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UndercoverElephant

Should We Bring Back Hanging?

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????

(I voted no)

No, if for no other reason than that it is the one sentence for which you can't compensate a wrongly convicted innocent.

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Only in the circumstance of complete and irrefutable guilt.

A situation which will never exist. There have been several recent cases of people who confessed having their convictions quashed beause they were mentally ill and put under police pressure.

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Nothing wrong with the death penalty in some cases. Id like to see some good come out of it though, like criminals organs being harvested. Should be some compensation to society.

Life with hard labour might provide more compensation to society.

I would also suggest that the death penalty is the easy way out. Non religious view - you die, the end - no punitive suffering. The religious version, you die and go to hell for all eternity. So in the religious case you are hurrying someone onto hell but hell lasts for ever so it doesn't matter whether you start this week or in fifty years, so therefore it makes no difference. However, if the non-religious view is right then the executee got off lightly. Therefore in order to ensure maximum punishment the convicted should first do life with hard labour and then see what comes next.

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No, because there will always be miscarriages of justice that only come to light 10 years later.

However, for certain crimes life should mean just that.

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Capital and corporal punishment should be brought back.

Our prisons are overcrowded and keeping a prisoner fed and housed for a 'life' term is very expensive for the taxpayer. However, would I trust a government like Labour to ensure punishment was metered out fairly and impartially? Probably not. The police have revealed they are corrupt and politicized.

However in a perfect world, where guilt was proven 100%, then yes, people should pay the ultimate life for their crimes.

Ultimately though its very easy for people relatively unaffected by crime to say no to capital punishment. However, if it was my brother who was stabbed 25 times by someone for disrespecting them or my sister who was gang-raped or my mother who was robbed and killed then I would quite happily see the perpetrators swing. I would probably pull the lever myself.

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The question is _why_ they are overcrowded though.

How is it that Labour has so increased the prevalence of criminality on our streets that we need to keep a world beating percentage of the population jailed?

Or are the Brits just natural born criminals?

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Guest AuntJess

Murder done in the heat of the moment - jail sentence - not a few months either! :rolleyes:

Cold calculated murder, serial murderers, torturers, and paedophile killers........execution: method - firing squad.

Army personnel don't find a problem with killing 'the enemy' outside our land: For the 'enemies' within, the same. B)

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Guest AuntJess
The question is _why_ they are overcrowded though.

How is it that Labour has so increased the prevalence of criminality on our streets that we need to keep a world beating percentage of the population jailed?

Or are the Brits just natural born criminals?

I reckon it is due to being to hard on petty criminals and non-criminals. Any crime that is not violent should be dealt with fairly leniently...y'know summat like non-payment of Community Charge. :rolleyes:

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Life to mean ...LIFE ....

hard time.... Dartmoor type rock breaking

Too many miscariages of justice to go with executions although I agree, when something bad happens to somebody you know, it does make hanging seem a better bet.

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The question is _why_ they are overcrowded though.

How is it that Labour has so increased the prevalence of criminality on our streets that we need to keep a world beating percentage of the population jailed?

Or are the Brits just natural born criminals?

Relegalise and regulate drugs. Empty the prisons. Saving a metric assload of money on policing, prisons, insurance etc etc.

When they decriminalized heroin in Brighton for a year, offering it to addicts on the NHS instead of methadone, burglary fell by 80%.

Edited: Can't spell Brighton apparently

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Capital and corporal punishment should be brought back.

Our prisons are overcrowded and keeping a prisoner fed and housed for a 'life' term is very expensive for the taxpayer. However, would I trust a government like Labour to ensure punishment was metered out fairly and impartially? Probably not. The police have revealed they are corrupt and politicized.

Does it need to be? Smaller cells, fewer privileges, more time locked up, grow their own food, bread and water, making items for the state to sell etc etc. I don't really know the ins and out of it but I imagine prison time could be made cheaper.

In the States the cost of a whole life tariff is about 40% cheaper than the cost of a death penalty. Mainly due I would suppose to the extra court time required.

However in a perfect world, where guilt was proven 100%, then yes, people should pay the ultimate life for their crimes.

I still think the ultimate price would be spending the rest of your life in a 6 by 4 foot concrete box. Where is the punishment if you're dead? Impossible to experience discomfort in the coffin.

Ultimaely though its very easy for people relatively unaffected by crime to say no to capital punishment. However, if it was my brother who was stabbed 25 times by someone for disrespecting them or my sister who was gang-raped or my mother who was robbed and killed then I would quite happily see the perpetrators swing. I would probably pull the lever myself.

But this is exactly the problem - you can't make a rational decision in such a case. Imagine the situation where you pulled the lever and the executee was subsequently proved innocent (and remember this has happened at least 123 times in the States since they reintroduced the death penalty despite all the extra money spent on more thorough trials in death penalty cases).

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Guest AuntJess
Relegalise and regulate drugs. Empty the prisons. Saving a metric assload of money on policing, prisons, insurance etc etc.

When they decriminalized heroin in Briton for a year, offering it to addicts on the NHS instead of methadone, burglary fell by 80%.

They already do that - so I am led to believe.

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Guest AuntJess
Does it need to be? Smaller cells, fewer privileges, more time locked up, grow their own food, bread and water, making items for the state to sell etc etc. I don't really know the ins and out of it but I imagine prison time could be made cheaper.

In the States the cost of a whole life tariff is about 40% cheaper than the cost of a death penalty. Mainly due I would suppose to the extra court time required.

I still think the ultimate price would be spending the rest of your life in a 6 by 4 foot concrete box. Where is the punishment if you're dead? Impossible to experience discomfort in the coffin.

But this is exactly the problem - you can't make a rational decision in such a case. Imagine the situation where you pulled the lever and the executee was subsequently proved innocent (and remember this has happened at least 123 times in the States since they reintroduced the death penalty despite all the extra money spent on more thorough trials in death penalty cases).

Sooner or later someone lets them out. Time spent in a box doesn't punish, but time spent in a cell, by a homicidal sadist, doesn't rehabilitate either. so why not save money.

Those let out invariably kill again and there have been far more cases of released killers reoffending, than of people wrongly executed.

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I reckon it is due to being to hard on petty criminals and non-criminals. Any crime that is not violent should be dealt with fairly leniently...y'know summat like non-payment of Community Charge. :rolleyes:

I have often thought the anyone convicted of a crime should have a sentence in three parts.

First: Retribution - fixed term. Extremely Austere. No possibility of time off for good behaviour. Time on for bad behaviour allowed. This is the punishment phase.

Second: Rehabilitation - variable term with minimum. Less austere, no release without genuine remorse, chance for education, skills training etc. For multiple recidivists this stage could be extended indefinitely.

Third: Reintegration - staged reintroduction to society, like parole but done properly. Government provided and supervised jobs for people without gainful employment, universal electronic tagging, etc. To last indefinitely until the reintegration officer is convinced that you won't reoffend.

At the moment we only seem to have the second stage. There is no punishment for crime and no real attempt to reintegrate people into society.

This would doubtless cost more - but how much do we spend on insurance and policing for recidivists. I would also allow and enforce seizing of all assets that can't be proven to be legitimate on conviction. If the sentence is completed without a successful appeal then these are to be sold off to cover costs. I realise this impacts the families of the criminals which is apparently why it isn't done now - well I don't see why anyone should live off the proceeds of crime - even if it's someone else's crime.

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Guest X-QUORK

Death penalties are State murder. They debase any country who uses them IMO.

That said, life sentences should mean just that, not 10 years.

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Sooner or later someone lets them out. Time spent in a box doesn't punish, but time spent in a cell, by a homicidal sadist, doesn't rehabilitate either. so why not save money.

Doesn't have to be the case - plenty of countries manage to impose whole life tarrifs.

Have you ever spent time in a small cell with nothing to do?

It's 40% more expensive to execute someone than to lock them up in the States.

Those let out invariably kill again and there have been far more cases of released killers reoffending, than of people wrongly executed.

The problem is then letting killers out, not insufficient innocents executed surely?

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Aye, bring back the spanish boots and the iron maiden too. Trial by ordeal would also help sort out the problems.

It's true, the late medieval period was where justice started to go downhill, and now we are paying the price.

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But not, I suspect in China.

No I should imagine not, but at least the States make an attempt to ensure no innocents even if that is not perfect, whereas the chinese have mobile death sentence vans with integrated organ harvesting capabilities, and execute more people than the rest of the world put together. (Although if it has such a deterrent value surely that number should be going down rather than up). I'm not sure that China is a shining example to hold up in this case, although to be fair they probably execute fewer innocents in China as pretty much anything seems to carry the death penalty there (eg cycling in the proximity of Tiananmen square for instance).

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