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Nhs 'faces Huge Budget Shortfall'

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8091427.stm

The health service will face the most severe and sustained financial shortfall in its history after 2011, a report by NHS managers warns.

The NHS Confederation report says the health service in England will not survive unchanged, the BBC has learned.

Managers at its conference will be told they face an "extremely challenging" financial outlook.

Health Secretary Andy Burnham said NHS funding had tripled since 1997, putting it on a strong financial footing.

The report, to be published on Wednesday, warns any modest cash increases could be outstripped by rising costs within the health service.

This would leave the NHS in England facing a real-terms reduction of between £8bn and 10bn over the three years after 2011.

'Urgent action'

The cost of new treatments and the ageing population are two of the factors causing the inflation in the health service, the report says.

The shortfall means a cut in staff numbers is unavoidable and it may be time for a cap on the budget for new drugs to be considered, it adds.

The confederation says urgent action needs to be taken to find innovative ways of making the service more efficient before the financial pressure increases.

Unions representing NHS staff are warning that short term cuts and increased use of private companies is not the answer.

The head of policy at the NHS Confederation, Nigel Edwards, said: "Having had seven years of plenty it now looks like seven years of famine from 2011 onwards.

"We are really going to have to think very deeply and carefully about everything we do and subject it to very rigorous scrutiny - and enlist all of our doctors, our front line clinical staff in rethinking the way we do things."

The confederation warns against previous strategies such as "slash and burn" indiscriminate savings, letting waiting lists grow or allowing health service pay to fall out of line with the rest of the economy.

The report is flawed it's assuming that there will be modest growth in income. I find it hard to believe the NHS will be getting any new money, it will be lucky to keep it's current level of spending commitment.

What happens if there isn't the modest growth?

And like any govt report they are likely to have got the estimate wrong, I predict it will be more like £16bn - £20bn.

The govt has ramped up borrowing which requires interest payments which will suck even more money out of the budget good job the authors covered that.

I've been banging on about this at work as we are a mixed dept with the NHS luckily I work with really intelligent people so I've just been ignored although they do apparently discuss these issues just not with me so they get to keep living on La La land.

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The NHS is as wasteful, mismanaged and over-managed as General Motors.

If it were a company, it should be allowed to go bankrupt.

This will be the first and biggest issue resulting from the abyss of Governmental

debt taken on to rescue the Financial Structure of the UK - the DRASTIC

reduction of public services.

For decent healthcare, in the event of a major health issue, I expect to have

to travel to India.

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i saw a related item on the bbc news last night suggesting cutting front line services and the drugs budget.

no mention of looking at cutting the bureaucracy or management overheads which I found the most depressing part

but I suppose you need more management to put all these cost cutting operations into action :(

Edited by ghostbusters

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there just arent enough sick people to support the 5 million managers in the NHS.

we need to do our duty and drive over a pedestrian on our way to work today.

please stagger this action as Ambulances are in very short supply, as actual medical equipment and staff are needing to be cut back, so that the organisation can remain in budget without having to cull vital management staff.

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Health Secretary Andy Burnham said NHS funding had tripled since 1997, putting it on a strong financial footing.

Quick! Best trade the car in for something that does 10mpg. It'll put me on a sound financial footing.

(Edit... missing word)

Edited by Moo

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is it not all part of the EU's plan to privatise everything of value. Run it down, then sell it off cheap to your pals.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
The NHS is as wasteful, mismanaged and over-managed as General Motors.

If it were a company, it should be allowed to go bankrupt.

This will be the first and biggest issue resulting from the abyss of Governmental

debt taken on to rescue the Financial Structure of the UK - the DRASTIC

reduction of public services.

For decent healthcare, in the event of a major health issue, I expect to have

to travel to India.

Just don't go to Kerala.

Their doctors and nurses are all over here.

I'm sure the NHS, which is a collectivist system required by everyone at some stage in their lives, would manage on a few extra billion a year. Far less than that given to the banking system. NHS 1 year budget is around £100 Bn.

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Just don't go to Kerala.

Their doctors and nurses are all over here.

I'm sure the NHS, which is a collectivist system required by everyone at some stage in their lives, would manage on a few extra billion a year. Far less than that given to the banking system. NHS 1 year budget is around £100 Bn.

The average hpc poster would happily see their own parents expire in a pool of their own excreta than pay for the health service.

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Cut all the parasites working as pen pushers in the NHS and they will have plenty of money.

Nurses and those doctors that turn up more than a few hours a week need to point the finger themselves because all we get to hear is what the pen pushers are saying.

get em out.

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The average hpc poster would happily see their own parents expire in a pool of their own excreta than pay for the health service.

The problem is that as a country we're NOT paying for it.

We're borrowing money from the future to pay for it, basically making ourselves poorer in the future to have health care we can't afford now.

EVERY BIT of the public sector needs to find savings, and if that means cutbacks, then tough siht. Welcome to the real world...

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Yes we'll see a lot more of this in future I'm afraid. As less and less of us contribute money in taxes, public services must be closed down in order to allow the country to live within its means.

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Interesting the "huge shortfall" is the same net loss as the NHS would suffer if everyone gave up smoking.

Never heard an adequate explanation of what would happen if victory was ever achieved on that issue.

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So, in just 12 years, Gordon has killed the pension system, the banking system, the NHS and the Labour party.

I can see now why he's such an intellectual heavyweight and the best the labour party have got.

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I'm sure the NHS, .. would manage on a few extra billion a year. ... NHS 1 year budget is around £100 Bn.

"Around" meaning £111bn. So only 11% more.

Clearly £11bn is neither here nor there to these medics, so what say we make the budget £11bn less rather than £11bn more? Fine? Great. Nice to see we sorted that so quickly. Just leave the list of pen-pushers for the chop on my desk some time between now and this evening.

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So, in just 12 years, Gordon has killed the pension system, the banking system, the NHS and the Labour party.

I can see now why [1] he's such an intellectual heavyweight and [2] the best the labour party have got.

1 is indeed questionable.

2 is a result of the subset to which you refer.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
"Around" meaning £111bn. So only 11% more.

Clearly £11bn is neither here nor there to these medics, so what say we make the budget £11bn less rather than £11bn more? Fine? Great. Nice to see we sorted that so quickly. Just leave the list of pen-pushers for the chop on my desk some time between now and this evening.

Keep me informed of whether you'd like 6-12 months longer with your cancer or to just get by on some cheap morphine.

Edited by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

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Keep me informed of whether you'd like 6-12 months longer with your cancer or to just get by on some cheap morphine.

Well, if you're buying.......

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Cut all the parasites working as pen pushers in the NHS and they will have plenty of money.

....and a better run NHS.

I'll give one example, which may seem trivial, but which shows how pointless some of the tasks drawn up by "managers" (in this case the PCT) can be.

I work as a locum retail pharmacist in the North West. Recently, every pharmacy was sent out a number of "Customer Satisfaction Surveys" which they were told to hand out to patients collecting prescriptions from the pharmacy. The survey had questions ranginging from "How satisfied with the service from this pharmacy?" to "How satisfied are you with how long you had to wait?" etc etc. It was anonymous and took 5-10 minutes to complete.

The surveys were not popular with patients, so staff would only hand them out to patients they knew would be happy to fill them out. This means patients who had been coming to the pharmacy for years and were already happy with the service they were receiving.

Furthermore, in several of the pharmacies I worked in I posed the following questions. "What would you do if someone, with a face like thunder, filled in a survey and scored the pharmacy on all points?" and "What would you do if you didn't manage to have completed the required number of surveys required by the PCT?"

To question 1, everyone said they would consider destroying the patients survey. To question 2, everyone agreed that they would consider filling in some of the surveys themselves. Some admitted to have already done so.

I haven't seen any results yet, but presumably someone at the PCT is going to collate these surveys and produce a pie chart of customer satisfaction for the area. Presumably, at a later date, we can do the surveys again and compare pie charts to previous pie charts and pat ourselves on our backs if the level of satisfaction goes up, or shake our heads if it goes down ( if some pharmacy breaks rank and actually hands the surveys out to the dissatisfied customers).

As a former pharmacy owner I found the best gauge of customer satisfaction was the number of patients who returned to use the pharmacy each month. The PCT's method is unpopular, onerous and a complete waste of time and money.

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Interesting the "huge shortfall" is the same net loss as the NHS would suffer if everyone gave up smoking.

Never heard an adequate explanation of what would happen if victory was ever achieved on that issue.

The tax revenue would be transferred to some other convenient hate-group, most likely drinkers or fatty food eaters.

It amazes me that anyone still buys tobacco products with UK revenue paid anyway...

Anyway, for as long as I can remember, the NHS has been 'in crisis'. It's never been out of a bloody crisis, just like the London Underground has always been 'close to collapse' and our armed forces have always been 'stretched to breaking point'.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
....and a better run NHS.

I'll give one example, which may seem trivial, but which shows how pointless some of the tasks drawn up by "managers" (in this case the PCT) can be.

I work as a locum retail pharmacist in the North West. Recently, every pharmacy was sent out a number of "Customer Satisfaction Surveys" which they were told to hand out to patients collecting prescriptions from the pharmacy. The survey had questions ranginging from "How satisfied with the service from this pharmacy?" to "How satisfied are you with how long you had to wait?" etc etc. It was anonymous and took 5-10 minutes to complete.

The surveys were not popular with patients, so staff would only hand them out to patients they knew would be happy to fill them out. This means patients who had been coming to the pharmacy for years and were already happy with the service they were receiving.

Furthermore, in several of the pharmacies I worked in I posed the following questions. "What would you do if someone, with a face like thunder, filled in a survey and scored the pharmacy on all points?" and "What would you do if you didn't manage to have completed the required number of surveys required by the PCT?"

To question 1, everyone said they would consider destroying the patients survey. To question 2, everyone agreed that they would consider filling in some of the surveys themselves. Some admitted to have already done so.

I haven't seen any results yet, but presumably someone at the PCT is going to collate these surveys and produce a pie chart of customer satisfaction for the area. Presumably, at a later date, we can do the surveys again and compare pie charts to previous pie charts and pat ourselves on our backs if the level of satisfaction goes up, or shake our heads if it goes down ( if some pharmacy breaks rank and actually hands the surveys out to the dissatisfied customers).

As a former pharmacy owner I found the best gauge of customer satisfaction was the number of patients who returned to use the pharmacy each month. The PCT's method is unpopular, onerous and a complete waste of time and money.

The growth in this sort of shite has been unbelievable.

As are the money targets attached to wasting time on these things.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
The tax revenue would be transferred to some other convenient hate-group, most likely drinkers or fatty food eaters.

It amazes me that anyone still buys tobacco products with UK revenue paid anyway...

Anyway, for as long as I can remember, the NHS has been 'in crisis'. It's never been out of a bloody crisis, just like the London Underground has always been 'close to collapse' and our armed forces have always been 'stretched to breaking point'.

We have a fake money system.

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We have a fake money system.

I think my point was more that 'NHS in crisis' is a journalistic staple. It's been doing the rounds since the service began, esp when prescription charges were brought in in 1951. The problem is that the British have been taught from their mother's knee that Britain is inherently better than, say, the US because we have 'free' healthcare, and Brits assume that any cuts or criticism of it mean we will end up with people dying in the streets or self-operating with rusty tweezers. The fact is there is no perfect healthcare system so there will never be a service that is not, in some way, 'in crisis'.

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