have HPC go off on some of the "tangents" it has recently.

House prices, economy, investments.... rather than hate mongering.

Anti Brown, Anti BBC , Anti everything

This time next year it will be Anti Cameron, and his housing advisor (Kirsty) , Anti BBC again.

As more and more people become unemployed, lose their houses and find free time this site will become more of a playground than it is now.

It's still a great source of information but if you can't handle a counter argument or agree with other peoples views without resorting to name calling....then I am afraid you're no better than the trolls whose bait you rise to.

Rather have proper bulls than some of the crazy TFH brigade who will tell you that 80% off peak is coming..they are equaly deluded

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In a dog eat dog world, there are a number or STRs, highly paid professionals, business owners on this forum, sitting on huge piles of liquid cash. Some have well over £100,000+ in their warchest.

These people need to be scared out, and taken out of the "game", so the very last buyers at the bottom can buy much more property for their money. Also, there are property investors who bought at peak who need to try and offload in this price rally.

And there are the estate agents, essentially salesmen, who need to work primarily on people's emotions. HPC is an excellent training ground to sharpen their communication skills.

Edited by Lord Sandwich

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

I can only think of the following reasons but am hoping someone will enlighten me:

Some cynics might say (and I’ve frequently heard it argued here) that as psychology is a factor in HPI, then the bullish contributors actually have a vested interest in HPI and are attempting to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of bears.

Secondly (and IMO true in at least some cases), some bullish contributors are simply attention seeking and enjoy the reaction which (unfortunately) they often receive.

Finally, is it possible the bulls are wavering in their opinions and actually becoming bearish?

For the record I believe the very best-case (and IMO unlikely) scenario for bulls is that house prices remain the same until wages increase accordingly. This opinion is based on several fundamental (and IMO indisputable) facts underlying the pre 2007 boom:

1) If HPI was due to a shortage of housing, why didn’t rents rise accordingly?

2) A large driver of HPI was BTL speculators; however, the BTL market has been massively reduced (in terms of the availability of mortgages, eligibility criteria and to a lesser extent, demand) – to illustrate this the number of BTL mortgages taken out in Q1 this year was less than a quarter of those taken out in Q1 2007.

3) Competing with these speculators were of course first-time buyers and hugely significant is the fact that almost half of mortgages in 2007 required no proof of income. It wouldn’t take a great leap of faith to assume that the vast majority of these were in excess of standard loan-to-income multiples, again a practice that has all but disappeared.

Not even taking into account unemployment, bankruptcies, repossessions, interest rate rises etc., the reasons above are why I believe house prices will continue to fall another 10-30% over 2-5 years but would be interested to hear if you find fault with my logic.

I sometimes look at Singing Pig to see what the other side is getting up to. I don't post there because I'm not a troll, but I look to see how long I'm likely to have to wait for the pent-up supply to come onto the market.

A lot of bulls see this as a buying opportunity and presumably come here to see where the pent-up demand is. I think it is fair to say that a lot of us want to buy a house, just not at current prices.

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"Why do bulls visit the site"

The typical bull is a mid 40 year old who has paid little attention to financial decisions with regard their retirement. They jumped on the property bandwagon far too late in the hope of further wealth transfer from young to old but are now looking at heavy losses, and not quite as a comfortable retirement they believed they were/are entitled to.

Basically, they're fcuked, and they'd rather spend every minute of their time trying to convince others (and themselves) that everything will go 'back to normal', rather than face up to their impending problems.

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Having been a visitor to this site (mainly as a lurker) for a number of years now, one thing continually perplexes me; that is why do certain bulls spend so much time on it?

I can only think of the following reasons but am hoping someone will enlighten me:

Some cynics might say (and I’ve frequently heard it argued here) that as psychology is a factor in HPI, then the bullish contributors actually have a vested interest in HPI and are attempting to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of bears.

Secondly (and IMO true in at least some cases), some bullish contributors are simply attention seeking and enjoy the reaction which (unfortunately) they often receive.

Finally, is it possible the bulls are wavering in their opinions and actually becoming bearish?

For the record I believe the very best-case (and IMO unlikely) scenario for bulls is that house prices remain the same until wages increase accordingly. This opinion is based on several fundamental (and IMO indisputable) facts underlying the pre 2007 boom:

1) If HPI was due to a shortage of housing, why didn’t rents rise accordingly?

2) A large driver of HPI was BTL speculators; however, the BTL market has been massively reduced (in terms of the availability of mortgages, eligibility criteria and to a lesser extent, demand) – to illustrate this the number of BTL mortgages taken out in Q1 this year was less than a quarter of those taken out in Q1 2007.

3) Competing with these speculators were of course first-time buyers and hugely significant is the fact that almost half of mortgages in 2007 required no proof of income. It wouldn’t take a great leap of faith to assume that the vast majority of these were in excess of standard loan-to-income multiples, again a practice that has all but disappeared.

Not even taking into account unemployment, bankruptcies, repossessions, interest rate rises etc., the reasons above are why I believe house prices will continue to fall another 10-30% over 2-5 years but would be interested to hear if you find fault with my logic.

IMO it's because people can say exactly what they like on here and there is nothing that can be done to stop them. They have a free rein to rant. The more antagonising the post the more response they tend to get.

It doesn't matter whether they are inaccurate, rude, ignorant, or stupid - all are able to say what they like - that's some of the point of a faceless internet forum it seems. Sometimes I think that's a real shame - the humour in these postings is on occasion quite brilliant but it seems that someone always has to spoil it by attacking other posters.

As for the bulls specifically - perhaps if they say it enough, they - or others will believe it's true? Perhaps they just live in hope or perhaps they are bored at work or at home, or are attention seeking?

Most people who have been on here a long time are very courteous and have interesting views. Some of the bulls are calm and non-confrontational too.

I've not been attacked for being honest about my occupation although a few had a go at first.

I suppose it's good for the site that there is a diverse mix of people on here as it stands to reason that it should offer a balanced argument? :lol:

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