eric pebble Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Property was mis-sold, end of story. Ramped by endless property porn programmes on the TV. And complete lies from the Government about shortage of housing and pent-up demand. All new-build that wasn't affordable was just Ponzi . . . and hardly surprising it has resulted in ghost towns. "property was mis-sold, end of story. Ramped by endless property porn programmes on the TV. And complete lies from the Government about shortage of housing and pent-up demand, and pumped up and financed by LIAR LOANS....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Teacher - No Guru Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 gold is still a currency, a worldwide currency. Gold is the stable currency that all fiat currencies move up or down in relation to.You see gold as a commodity with no intrinsic value driven by market forces, explain why it can not be viewed as a currency in its own right. It increases with value (in fiat terms) with fear as people dump their currency for this safe haven currency, not unlike exchange rates between say the dollar and pound. It increases with inflation as fiat is debased. It decreases when fear has gone and markets thrive because a fiat currency is stronger but it doesn't fall in all currencies - only in dollar terms - like a currency itself. I wouldn't deny that people regard gold as money due to it's historical use as currency and it's relative scarcity means that it can be used as a good hedge against short term stock market fluctuation. Over the last thirty years, however, it has failed to keep pace with inflation and performed badly as an asset class. In 1980 gold hit £840.00 per troy ounce but then fell to a low of £250.00 per troy ounce by September 1999, bounced around that level for three years and only started picking up post 2001 with the general rise in commodity inflation/ global uncertainty following 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am every salesmans nightmare.Anything worthwhile sells itself, so the more they push the more rats I smell. Same here, i switch off and walk away from pushy salesman. Or insult them by asking for a 90% discount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Lucky your employer employs some otherwise how would you get paid? Ignorant comment. Doctors, hospitals, schools, etc all don't have sales people. How do they survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie6 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I do wish all those on this forum who think the UK is a sh*thole would just b*gger off.And shut the door behind them. And yes, I have lived abroad, for 15 years. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinspain Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 My wife works in Alcobendas, but we live in south Madrid. If you live outside Madrid you have the chance of living in a large house with a garden. If you live in Madrid you have to settle for a flat, but you can readily access the best nightlife in Europe. We chose the latter. Does this place really exist? Are you sure you don't mean Benidorm or Torremolinos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I wouldn't deny that people regard gold as money due to it's historical use as currency and it's relative scarcity means that it can be used as a good hedge against short term stock market fluctuation. Over the last thirty years, however, it has failed to keep pace with inflation and performed badly as an asset class.In 1980 gold hit £840.00 per troy ounce but then fell to a low of £250.00 per troy ounce by September 1999, bounced around that level for three years and only started picking up post 2001 with the general rise in commodity inflation/ global uncertainty following 9/11. In 1980 gold spiked to $840 but it was so nquickly up and down that no one could sell at that price. It did not fall to a low of $250 it simply returned to trend. Since 1975 gold has increased from $150 to over $1000 and currently sits at $934. I will let you take a calculator to that and compare it with inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Teacher - No Guru Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 In 1980 gold spiked to $840 but it was so nquickly up and down that no one could sell at that price. It did not fall to a low of $250 it simply returned to trend.Since 1975 gold has increased from $150 to over $1000 and currently sits at $934. I will let you take a calculator to that and compare it with inflation. Take a look at these yearly averaged gold prices: Gold_Prices_2009_to_1980.doc Pre. 1971 is irrelevant as the price of gold was fixed to the Dollar. Gold has been sub $400 per troy ounce for 22 of the past 34 years since 1975. At it's current price it is only just keeping up with inflation over that period and it is likely that Gold has peaked. Gold_Prices_2009_to_1980.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Take a look at these yearly averaged gold prices:Gold_Prices_2009_to_1980.doc Pre. 1971 is irrelevant as the price of gold was fixed to the Dollar. Gold has been sub $400 per troy ounce for 22 of the past 34 years since 1975. At it's current price it is only just keeping up with inflation over that period and it is likely that Gold has peaked. That is all in dollars and explains only that you do not understand gold either as a currency or in inflationary terms. In 1971 gold was less than 50 rand, now over 4000. In 1971, less than AU$30, recently over AU$ 900. In 1971 less than 20 rupee, now over 30,000. Seems to have held up pretty well in inflationary terms against those currencies just as it has against the pound. In 1999 it was $250 and recently over $1000 (up forfold) In 1999 it was £150 and recently £690. If gold is viewed as a currency or as a constant then one can see the effect of debasement or inflation of other currencies. some historic charts from 30 years on http://goldprice.org/30-year-gold-price-history.html Edited June 19, 2009 by richyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Method Man Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Disagree. f*ck them all...every single person who bought a property this decade contributed to pricing me out the market... you should buy them a drink then nob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 That is all in dollars and explains only that you do not understand gold either as a currency or in inflationary terms.In 1971 gold was less than 50 rand, now over 4000. In 1971, less than AU$30, recently over AU$ 900. In 1971 less than 20 rupee, now over 30,000. Seems to have held up pretty well in inflationary terms against those currencies just as it has against the pound. In 1999 it was $250 and recently over $1000 (up forfold) In 1999 it was £150 and recently £690. If gold is viewed as a currency or as a constant then one can see the effect of debasement or inflation of other currencies. some historic charts from 30 years on http://goldprice.org/30-year-gold-price-history.html Also the dollar peg does not make prices irrelevant in currency terms, quickly lifted from another site by a great chartist "In 1928 gold was £4.25/oz. In 1949 it was £8.40. This means that 1 Sov initially cost £1 and was £2 by 1949. It then changed to $34.71 which meant that £1 = $4.132. By 1970 gold was still $35.94 ......... All but the same price. Which means that a Sov was still £2. In 1971 the peg was pulled and pog rose. As I write this pog is $940 which divided by the original ratio 1:4.132 that same ounce of gold should cost us £227.50. The reality is that it will cost us £570 (I paid £567 yesterday <tnx "P">) The Americans claim that inflation has been "whatever" ....... we also lost TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE. Yes x2.5.......... where has that gone ????? Boy have we been lied to, or, at best miss-managed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrabus Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Take a look at these yearly averaged gold prices:Gold_Prices_2009_to_1980.doc Pre. 1971 is irrelevant as the price of gold was fixed to the Dollar. Gold has been sub $400 per troy ounce for 22 of the past 34 years since 1975. At it's current price it is only just keeping up with inflation over that period and it is likely that Gold has peaked. Gold will be above 2000$ an oz within 12month .The way the USA is printing it can not fail to go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Gold will be above 2000$ an oz within 12month .The way the USA is printing it can not fail to go up. Sure, and £ will be in the Euro by Chrimbo according to GOM. I'm nearly tempted to start a sig with wild predictions, like other posters have done with bulls - I just can't be bothered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sure, and £ will be in the Euro by Chrimbo according to GOM. I'm nearly tempted to start a sig with wild predictions, like other posters have done with bulls - I just can't be bothered so when do you think it will be paritypound ? let me guess, you think that the UK will emerge stronger from this, & the pound will once again sail across the financial seas at full mast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Teacher - No Guru Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Also the dollar peg does not make prices irrelevant in currency terms, quickly lifted from another site by a great chartist"In 1928 gold was £4.25/oz. In 1949 it was £8.40. This means that 1 Sov initially cost £1 and was £2 by 1949. It then changed to $34.71 which meant that £1 = $4.132. By 1970 gold was still $35.94 ......... All but the same price. Which means that a Sov was still £2. In 1971 the peg was pulled and pog rose. As I write this pog is $940 which divided by the original ratio 1:4.132 that same ounce of gold should cost us £227.50. The reality is that it will cost us £570 (I paid £567 yesterday <tnx "P">) The Americans claim that inflation has been "whatever" ....... we also lost TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE. Yes x2.5.......... where has that gone ????? Boy have we been lied to, or, at best miss-managed." Of course there are currency fluctuations to account for, but Gold is not a good investment. If I had bought £5000.00 gold in 1976 when the pound went to $1.60, i'd have just short of 60 troy ounces of gold. Todays value at current exchange rates is £34,068.00. The value of £5000.00 in 1976 is equivalent to £27,000.00 now adjusted for inflation over that period. This is not a great return over 33 years and prior to 2007 the value of your gold would have lagged below inflation. On the other hand if I had bought a house in 1976 for £5000.00, would it have outperformed gold, let me see? Edited June 19, 2009 by GGGGGGGGarry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) so when do you think it will be paritypound ? let me guess, you think that the UK will emerge stronger from this, & the pound will once again sail across the financial seas at full mast. Parity with the Euro? Even if your theory were right, our beloved European partners would never let us in at such a favourable exchange rate, more likely something like 0.70. The £ will not rule the waves again, but imo it is still undervalued by at least 10% vs the Euro. Edited June 19, 2009 by VoteWithYourFeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 you should buy them a drink then nob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Parity with the Euro? Even if your theory were right, our beloved European partners would never let us in at such a favourable exchange rate, more likely something like 0.70.The £ will not rule the waves again, but imo it is still undervalued by at least 10% vs the Euro. why ? I would imagine the same reason the UK thinks it is better than the rest of Europe.....sentiment, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. times are'a'changin my virtual sterling warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trampa501 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Does this place really exist? Are you sure you don't mean Benidorm or Torremolinos? Not the worst place in the world to be actually. Alcobendas has a lot of transport links with Madrid (metro, train, nearby airport!). Think of a Spanish Hounslow!!!! (I have to say though, having worked in both locations, the quality of life must be 10 times greater in Alcobendas than in Hounslow). A fair number of British expats in Madrid will have visited Alcobendas at some point, as a lot of business English classes are given there on the business parks. Not all Brits in Spain are to be found on the beach or in the bar! Alcobendas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 why ? I would imagine the same reason the UK thinks it is better than the rest of Europe.....sentiment, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. times are'a'changin my virtual sterling warrior GOM do you not read my posts then? I explained many times on HPC why I think £ is undervalued vs Euro. I'm not a £ warrior, I'm a EURO UBER-BEAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Doctors, hospitals, schools, etc all don't have sales people. How do they survive? Oh don't make it easy for me please .......... I will do it in capitals so it is easier. THEY ARE FUNDED BY PRIVATE ENTERPRISE THE ONLY THING THAT CREATES PROFIT THAT PAY WAGES,VAT AND TAXES. THESE TAXES ARE THEN USED TO PAY FOR PUBLIC SERVICES. THATS WHY THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SALESPEOPLE THEY DON'T HAVE TO GENERATE ANY MONEY THEY ARE A 100% FUNDED BY THE ABILITY OF COMPANIES LARGE AND SMALL TO SELL AND HENCE GENERATE JOBS, PROFITS AND TAXES. You didn't really mean your comment did you? if it was irony I am sorry I missed it it seemed so earnest. Edited June 19, 2009 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 Men In A Boat Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am sure that 'salespeople' here means those that try to persuade you to buy something you don't need......including for example overpriced property at the height of a boom. They are happy to make 1% on a decision that may bankrupt the buyer.......and the scum that phone you from abroad offering you mortgages and asking personal questions in the manner of a US immigration official. Poster said ALL sales people. Quite frankly a ridiculous statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Of course there are currency fluctuations to account for, but Gold is not a good investment. If I had bought £5000.00 gold in 1976 when the pound went to $1.60, i'd have just short of 60 troy ounces of gold. Todays value at current exchange rates is £34,068.00. The value of £5000.00 in 1976 is equivalent to £27,000.00 now adjusted for inflation over that period. This is not a great return over 33 years and prior to 2007 the value of your gold would have lagged below inflation. Not a great investment, no, but as you show (am sure the figures should be better) gold has been a great inflationary hedge in sterling terms. It would certainly have preserved your wealth. Gold is not an investment it is an insurance policy to preserve the spending power of your current wealth in fiat. Gold is a currency that has fared reasonably well against the pound, much better against other currencies. Over recent years gold has been a poor investment in metals, it has been outperformed massively by copper and zinc etc and didn't even make the top 10. But, that is as an investment rather than being regarded in currency terms - how would your £5000 have fared had you bought dollars or rupees or pesatas instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Who did they imagine was going to live in all these places?What was the business plan? Foreigners/selling to foreigners tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Foreigners/selling to foreignerstim I knew a guy back in 2002/3 who was buying off plan and selling at big profits. He sold one as soon as the foundations went in and made a good percentage I think his plan was to make enough to own some outright and live on the rental income. Not sure how that is working out but he certainly made money during the boom. Anyone involved in spanish property was motivated by greed, either making money or expecting to live it up on the same £. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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