Torys U Turn On Eu Referendum

[Johnny Storm]

Kenneth Clarke softens Tory line on Lisbon treaty

A future Tory government would accept the Lisbon treaty and concentrate instead on repatriating powers, mainly in the field of employment, the shadow business secretary, Kenneth Clarke, said yesterday.

In a softening of the party's opposition to the treaty, which bolsters the power of EU institutions at the expense of member states, Clarke said that a Tory government would not reopen the measure if it was fully ratified.

The party's leader, David Cameron, has caused some confusion over the treaty in recent months. During the elections to the European parliament, he said he would hold a referendum if the treaty had not been ratified by all EU member states.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/ju...isbon-treaty-eu

[loginandtonic]

the certainly do sound confused about the issue, they will lose my vote if they do not give us a referendum, they may lose my vote anyway to UKIP, i am growing in my dislike for anything EU

[interestrateripoff]

There should be a referendum on it, let the people decide it's our country.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

Kenneth Clarke softens Tory line on Lisbon treaty

A future Tory government would accept the Lisbon treaty and concentrate instead on repatriating powers, mainly in the field of employment, the shadow business secretary, Kenneth Clarke, said yesterday.

In a softening of the party's opposition to the treaty, which bolsters the power of EU institutions at the expense of member states, Clarke said that a Tory government would not reopen the measure if it was fully ratified.

The party's leader, David Cameron, has caused some confusion over the treaty in recent months. During the elections to the European parliament, he said he would hold a referendum if the treaty had not been ratified by all EU member states.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/ju...isbon-treaty-eu

Ken Clarke is a bankers boy

he needs to go

and we have mandelson arguing for the euro in Labour and clarke arguing for it in the tories

wake up

[MarkG]

There should be a referendum on it, let the people decide it's our country.

Yeah, but British politicos know that the EU would lose in a referendum, and they're all eager to do a Kinnock at the EU pork-trough once they're no longer electable in the UK.

Of course the BNP are probably celebrating tonight knowing that this will only push more votes their way.

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

Ken Clarke is a bankers boy

so is Cameron, literally.

[Guest absolutezero]

And you honestly expected the Tories to give the public a vote!? Get real!

They're as committed to the EU as Labour and the LibDems.

[Johnny Storm]

Of course the BNP are probably celebrating tonight knowing that this will only push more votes their way.

Of course it will. I mean if the main parties keep promising one thing and then when elected do the opposite, people will stop voting (which we are already seeing) or try fringe parties to see if they will keep their word.

I'm going to be looking more into UKIP between now and the next election.

[grumpy-old-man-returns]

Ken Clarke is a bankers boy

he needs to go

and we have mandelson arguing for the euro in Labour and clarke arguing for it in the tories

wake up

& this imo is why the UK will go full Euro very soon.

he has a lot more power'n'pull than most think.

[Guest sillybear2]

Yup, it all depends on Ireland, if they approve it we get it, even if the Tories take office. The UKIP guy said this a couple of weeks back, they're the only one's being honest, the Conservatives aren't even guaranteeing a referendum and Dublin will essentially decide the fate of the UK.

If Labour weren't in such a meltdown they would have picked them up on this, but Cameron got a free ride and did quite well in the elections.

[Alan B'Stard MP]

Have always voted Tory. If they U turn on this - they are scum in my book. BNP gets my vote thereafter.

[Justice]

And you honestly expected the Tories to give the public a vote!? Get real!

They're as committed to the EU as Labour and the LibDems.

Yep the 3 main parties are in bed togeather and thats why we never get asked a dam thing and yet they still calim it's a domocracy.

You can vote for the left hand, or right but you still get the same person cooking the books and taking bribes

[abharrisson]

Kenneth Clarke softens Tory line on Lisbon treaty

A future Tory government would accept the Lisbon treaty and concentrate instead on repatriating powers, mainly in the field of employment, the shadow business secretary, Kenneth Clarke, said yesterday.

In a softening of the party's opposition to the treaty, which bolsters the power of EU institutions at the expense of member states, Clarke said that a Tory government would not reopen the measure if it was fully ratified.

The party's leader, David Cameron, has caused some confusion over the treaty in recent months. During the elections to the European parliament, he said he would hold a referendum if the treaty had not been ratified by all EU member states.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/ju...isbon-treaty-eu

I think they are not making a big thing of the referndum becasue if they say "we'll definately have a referendum when we come to power" then they risk not being to deliver.

How this works I think is that the Irish are shortly to have another referendum, if they vote yes then it goes through, as Britain has already signed up.

Once it has been officially ratified then theres no going back I think.

Now the likelihood is that the Irish referendum will happen before brown goes so it won't be possible for the tories to have a referendum.

The rpoblem is that pre-ratification the tories could have a referendum and re-open debate ect, post the Irish vote and ratification they would have to have an absolutely huge row with europe to change anything and that is not what they intend. What they want is to remain friendly but not let things go further. Having a huge fallout is going to be unproductive which is why they are rowing back from an absolute promise now.

[tricksters]

There should be a referendum on it, let the people decide it's our country.

None of this should be a surprise. Kenneth Clarke has always been a committed Europhile. Some think he's a decent chap. Others think he's a fat-cat fraud who has been complicit at an early stage in our obligations to a Federal Europe.

Tories have a referendum on Europe? That would take some serious bottle and it's not going to come from them.

[Johnny Storm]

Now the likelihood is that the Irish referendum will happen before brown goes so it won't be possible for the tories to have a referendum.

Not being funny but any treaty can be broken, or do you think Europe will invade us or impose trade sanctions?

I do think there is a danger in being tricked into voting for the same old crap under a tory government just with a bit less intrusion into every day life and more efficient services.

But would be worried about voting for UKIP in case Labour got back in just with less majority Its going to be an interesting year.

I think they are not making a big thing of the referndum becasue if they say "we'll definately have a referendum when we come to power" then they risk not being to deliver.

In my mind thats exactly what Cameron has been saying, but maybe im just hearing what I want to hear.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Johnny Storm

[Patfig]

Gosh this is interesting and dangerous. the UK people dont want to join the Euro IMPO, and never wanted to. The party that promises a vote on adopting the Euro will do very well, but it has to be a vote.

[non frog]

..... they're all eager to do a Kinnock at the EU pork-trough once they're no longer electable in the UK.

.....

A perfect description of the repugnant UKIP

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

Ken Clarke is a bankers boy

he needs to go

and we have mandelson arguing for the euro in Labour and clarke arguing for it in the tories

wake up

Ken Clarke is a Bilderberg regular and a longstanding supporter of closer EU integration

He was one of the main conspirators who toppled Thatcher, due largely to her intransigence over Europe.

George Osborne is also a Bilderberg regular. So is Peter Mandelson. George Osborne famously pi$$ed off Nathaniel Rothschild after he, Osborne and Mandelson dined and wined together in Crete (was it Crete? I can't remember?)

The fact is folks, democracy is just a charade designed to make dumb bovine morons think they have choices

There are no choices.

Lib/Lab/Con is all owned and controlled by the landowning class. Socialism? Capitalism? All an irrelevence. All that matters is that they keep control and they keep all the money and power. They are asset stripping the people. There are no goodies or baddies. There is no political force that is better or worse. They are all evil f*cks and the sooner people wake up and realize it the better.

[General Melchett]

They never had mine.

But if true, they've just lost some grudging support that they might be the least worst next option for gobberment.

[PopGun]

Vote for your independent. If you don't share their views then stand yourself.

Anyone starting a book and giving odds for when the Torys change their minds about ID cards too?

[JonoP]

Just to keep some balance - This announcement makes me more likely to vote Tory (although I would have anyway). I am pro-europe. I think that if you take a long term view it makes perfect sense.

[Johnny Storm]

The fact is folks, democracy is just a charade designed to make dumb bovine morons think they have choices

Thats pretty much what they said in the Matrix, that people would accept programming if they felt they had a choice. I dunno how much Irving stole from the Matrix or visa versa. But its a bit if you thnk about it.

[mdman]

What should the EU referendum question be?

IMO, the tories haven't made a specific promise for a specific referendum, because the question depends on the legal treaties in force at the time. And like the rest of us, they can't predict the future

[General Melchett]

Just to keep some balance - This announcement makes me more likely to vote Tory (although I would have anyway). I am pro-europe. I think that if you take a long term view it makes perfect sense.

I'm pro 'Europe.' I have a pan-European job, and I find the closed minded, little England attitudes in many UK colleagues difficult to relate to.

I'm anti EU superstate.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

I wouldn't worry yourselves, politics is just theatre for bankers.

The main question is what mode of theft are the new lot planning?