Class Conflict?

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

I`ve come back with my tail firmly between my legs.

Went to Waitrose with my wife for a bit of shopping. Got to cashier - today they`ve got the `Air Force cadets` in to `help people pack their shopping` (fair enough). However, muggins here put his foot well and truly in his mouth: when asked by one of the cadets if I needed help with my packing, I stupidly replied, `It`s ok my wife will help me`. Cashier (female) threw me one of the evillest most disapproving glares. Man, I chilled to the bone.

Did I do anything wrong? Have I broken some kind of middle class `PC` unwritten, unspoken rule? Did I got for a `Tommy Steele in "Half A Sixpence"?` Was I a sexist? (God forbid!) I now feel I`d be better off chavving it up in Asda; maybe I just lack the social skills required to interact in the social milieu of Waitrose. Oddly enough, the only class-free zone seems to be Lidl: the silent rule there is that everyone is broke and `poverty` doesn`t judge. I`ve probably recorded on CCTV and they`ll have Lloyd Grossman security there to prevent me ever stepping in Waitrose again.

Is this just a case of a Portsmouth chav getting ideas `above his station` or am I just a big-mouthed slaphead (without tattoos). I`m going to throw it over to you guys (if you can be bothered to vote). I expect to get a medium-rare roasting on this one.

[EmmaRoid]

The air cadets were there to raise some money, weren't they? They would expect a donation for helping customers pack.

Maybe she thought you were trying to avoid donating.

[profitofdoom]

The air cadets were there to raise some money, weren't they? They would expect a donation for helping customers pack.

Maybe she thought you were trying to avoid donating.

Sort of squeegee jocks in uniform then?

[Guest AuntJess]

I`ve come back with my tail firmly between my legs.

Went to Waitrose with my wife for a bit of shopping. Got to cashier - today they`ve got the `Air Force cadets` in to `help people pack their shopping` (fair enough). However, muggins here put his foot well and truly in his mouth: when asked by one of the cadets if I needed help with my packing, I stupidly replied, `It`s ok my wife will help me`. Cashier (female) threw me one of the evillest most disapproving glares. Man, I chilled to the bone.

Did I do anything wrong? Have I broken some kind of middle class `PC` unwritten, unspoken rule? Did I got for a `Tommy Steele in "Half A Sixpence"?` Was I a sexist? (God forbid!) I now feel I`d be better off chavving it up in Asda; maybe I just lack the social skills required to interact in the social milieu of Waitrose. Oddly enough, the only class-free zone seems to be Lidl: the silent rule there is that everyone is broke and `poverty` doesn`t judge. I`ve probably recorded on CCTV and they`ll have Lloyd Grossman security there to prevent me ever stepping in Waitrose again.

Is this just a case of a Portsmouth chav getting ideas `above his station` or am I just a big-mouthed slaphead (without tattoos). I`m going to throw it over to you guys (if you can be bothered to vote). I expect to get a medium-rare roasting on this one.

Maybe it is the area you shop in. I have always found the Waitrose staff really nice and friendly - East Devon.

Mind you, a good few of the motorists here and a set of ******** ******** with their heads up their ***** and delusions of superiority....

[m4rk]

funnyly enough i was at a bbq with a load of sainsburys managers (department managers ie fruit and veg supervisor etc.) you wouldnt believe how up themselves they were because they worked in an "upmarket" supermarket. "people shop here because they dont care if asda is cheaper with the same products they dont want to be seen there" they asked me what i do..... work in aldi which of course set them off even more. "you couldnt hack it working here its very demanding they said" uh i thought quietly, try comming to work for me for a day its a different level of commitment and work ethic! when it came to salary they wernt too impressed that what they classed as an inferior place to work and aparently an inferior role that i earned considerably more than them.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

The air cadets were there to raise some money, weren't they? They would expect a donation for helping customers pack.

Maybe she thought you were trying to avoid donating.

they were probably moonlighting BA Pilots/ Air Stewardesses, expect to see alot more of this in the coming years

[Ologhai Jones]

I`ve come back with my tail firmly between my legs.

Went to Waitrose with my wife for a bit of shopping. Got to cashier - today they`ve got the `Air Force cadets` in to `help people pack their shopping` (fair enough). However, muggins here put his foot well and truly in his mouth: when asked by one of the cadets if I needed help with my packing, I stupidly replied, `It`s ok my wife will help me`. Cashier (female) threw me one of the evillest most disapproving glares. Man, I chilled to the bone.

Did I do anything wrong? Have I broken some kind of middle class `PC` unwritten, unspoken rule? Did I got for a `Tommy Steele in "Half A Sixpence"?` Was I a sexist? (God forbid!) I now feel I`d be better off chavving it up in Asda; maybe I just lack the social skills required to interact in the social milieu of Waitrose. Oddly enough, the only class-free zone seems to be Lidl: the silent rule there is that everyone is broke and `poverty` doesn`t judge. I`ve probably recorded on CCTV and they`ll have Lloyd Grossman security there to prevent me ever stepping in Waitrose again.

Is this just a case of a Portsmouth chav getting ideas `above his station` or am I just a big-mouthed slaphead (without tattoos). I`m going to throw it over to you guys (if you can be bothered to vote). I expect to get a medium-rare roasting on this one.

A few of my thoughts on it, for what they're worth:

- You don't have to let strangers help you pack your shopping if you don't want them to.

- You can contribute to charity or not as it takes your fancy.

- You can choose to donate to the Air Force Cadets whether or not you let them pack your bags.

- You can choose not to donate to the Air Force Cadets whether or not you let them pack your bags.

- Your relationship with your wife is something that I imagine you know better than the cashier -- you and she presumably know better whether what you said is acceptable in your relationship.

- You are the customer. Waitrose should generally be about providing you with what you want, otherwise as a corporate entity, they have failed.

- The cashier's withering look should just bounce off your 'The Customer is Always Right' cloak!

[Guest redwine]

they asked me what i do..... work in aldi e]

are aldi products better than Lidl or does it all come from the same place and they change the labels ?

[EmmaRoid]

are aldi products better than Lidl or does it all come from the same place and they change the labels ?

aldi-pends but usually they're a lidl better

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

The air cadets were there to raise some money, weren't they? They would expect a donation for helping customers pack.

Maybe she thought you were trying to avoid donating.

Which did happen. I don`t do donations

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

A few of my thoughts on it, for what they're worth:

- Your relationship with your wife is something that I imagine you know better than the cashier -- you and she presumably know better whether what you said is acceptable in your relationship.

- You are the customer. Waitrose should generally be about providing you with what you want, otherwise as a corporate entity, they have failed.

- The cashier's withering look should just bounce off your 'The Customer is Always Right' cloak!

Thanks for the feedback:

1. I got very `precious` about it when I got indoors and went off into Victor Meldrew mode: took my wife`s sympathy and a cup of tea to calm me down.

2. Waitrose`s tomatoes had an unusually high mould count today - we had to be very picky about which packets we bought.

3. I always go into Waitrose with feelings of inferiority. God knows why.

BTW HEALTH WARNING: DO NOT EAT FROM THE SALAD BARS - I`VE SEEN LOADS OF KIDS PUTTING THE SPOONS IN THEIR MOUTHS AND THEN BACK IN THE SALADS! PARENTS DID NOT TRY TO STOP (STIFLE?) THE POOR DARLINGS!!! URGH!

[benthebuilder]

I`ve come back with my tail firmly between my legs.

Went to Waitrose with my wife for a bit of shopping. Got to cashier - today they`ve got the `Air Force cadets` in to `help people pack their shopping` (fair enough). However, muggins here put his foot well and truly in his mouth: when asked by one of the cadets if I needed help with my packing, I stupidly replied, `It`s ok my wife will help me`. Cashier (female) threw me one of the evillest most disapproving glares. Man, I chilled to the bone.

Did I do anything wrong? Have I broken some kind of middle class `PC` unwritten, unspoken rule? Did I got for a `Tommy Steele in "Half A Sixpence"?` Was I a sexist? (God forbid!) I now feel I`d be better off chavving it up in Asda; maybe I just lack the social skills required to interact in the social milieu of Waitrose. Oddly enough, the only class-free zone seems to be Lidl: the silent rule there is that everyone is broke and `poverty` doesn`t judge. I`ve probably recorded on CCTV and they`ll have Lloyd Grossman security there to prevent me ever stepping in Waitrose again.

Is this just a case of a Portsmouth chav getting ideas `above his station` or am I just a big-mouthed slaphead (without tattoos). I`m going to throw it over to you guys (if you can be bothered to vote). I expect to get a medium-rare roasting on this one.

Jesus guy......how the hell can you make a post out of a "look" that some till tart gave you.

Screw her.

Screw the Air Cadets

Screw Waitrose.

She's spending her day scanning your groceries....why do you give a hoot what she thinks?

Stand up for yourself!

[Y-QUERK]

aldi-pends but usually they're a lidl better

[Tin Foil Hat]

from mrs tfh trying to accommodate hpc in my life...... just remember a cashier is a cashier wherever they are whatever shop, lidl, waitrose or prada they're still serving you not the other way round! Take the wife's sympathy, forget being inferior...it only affects you...(oh and wifey) so chill, but next time a small donation wouldn't go a miss, 50p would do and go somwhere else in the knowledge that you changing shop may in some small part affect their profits!

And from the real TFH:

I assume you're paying with your own money from a debit card, cash or a credit card where you are properly funded, and not mentalist credit by virtue of frequenting HPC. This puts you in the same position I thought about being a scumbag from the north, and that was I am paying with my money and not the same credit that 'paid' for the Range Rover HSE in the car park that brought them to Waitrose. QED: You are the daddy in Waitrose because you're spending real cash you have.

For the top vibe, pay in cash and drive an old car to the place, and park it very close to a spankingly expensive MEW-mobile and don't do anything nasty like bang it, but just leaving that possibility there is also sociopathically satisfying in a passive-aggressive way.

Nuts it may be but chill dude, and give the air cadet a quid of your money - even more good vibe cos it's not credit/non-existent money.

TFH

[Guillotine]

Lovely story Joe.

Now the supermarkets like us to recycle old bags or use "bags for life", I'm not sure what hurts middle class pride the most, coming out of Waitrose with your Aldi bags brimful of Kumquat and Swans Fat pate, or coming out of Aldi with Waitrose bags full of everything else.

Class is so much historic baggage.

[Prescience]

My take FWIIW.

We live in a mighty strange area. Within one mile from us, we have both houses selling for upowards of £1 million (QUite a few) skads in the £500,000 - 700,000 range: and social housing where one quite recent development suffers 90% adult Unemployment and another much older estate, the highest social deprivation possible.

I know: I had to analyse and grasp the demographics for a local project.

Now the local Asda is a tip: running alive with scrotes and the selling strategy reflects this: two aisles of crisps etc! Loads of tacky ready meals etc.

Within 20 minutes we have Tesco (A large one), Sainsburys and 9 minutes away a large Waitrose.

We mainly shop at Lidl: and sometimes Aldi and only use Waitose and Asda for the things we want and can't source from either Lidl or Aldi.

Waitrose is mega-expensive, right across the board: and is the happy hunting ground of the up themselves noveau riche.

The women punters seem to treat the exercise as a One Upmanship competition! Obviously visit the coiffeure, manucurist, pedicurist and image consultant before going shopping! And boy do they dress up! The car park is awash with top end Mercs, Jags, Beemas, SUVs and the odd Bentley and Aston.

The assistants and the check out staff however are most helpful, extremely polite and in majority, seem to be selected (Compared to Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury!) for their poise and willingness.

All that said the fruit and veg in Lidl is far fresher. Most of the staff whilst less charming are extremely helpful.

Interesting you find the customer profile is very downmarket: we find it is an electic mixture of middle class and scrotes: mainly since the Lidl store we use is right next to yet another huge social housing development full of the worst types.

However we tend to go very early before stocks of fresh items run down: and the scrotes are still probably sleeping off the excesses of the night before!

All that said, YOU are the customer: YOU, not the assistant are paying the bill!

Your choice.

You may have been wholly unlucky and chosen a rapid Lefty Feminist for your checkout operator!

personally, being me, I would have probably stared back and said "Do you have some problem with that?"

As has already been stated, you have no mandatory obligation to make charitable contributions. Any more than you have to suffer kids packing your shopping: I mainly wouldn't, since they invariably pack the wrong things together not having to do it themselves: like washing powder next to fresh peaches e.g.

Final point: the "Middle Class" rarely exist today. Most who would like to consider themselves "Middle Class", these days are simply working class oiks with more cash to throw around: which shows in their behaviour, attitudes and ignorance, IMHO and experience.

Rest easy, Mate!

[athe]

Final point: the "Middle Class" rarely exist today. Most who would like to consider themselves "Middle Class", these days are simply working class oiks with more cash to throw around: which shows in their behaviour, attitudes and ignorance, IMHO and experience.

It is of course notoriously difficult to say who is what. However, I find this to be a useful definition:

Working Class - Need a job to meet day to day expenses

Middle Class - Can afford to take several months off between jobs if they want

Upper Class - Doesn't have to work if they don't want to.

It's more of an American definition, and ignores all sorts of British factors like accent, hereditary and so on, but at least it's usable.

[Guillotine]

Final point: the "Middle Class" rarely exist today.

Do what?

[m4rk]

are aldi products better than Lidl or does it all come from the same place and they change the labels ?

contrary to popular belief aldi and lidl are completely different companies despite running in a similar fashion. cant say iv ever tried much of the lidl products but 99% of the stuff iv tried at aldi is brilliant. im sure products such as chips etc all come from the same place but its the same for asda tesco lidl aldi sainsburys morrisons m&s safeway iceland. its all from one factory that just changes the bags.

customers seem to actually believe there is a chip factory for asda smart price chips, then a seperate one for tesco value chips etc.

aldi and lidl staff should have a bit of brains about them though. asda tesco and the big boys will hire any old "drones" do but dont think etc.

edit for spelling

[athe]

Do what?

I agree with Prescience. The last thirty years haven't seen upwards social mobility but downward. It all been a giant slight of hand.

[Prescience]

In both the USA now ( and has been for some little time) and the UK for much longer, I doubt there are many "Middle Class" people who meet that descriptor.

People tend to commit their forecast income ahead of time: that's surely how we all acquire assets!

Many "Working Class" can optionally not work: as they live on benefits!

And many of the upper classes need to work, as the old days of the "Idle Rich" have been gone in the main for some time. Of course there are still quite a number who can chose: but increasing numbers who cannot.

A number of years ago, Andrew Alexander (One of the very few journalists I respect: we used to correspond quite a bit and exchanged emails recently) wrote an interesting piece on this matter of The Middle Class.

He used the example of a Bank Manager in the mid 1930s: his house - then - he suggested would probably be worth upwards of £750,000 (In current terms then- 15 years ago?); and he could employ at least one if not two live-in servants: and a gardener and etc.

How times have really changed.

My own definition would be based on education, behaviour, Mindset and developed Social Conscience: and not money or assets.

Middle Class earning potential was purposively emasculated by Left Wing policies from 1944 onwards and in many cases has been outstripped by what can only be considered as "Working Class" occupations.

[clockslinger]

It is of course notoriously difficult to say who is what. However, I find this to be a useful definition:

Working Class - Need a job to meet day to day expenses

Middle Class - Can afford to take several months off between jobs if they want

Upper Class - Doesn't have to work if they don't want to.

It's more of an American definition, and ignores all sorts of British factors like accent, hereditary and so on, but at least it's usable.

Real definition of working class for my money is something like: does not own means of production and is conscious of the conflicts with ones own interests that arise from that fact. For class to have any meaning it can only be understood in conflict theory terms and in terms of ones class consciousness. Sorry if that is a bit Wolfie Smith, but "class" is a Marxist concept, I believe. You may as well use marketing criteria if you are trying to define class as a cultural thing...likes radio 3, drives a Volvo, likes France etc...tells you nothing except income and tastes.

[athe]

In both the USA now ( and has been for some little time) and the UK for much longer, I doubt there are many "Middle Class" people who meet that descriptor.

My point exactly - the middle class has been removed to all intents and purposes.

And many of the upper classes need to work, as the old days of the "Idle Rich" have been gone in the main for some time. Of course there are still quite a number who can chose: but increasing numbers who cannot.

It's just a difference set of people these days. Do you really think that people like Richard Branson etc need to work. They have enough money that they could spend what I earn in a year every day for the rest of their lives and barely make a dent on their assets.

And re people willing to live on benefits - a new class, the idle poor.

[waitingandsaving]

Lovely story Joe.

Now the supermarkets like us to recycle old bags or use "bags for life", I'm not sure what hurts middle class pride the most, coming out of Waitrose with your Aldi bags brimful of Kumquat and Swans Fat pate, or coming out of Aldi with Waitrose bags full of everything else.

Class is so much historic baggage.

My mother always make a point of making sure she's taking a competitors shopping bag with her to whatever supermarket she's going to - to let them know she shops elsewhere, and to remind them they don't have a monopoly in the area!

To the OP - I think you've got a duff Waitrose there. I regularly shop in our local Waitrose (it's the closest shop we have, but I do shop elsewhere too), and also other Waitroses in the area, as they're all just off main roads I use regularly.

I often turn up looking very scruffy, being on my way back home from the allotment or some such. No one bats an eye lid, and I'm always treated with courtesy. I'm not the only one walking round looking scruffy - and it's always a surprise to see who gets into which car - people with "old money" often dress down, as they have nothing to prove (that's not me by the way, I'm not "money" at all - old or new - I just go in there to get the regular basics, and to buy the reductions at the end of the day)... There's no reason for anyone to feel inferior in a Waitrose, if you can afford to pay, then you're fine (and even if you can't pay, they should deal with it terribly discreetly, as that's their job)

Generally everyone working in Waitrose gets a pretty good deal, as they're all "partners" in the business - and the quality of staff is generally better than other supermarkets because of that.

I too, have made the blunder of saying no thanks to the small children/sullen teenagers there to pack my bags - mainly becasue I'd said yes once before in Asda, and learnt my lesson -I wasn't happy about the 2.5kg of potatoes being put on top of my loaf of bread, and the grapes going in with the raw meat - but I was too polite to say anything, and came away very grumpy... If you don't want them to pack, that's fine. They're there in a voluntary capacity, and you can jolly well do your own packing if you want to! (Although I felt bad about saying no, the child really didn't seem too bothered, and busied themselves seperating out the carrier bags for future transactions)

I always put money in the bucket though, but then worry that they haven't seen me put money in the bucket, and think I'm a stingy cow...

I now have come to a suitable compromise - I help them pack, and give them guidance towards their conduct with my groceries. I suggest that if they put the bread and squishy things in one bag, while I put the chilled in another etc, I get the bags how I would pack them myself, it means I've had a brief interaction with said fundraiser (I'll ask if they're raising funds for something specific etc) and they've done their "bit". They get the money they're after, and I get the shopping home in one piece.

[erranta]

I`ve come back with my tail firmly between my legs.

Went to Waitrose with my wife for a bit of shopping. Got to cashier - today they`ve got the `Air Force cadets` in to `help people pack their shopping` (fair enough). However, muggins here put his foot well and truly in his mouth: when asked by one of the cadets if I needed help with my packing, I stupidly replied, `It`s ok my wife will help me`. Cashier (female) threw me one of the evillest most disapproving glares. Man, I chilled to the bone.

Did I do anything wrong? Have I broken some kind of middle class `PC` unwritten, unspoken rule? Did I got for a `Tommy Steele in "Half A Sixpence"?` Was I a sexist? (God forbid!) I now feel I`d be better off chavving it up in Asda; maybe I just lack the social skills required to interact in the social milieu of Waitrose. Oddly enough, the only class-free zone seems to be Lidl: the silent rule there is that everyone is broke and `poverty` doesn`t judge. I`ve probably recorded on CCTV and they`ll have Lloyd Grossman security there to prevent me ever stepping in Waitrose again.

Is this just a case of a Portsmouth chav getting ideas `above his station` or am I just a big-mouthed slaphead (without tattoos). I`m going to throw it over to you guys (if you can be bothered to vote). I expect to get a medium-rare roasting on this one.

In lidl (think Aldi too - but not sure) they only accept cash or electron cash thru Maestro/switch card!

So even (maybe) poor punters have 'Cash' to spend!

In all the rest, the 'soon-to-be chav' mega-mewers are living day to day on Credit Cards and can't afford to shop in lidl! Amazing?

Inverted snobbery ?

I've seen loads of mercedes etc pull up in Lidl car park and fill up their Sainsbury/Waitrose bags!

If you go in near opening time Pub and Restuarant chefs could be spotted buying up the meat!

Savvy people?

In the old days we found you could knock a third off your supermarket spending at a stroke shopping in lidl.