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Ben Kinsella's Muderers - Different Species

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They speak a kind of simplified sub-English that just contains words for the basic concepts that they deal with, such as violence, theft, lying, police, grassing, threats etc. Truly untermenschen, all of them:

Letter from Michael Alleyne to his cousin Kellie while on remand. Kellie had told police that Alleyne had admitted to her that he killed Ben. Where necessary we have added explanations of the language used in brackets:

'To Slag aka snitch, You are a let down to the family.

'You are not my cousin, believe that. How are you gonna give my letters to the Boyden [police] and be snitching on me? You are not real at all. When will I see you?

Your mum's still on road [living in community], so be careful how you move. You don't know how I move on road. I'm a boss. People in North no who I am. F*** that. When the s*** hits the fan, you snitch.

'I don't need to tell you anything before you tell Boyden, you snitch.

'I don't know who the f*** you are, you don't try to keep me out of jail.

'I'm a real nigga and you ask your dad about me, he's seen things.

'You all best hope I don't bust case [to walk free] because people will be in trouble and you will never snitch on anyone again, I promise you that.

'Say no more, I am ghost [disappeared]. 'I ain't got time to rite to snitches, family that's not real.

'I got your statements, everyone will see Kellie is a snitch.

You see, snitches get touched [hurt]. You see blood [brother or fellow gang member], Tottenham ride [flee] or die. All the family know you are a snitch so if I get found guilty it's down to you.'

Jade Braithwaite, Michael Alleyne and Juress Kika were recorded in police van after their arrest:

KIKA: 'Someone needs to deal with these snitches in the hood [neighbourhood] blood [term of comradeship], serious, blood.'

ALLEYNE: 'No one knows who's snitching though man.'

KIKA: 'Huh?'

ALLEYNE: 'That's the hardest thing about snitching, blood.'

ALLEYNE describing the murder: 'See when it happened yeah like boom, it was kinda like a quick ting like boom, went down the road, come back up, boom boom, finished, boom, ghost, you get what I'm saying?'

BRAITHWAITE (inventing a story that he wasn't there): 'You know me from the endz [neighbourhood], that's it. If you mans [guys] say you look, you weren't with me and s*** man, bless [i'd be grateful].

'Basically Todd and O.Z. [his friends] said I was with them, you get me? Cause if them mans say that innit and you mans say look, I weren't nowhere near, you get me? Then it's bless, you know what I'm saying?'

KIKA: 'If they find that we, if like it gets a bit sticky yeah, and then man has to say a little story [lie], it's gonna have to be what you say, you weren't with us.

'That's how you gotta keep it, no one was with no one.'

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They speak a kind of simplified sub-English that just contains words for the basic concepts that they deal with, such as violence, theft, lying, police, grassing, threats etc. Truly untermenschen, all of them:

And then the liberal "dat's waycist" hand-wringers wonder why the met stops certain ethnic types and genders more than others.... :rolleyes:

Yep thanks for this wonderful multiculti society!

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They speak a kind of simplified sub-English that just contains words for the basic concepts that they deal with, such as violence, theft, lying, police, grassing, threats etc. Truly untermenschen, all of them:

Is he allowed to call himself a real Nigga ? Surely thats against the law

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Just to add some balance, a certain percentage of young men are predisposed towards violence, that is why we have traditionally had large standing armies. It channels their energy for the benefit of the empire, and reduces their number through warfare. Large numbers of underemployed young men within an urban setting simply transfers the violence of the battlefield to your hometown. It is also the source of so much can fodder for terrorist groups. Either find something useful for them to do, or they will find ways to explore their violent impulses. The problem is that innocent people are likely to be the target. Violent young men need culling, it's simply a matter of finding ways to do it. Liberals need not apply.....

As an aside I read an interesting proposition that the Chinese will deal with their imbalance of male v females (particularly young men) by starting a land based war in South East Asia and culling their violent males before they have a chance to destabilise the regime.

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Mongrel gibberish, isn't it?

"See when it happened yeah like boom, it was kinda like a quick ting like boom, went down the road, come back up, boom boom, finished, boom, ghost, you get what I'm saying?'

Yes, dear chap, you are saying "stabbing an innocent 16 year old boy was pretty quick and easy".

We need to liquidate antisocial elements like these. All of them.

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They speak a kind of simplified sub-English that just contains words for the basic concepts that they deal with, such as violence, theft, lying, police, grassing, threats etc. Truly untermenschen, all of them:

Those two (whites) that murdered the two French students were more 'untermenshen' in my opinion. As was the (white) Austrian, Fritzl, who kept his daughter in a cellar for decades raping her and farcing her to father his children. As are the (apparently mainly white) paedophiles.

Funny that Fritzl and most paedophiles are well educated and 'talk properly' though.

Just my humble opinion.

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Good phone in programme on Talk Sport this morning; almost all to a man calling for tougher sentences and / or the death penalty.

I for one, have always advocated off shoring our prisons to Siberia; though with an added hard labour component. Which of our dumbo politicans will have the guts to say, enough is enough and start doing something different?

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Good phone in programme on Talk Sport this morning; almost all to a man calling for tougher sentences and / or the death penalty.

I for one, have always advocated off shoring our prisons to Siberia; though with an added hard labour component. Which of our dumbo politicans will have the guts to say, enough is enough and start doing something different?

Agreed. Death penalty is too fast for these (or any) people. I want them to suffer as long as possible.

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They speak a kind of simplified sub-English that just contains words for the basic concepts that they deal with, such as violence, theft, lying, police, grassing, threats etc. Truly untermenschen, all of them:

From Wikipedia

Untermenschen is a term from Nazi racial ideology used to describe "inferior people", especially "the masses from the East," that is Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, and anyone else who was not an "Aryan" according to the contemporary Nazi race terminology. The German word Mensch literally means person.

You could have chosen other words................

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You could have chosen other words................

Thats the problem in this country, how do you solve a problem when all the words to describe it seem to be forbidden.

If you work from the premise that these people are just like us in thought, behavior and action then how do you actually fix the behaviour of murdering a random 16 year old the day he finished his exams.

And reading the rest of the Wiki..

Although usually considered to have been coined by the Nazis themselves, the term "under man" in the above mentioned sense was actually first used by American author Lothrop Stoddard in the title of his 1922 pamphlet The Revolt Against Civilization: The Menace of the Under Man. It was later adopted by the Nazis from that book's German version Der Kulturumsturz: Die Drohung des Untermenschen (1925).[1] The German word "Untermensch" itself had been used earlier (not in a racial sense), e.g. in a 1899 novel by Theodor Fontane. Since most writers who employ the term do not address the question of when and how the word entered the German language (and therefore do not seem to be aware of Stoddard's original term "under man"), "Untermensch" is usually back-translated into English as "sub-human."

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Good phone in programme on Talk Sport this morning; almost all to a man calling for tougher sentences and / or the death penalty.

In stark contrast to R5, which featured a criminal defence lawyer followed by a 'youth worker' who defended the sentences and casually dismissed the victim's family with the argument that no sentence would ever be sufficient for them.

I would support the death sentence for these individuals without a flicker of hesitation.

Though as an aside, I note that the victim was drinking in a bar celebrating his GCSE results. Not quite the innocent little cherub, given that he was two years below the minimum drinking age...

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Thats the problem in this country, how do you solve a problem when all the words to describe it seem to be forbidden.

If you work from the premise that these people are just like us in thought, behavior and action then how do you actually fix the behaviour of murdering a random 16 year old the day he finished his exams.

And reading the rest of the Wiki..

Hah hah.

Soooooooooo....

The original poster moans about the three defendants talking in patois. Complains it is not English (although it is actually English based). He then uses the expression untermenschen to describe them. A term which has, of course, been in the Oxford English Dictionary since its inception in 1895.

Do not get me wrong, these three are vermin. But they are no different from the white trash that killed those French students.

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The original poster moans about the three defendants talking in patois.

I think his/her point was broader than a simple complaint. It was to draw attention to the fact that the defendant appears unable to communicate in anything other than patois, thereby indicating that he has totally opted out of what most people consider to be society's norms, as did his casual and lethal use of a knife.

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Do not get me wrong, these three are vermin. But they are no different from the white trash that killed those French students.

Agreed. However you can't call any pure white people 'untermenschen' no matter what they've done as you'll only confuse and anger the hordes of BNP supporters on this site.

:lol:

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Brrappp, Brrappp, Brrappp, Pop, pop, pop was previously all I thought such specimens could use to communicate in English wit dem bredrins. I see even the scumbags of society are beginning to grasp rudimentary pidgin inglish.

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Was in Wales yesterday. In the supermarket lots of people were speaking a language I did not understand. I'm pretty certain they were the same species.

When we don't understand people, and we fear them, and we don't know what do do about it, then we call them another species. Does not make the problem go away.

There will be a short period of media hand-wringing (that will sell lots of papers) and a lot of public noise (from people who buy papers). Those who actually have to do something useful will sit quiet until its all over and calmly think.

I don't trust public outrage. 100 years ago if you suggested that a woman could harm a child you would be considered a pervert. Today a female nursery worker can be arrested for child porn and is thought of as a pervert. Is the conclusion the public didn't have a clue 100 years ago? If so it begs the question of whether 100 years will demonstrate that today's public doesn't have a clue.

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Was in Wales yesterday. In the supermarket lots of people were speaking a language I did not understand. I'm pretty certain they were the same species.

When we don't understand people, and we fear them, and we don't know what do do about it, then we call them another species. Does not make the problem go away.

There will be a short period of media hand-wringing (that will sell lots of papers) and a lot of public noise (from people who buy papers). Those who actually have to do something useful will sit quiet until its all over and calmly think.

I don't trust public outrage. 100 years ago if you suggested that a woman could harm a child you would be considered a pervert. Today a female nursery worker can be arrested for child porn and is thought of as a pervert. Is the conclusion the public didn't have a clue 100 years ago? If so it begs the question of whether 100 years will demonstrate that today's public doesn't have a clue.

Sorry, your post is far too sensible for this site.

Marks awarded: E- (for effort)

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Though as an aside, I note that the victim was drinking in a bar celebrating his GCSE results. Not quite the innocent little cherub, given that he was two years below the minimum drinking age...
Bob Hamlyn, Ben's headteacher at Holloway School, Islington, added: "Ben did really well in all of his subjects, and we are all very proud of his achievements.

"His excellent results are a fitting testament to his very hard work and positive attitude and will be a lasting memory of a remarkable young man."

He was 18 months shy of being able to legally drink in a pub... So what...

Youngsters should not be encouraged to underage drink but this hardly makes him a bad person. He obviously studied hard and at least he was not sitting in a park or on a street corner harrassing the ****** out of the public.

Sounds like he was a sensible lad.

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Actions speak louder than words.

It doesn't matter what dialect these individuals speak or what race these individuals are. What matters is they murdered an innocent boy and have shown little or no remorse for killing him. I personally don't believe in the death sentence but rather they spend the rest of their lives behind bars - a life (behind bars) for a life.

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In stark contrast to R5, which featured a criminal defence lawyer followed by a 'youth worker' who defended the sentences and casually dismissed the victim's family with the argument that no sentence would ever be sufficient for them.

I would support the death sentence for these individuals without a flicker of hesitation.

Though as an aside, I note that the victim was drinking in a bar celebrating his GCSE results. Not quite the innocent little cherub, given that he was two years below the minimum drinking age...

Most of us have been served alcohol prior to reaching the legal drinking age, no one deserves to be murdered for it, celebtrating his GCSE results ,well that must be the crime of the century in your eyes.

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Guest X-QUORK
I personally don't believe in the death sentence but rather they spend the rest of their lives behind bars - a life (behind bars) for a life.

+1

Nasty pieces of work.

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With crimes like these we look to the law to pass stiff sentences for 3 reasons.

1) As a punishment, so those found guilty know what they did was wrong.

2) As a deterrent to others from doing the same thing.

3) To ensure that the public is protected from these people by taking them off of the streets.

I personally do not think that 19 years minimum is sufficient for something as evil as this.

40 years should be the minimum.

As for all this stuff about how the lives of the guilty were blighted by a bad family life, that should be treated as irrelevent. Sure, lets intervene when the children are young if you like, and show them another way.

But when people die, and the legal system gets involved, its too late. 40 years minimum for points 1) 2) and 3) above is the only suitable course of action at that point.

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Sorry, your post is far too sensible for this site.

Marks awarded: E- (for effort)

Thank you for such kind words. ;) I always was a lazy booger.

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Was in Wales yesterday. In the supermarket lots of people were speaking a language I did not understand. I'm pretty certain they were the same species.

When we don't understand people, and we fear them, and we don't know what do do about it, then we call them another species. Does not make the problem go away.

There will be a short period of media hand-wringing (that will sell lots of papers) and a lot of public noise (from people who buy papers). Those who actually have to do something useful will sit quiet until its all over and calmly think.

I don't trust public outrage. 100 years ago if you suggested that a woman could harm a child you would be considered a pervert. Today a female nursery worker can be arrested for child porn and is thought of as a pervert. Is the conclusion the public didn't have a clue 100 years ago? If so it begs the question of whether 100 years will demonstrate that today's public doesn't have a clue.

Welsh eh, sounds pretty alien to me................

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