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Originally 51 were sacked while another 61 were hired by another contractor onsite. The unions make out that it was replacing brits with cheap foreigners. I also herd someone saying that it was an excuse to get rid of trouble makers. With a workforce that size there would be little saving or point in replacing such a small number for cheaper labour so were total just getting rid of assholes?

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Originally 51 were sacked while another 61 were hired by another contractor onsite. The unions make out that it was replacing brits with cheap foreigners. I also herd someone saying that it was an excuse to get rid of trouble makers. With a workforce that size there would be little saving or point in replacing such a small number for cheaper labour so were total just getting rid of assholes?

More than likely, every redundancy I have ever been involved in the one's forced to take it are the assholes. Now we have 900 d1cks to go with the 51 assholes. People never learn.

The underground is a good example of the militant's taking over. £40k to be a tube driver, sounds good to me particularly when you think that they are semi-skilled workers at best, but oh no not good enough according to Bob Crow. In the end the management will invest in equipment to engineer people out of the equasion and then the d1cks will moan about greedy shortsighted managers blah blah blah............not seeing the greed that forced the management to take a certain path.

Where's Fudge, he will have some gems for us........

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More than likely, every redundancy I have ever been involved in the one's forced to take it are the assholes. Now we have 900 d1cks to go with the 51 assholes. People never learn.

The underground is a good example of the militant's taking over. £40k to be a tube driver, sounds good to me particularly when you think that they are semi-skilled workers at best, but oh no not good enough according to Bob Crow. In the end the management will invest in equipment to engineer people out of the equasion and then the d1cks will moan about greedy shortsighted managers blah blah blah............not seeing the greed that forced the management to take a certain path.

Where's Fudge, he will have some gems for us........

It is obvious what is happenening the employers are gradually replacing the workers on decent unionised jobs for cheap migrant labour.

If the workers dont do anything they will eventually be out of work anyway so they have no choice but to try and put up some sort of a fight.

The outcome will have wide ramifications for workers in all industries.

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Well done Total I say!

They're permiited, nay encouraged to do it so who are we to complain? :angry:

It is obvious what is happenening the employers are gradually replacing the workers on decent unionised jobs for cheap migrant labour.

The obvious conclusion? Not to me, but even if it were true our elected politicians conned us many years ago into joining an ever closer economic union with our supposed European allies. If you're pro-EU then you're pro-migrant workforces - in all directions (though of course we all know which directions are actually used).

Personally I hate the EU & wish we'd joined NAFTA.

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Nothing wrong with striking or sacking folk.

Personally I hope that the workers succeed in their endavour, the traffic has all been a bit "one way" of late. I also highly doubt that they will, but that's life.

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Last time these guys were in the headlines there were a few telling comments from them (When ever the media gave them a chance that is).

They were not just fighting for themselves, they were doing it for their offspring, albeit, indirectly.

Look at the pictures, most of these guys seems to be in their mid forties. They're baby boomers suddenly coming to the realisation that their local employer, isn't offering to their kids what they offered to them all those years ago, yet it's these guys whom are stuck with their kids at home, unemployed and disfranchised.

What they're indirectly demanding is to keep a local employer contributing locally and Total are having none of it.

Edited by sundance_kid

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They're permiited, nay encouraged to do it so who are we to complain? :angry:

The obvious conclusion? Not to me, but even if it were true our elected politicians conned us many years ago into joining an ever closer economic union with our supposed European allies. If you're pro-EU then you're pro-migrant workforces - in all directions (though of course we all know which directions are actually used).

Personally I hate the EU & wish we'd joined NAFTA.

It is not a conclusion I have come to, it is what is happening.

It is not just happening there it is happening all over.

Workers need to get it into there heads that these employers do not give a ****** about them or their families.

They do not care if you cannot get work, or get your house repossessed or cannot feed your kids.

They do not care about the law or society or what is morally right or wrong.

The only thing they care about is profit and if that means laying off 900 local workers and employing foriegn workers who are

desperate and will work for less, they will without a seconds hesistation.

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It is obvious what is happenening the employers are gradually replacing the workers on decent unionised jobs for cheap migrant labour.

If the workers dont do anything they will eventually be out of work anyway so they have no choice but to try and put up some sort of a fight.

The outcome will have wide ramifications for workers in all industries.

£40,000 to be a train driver, not enough for you?

How much these guys getting paid at the oil refinenary?

Why were the 50 employees made redundant? It's highly unusual to let good employees go, as a senior manager fudge I am not suggesting this to be the case but telling you it is the case.

The acid test will be how many of the 900 come back to work on Monday. I will sick my neck out and suggest it will be close to 100% of them.

And as a senior manager I can tell you that to suggest that somehow they have no choice is frankly ridiculous. What you want as an employer is a workforce who comes to work, happy to do the job and does not create issues. When the costs (which include the hassle factor) out way the benefits you look at alternatives, it's quite simple really even for a nugget like you to get your head round.

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It is not a conclusion I have come to, it is what is happening.

It is not just happening there it is happening all over.

Workers need to get it into there heads that these employers do not give a ****** about them or their families.

They do not care if you cannot get work, or get your house repossessed or cannot feed your kids.

They do not care about the law or society or what is morally right or wrong.

The only thing they care about is profit and if that means laying off 900 local workers and employing foriegn workers who are

desperate and will work for less, they will without a seconds hesistation.

Total and utter rubbish.

Do you really believe this or need to believe it? There is a big differance.

Edited by Godley

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£40,000 to be a train driver, not enough for you?

How much these guys getting paid at the oil refinenary?

Why were the 50 employees made redundant? It's highly unusual to let good employees go, as a senior manager fudge I am not suggesting this to be the case but telling you it is the case.

The acid test will be how many of the 900 come back to work on Monday. I will sick my neck out and suggest it will be close to 100% of them.

And as a senior manager I can tell you that to suggest that somehow they have no choice is frankly ridiculous. What you want as an employer is a workforce who comes to work, happy to do the job and does not create issues. When the costs (which include the hassle factor) out way the benefits you look at alternatives, it's quite simple really even for a nugget like you to get your head round.

I'm curious, what do you think train drivers should be paid? IMO companies don't pay people more than they're worth, 40k is what drivers of most trains in the UK roughly earn. Are you saying that a few thousand people have somehow managed to convince their superiors, who are no doubt trying to save money left, right and centre, to pay them vastly inflated wages?

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Total and utter rubbish.

Do you really believe this or need to believe it? There is a big differance.

What ******ing planet do you live on?

Your employees might swallow this ******** but there is an increasing number of people who are now waking up to the fact

that whilst they are being made redundant jobs are either being offshored or where this is not possible being replaced by imported cheap labor.

The war between capital and labor has being going on for hundreds of years.

Over the last 10 years of New Labour, workers have become very complacent, they have not bothered organising within unions and now we are in a recession they are in a very weak position from which to fight back against these attacks against their pay and conditions.

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I'm curious, what do you think train drivers should be paid? IMO companies don't pay people more than they're worth, 40k is what drivers of most trains in the UK roughly earn. Are you saying that a few thousand people have somehow managed to convince their superiors, who are no doubt trying to save money left, right and centre, to pay them vastly inflated wages?

No. And?

You make my point, it's when an employee 'worth' become less than the hassle or net benefit.

You will find ultimatley it's markets that decide the price of everything including labour. It's not unions.

Take the underground there will come a time (a hear it's upon us) that the management will look to engineer the labour out of the system, largely because Bob Crow is an unreasonable idiot. The victims?

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What ******ing planet do you live on?

Your employees might swallow this ******** but there is an increasing number of people who are now waking up to the fact

that whilst they are being made redundant jobs are either being offshored or where this is not possible being replaced by imported cheap labor.

The war between capital and labor has being going on for hundreds of years.

Over the last 10 years of New Labour, workers have become very complacent, they have not bothered organising within unions and now we are in a recession they are in a very weak position from which to fight back against these attacks against their pay and conditions.

Fudge, our employees are very well looked after. I have given you examples of the packages on offer in previous threads.

Please advise me of the packages on offer at the lindsay oil refinery?

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If these strikes are designed to get rid of troublemakers who exactly gets to define what a "troublemaker" is?

Total will label anyone who tries to stop cheaper wages and worse conditions being imposed as a "trouble maker". Total can see acres of cheap migrant labour- they just need to find a cheap and easy way of getting rid of the "expensive" existing British labour force. Redundancy won't work- it costs money.

Provoke your labour force, get an excuse for mass sackings and the door is open to cheap migrant replacements.

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Why is it that pro-labour pro-union socialists are always so racist, going on about "migrants steal our jobs" ?

I thought that in this day and age we regarded racism as a bad thing. Yet half of the posts in this thread sound almost straight from the BNP manifesto.

Come on guys - admit it - racism and xenophobia go hand in hand with left wing ideals.

This is why the "Nazi" stands for national SOCIALIST, and the BNP is a left wing party.

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I've worked on this site on another project and on this project.

This is not employment. It's a construction project. There are no local tradespeople with expertise in constructing chemical plants, because there hasn't been a chemical plant built in that corner of Linconshire in a generation.

We go worldwide and deliver these things where they're needed. Then we leave.

Chemical plants are built by foreigners (internal or external foreigners). Then they are operated by locals.

It's not cost effective for a community to invest in training staff for jobs that are only going to be in the local area for a couple of years. If these strikers want to do another refinery, the next big jobs are in Portugal and India.

Regardless of how this turns out, nobody is defending anything for their kids, apart from this week's pay packet.

I'm currently doing a project for a plant in Scotland that I last worked on over 25 years ago. I listened to all of the whining back then about me taking away local jobs. It's nonsense. If you had my job at that location, you would need to leave home after a year, because my job, in that location, finished.

The big job being bid in the UK at the moment is a full field development for Kazakhstan. Borat is much cheaper than me, but it's more cost effective for the Kazakhs to pay me to go and sort it out then bu88er off, than it is to train a population up to the level needed to get one of these things in safely, then have them sit around bitching for a generation that there's no more work.

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You will find ultimatley it's markets that decide the price of everything including labour. It's not unions.

Take the underground there will come a time (a hear it's upon us) that the management will look to engineer the labour out of the system, largely because Bob Crow is an unreasonable idiot. The victims?

except that in the case of the railways, they were public sector and the government consistently caved to them - then they have terms and conditions that went with the privatisation. If they were starting again, there's no way they'd get that pay or those terms - it's the legacy of public sector management that we have the situation we do.

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I've worked on this site on another project and on this project.

This is not employment. It's a construction project. There are no local tradespeople with expertise in constructing chemical plants, because there hasn't been a chemical plant built in that corner of Linconshire in a generation.

We go worldwide and deliver these things where they're needed. Then we leave.

Chemical plants are built by foreigners (internal or external foreigners). Then they are operated by locals.

It's not cost effective for a community to invest in training staff for jobs that are only going to be in the local area for a couple of years. If these strikers want to do another refinery, the next big jobs are in Portugal and India.

Regardless of how this turns out, nobody is defending anything for their kids, apart from this week's pay packet.

I'm currently doing a project for a plant in Scotland that I last worked on over 25 years ago. I listened to all of the whining back then about me taking away local jobs. It's nonsense. If you had my job at that location, you would need to leave home after a year, because my job, in that location, finished.

The big job being bid in the UK at the moment is a full field development for Kazakhstan. Borat is much cheaper than me, but it's more cost effective for the Kazakhs to pay me to go and sort it out then bu88er off, than it is to train a population up to the level needed to get one of these things in safely, then have them sit around bitching for a generation that there's no more work.

So, they had got rid of 51 assholes. over 900 d1cks joined them and now the unions are ensuring that 900 more co operative and probably harder working, cheaper, foreign replacements will be found.

I have to say, I would rather see 900 poles doing the job than total give into those d1cks.

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