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Nhs 'faces Huge Budget Shortfall'

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
I think my point was more that 'NHS in crisis' is a journalistic staple. It's been doing the rounds since the service began, esp when prescription charges were brought in in 1951. The problem is that the British have been taught from their mother's knee that Britain is inherently better than, say, the US because we have 'free' healthcare, and Brits assume that any cuts or criticism of it mean we will end up with people dying in the streets or self-operating with rusty tweezers. The fact is there is no perfect healthcare system so there will never be a service that is not, in some way, 'in crisis'.

I'd still prefer one where I don't get told that my insurance is invalid to cover something needed.

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I'd still prefer one where I don't get told that my insurance is invalid to cover something needed.

I'd like one where I can get my teeth fixed without having to pay for it on the top of the taxes I've already paid.

I'd like one where, when I go to my GP, he gives me a solution i.e. treatment, rather than his assistant gives me a green invoice (bizarrely called a prescription) accompanied with a sheet of A4 printed off from the internet telling me what her diagnosis is only to have to go back 2 weeks later to have my GP decide she was wrong and give me another green invoice for his diagnosis.

It's a f*cked up system man. Needs scrapping and starting again.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
I'd like one where I can get my teeth fixed without having to pay for it on the top of the taxes I've already paid.

I'd like one where, when I go to my GP, he gives me a solution i.e. treatment, rather than his assistant gives me a green invoice (bizarrely called a prescription) accompanied with a sheet of A4 printed off from the internet telling me what her diagnosis is only to have to go back 2 weeks later to have my GP decide she was wrong and give me another green invoice for his diagnosis.

It's a f*cked up system man. Needs scrapping and starting again.

Agreed on the dentistry, the NHS system really has been run down.

Not a big fan of having nurse practitioners either, but you'll be pleased to know they're cheap.

Nurses generally don't have the same problem solving style, knowledge or background.

That's not to say I don't get people coming back 2 weeks later telling me something hasn't worked, and needing to try something else.

Medicine consists of pattern spotting and fuzzy weighting symptom and sign sets, utilising the vagaries of human expression as the main interface. It's just not very easy.

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My local hospital has the biggest car park operation in the World.

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The NHS is paying Christies (cancer charity) the money it lost in Icelandic banks - it's money put aside for future building projects but won't affect anything they said on the local news last night.

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Agreed on the dentistry, the NHS system really has been run down.

Not a big fan of having nurse practitioners either, but you'll be pleased to know they're cheap.

Nurses generally don't have the same problem solving style, knowledge or background.

That's not to say I don't get people coming back 2 weeks later telling me something hasn't worked, and needing to try something else.

Medicine consists of pattern spotting and fuzzy weighting symptom and sign sets, utilising the vagaries of human expression as the main interface. It's just not very easy.

Cheap? Er, not for me. They're expensive. But yes, I'm sure it's often a bit of trial and error.

It's the string of £8 green invoices for 3 minutes work, the collection of tubes of stuff that get thrown away and the revisits that are the pain. Of course, I'd love to say "I really don't think you're right with this, can I save my £8 and this visit and see your boss now instead please?" But when you can't go anywhere else you know it's probably not a good idea to risk upsetting them. So, you smile, give your thanks, take the hit and go back a few weeks later to pick up another invoice. Shame.

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whatever happened to the system we paid billions of £'s to Fujitsu for ,which I understand was never launched and wasnt the audit commision called in.?..and then I heard nothing more , must have missed it.

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Medicine consists of pattern spotting and fuzzy weighting symptom and sign sets, utilising the vagaries of human expression as the main interface. It's just not very easy.

You'd be surprised. Back in the 80s some IT geeks wrote an expert system to diagnose some terrible ailment, cancer of some sort I think, to assist in screening.

The expert system performed considerably better than a human consultant managed.

However for legal reasons (no consultant to sue if he gets it wrong) and professional reasons (the AMA would rather make out that their top docs were gods rather than purveyors of automatable rote learning), the system was never used, even though it gave better results.

Quality of service to the patient evidently wasn't top of their list of priorities.

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You'd be surprised. Back in the 80s some IT geeks wrote an expert system to diagnose some terrible ailment, cancer of some sort I think, to assist in screening.

The expert system performed considerably better than a human consultant managed.

However for legal reasons (no consultant to sue if he gets it wrong) and professional reasons (the AMA would rather make out that their top docs were gods rather than purveyors of automatable rote learning), the system was never used, even though it gave better results.

Quality of service to the patient evidently wasn't top of their list of priorities.

If something can be learned, it can be programmed. otherwise, we could do nothing at all.

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Interesting the "huge shortfall" is the same net loss as the NHS would suffer if everyone gave up smoking.

Never heard an adequate explanation of what would happen if victory was ever achieved on that issue.

Well, if they ever decide smokers no longer qualify for NHS treatment, it will be interesting to hear an arguments as to why smokers should continue to pay for the nhs in their taxes (all their taxes, not just to portion on cigarettes). In fact, i would have thought all smokers would be owed a massive tax refund.

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Well, if they ever decide smokers no longer qualify for NHS treatment, it will be interesting to hear an arguments as to why smokers should continue to pay for the nhs in their taxes (all their taxes, not just to portion on cigarettes). In fact, i would have thought all smokers would be owed a massive tax refund.

Indeed. Smokers cost the government 5 billion in NHS costs. Smokers pay the government 13 billion in cigarette taxes.

Move along, nothing to see here.

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The health service will face the most severe and sustained financial shortfall in its history after 2011, a report by NHS managers warns

LOL.

And in other news, a report by Turkeys suggested abolishing Christmas.

The Tories are coming. Get used to a decade or more of decreasing (in real terms) public spending. :lol:

And about goddamn time too.

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Well, if they ever decide smokers no longer qualify for NHS treatment, it will be interesting to hear an arguments as to why smokers should continue to pay for the nhs in their taxes (all their taxes, not just to portion on cigarettes). In fact, i would have thought all smokers would be owed a massive tax refund.

Indeed. Why can't all these top medical scientists we pay for invent some incredibly addictive smokeable substance that nevertheless has enormous health benefits?

It would be a win-win - high tax revenues and a healthy population.

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I'd still prefer one where I don't get told that my insurance is invalid to cover something needed.

How very true. I am way behind the times with post dvd rentals, have about 74 to view backing up at cinemaparidisso.

I just got the 2007 Micheal Moor film "Sicko" this week and watched it twice yesterday. I was appalled at the US healthcare system. Even those with healthcare run a lottery with the HMO always seeking ways to deny payment to boost profits for CEO's and shareholders.

Can you imagine being middle class all your life, being prudent, paying up the mortgage and credit card bills, raising a family and doing it all proper, then to get something like Cancer and having your health insurance cancel the policy you have been paying for 20 years becasue they find out you have chicken pox as a child and forgot to put it on the form.

Shit like this happens in the US and it seems their medical costs are horrendous. You will be bankrupt in a few years after working all your life to have a nice retirement.

Sod that. I dont miss the 11% I pay in NI over my working life and feel very lucky to have the NHS even though I haven't used it too much. Did have a MRI once for slipped disc after a months wait.

But..........better to wait and get treated eventually than to never get treated at all because you either have no HI or you HI finds a way to not pay out. The US system frightens me.

M

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Agreed.

If you want to save 20 billion at a stroke start looking at the drinkers .....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3121440.stm

Except that drinkers pay 26 billion in drink taxes...... ;)

And that report states the cost to the NHS form drinkers is only 1.7 billion. The other 18.7 billion includes such intangible non-jobber fodder as cost to employers from hangovers.... :rolleyes: ... and, amazingly, even categories such as businesses having to install burgler alarms on their premises. Imagine that. If drinking was reduced, all robbery would cease immediately. :rolleyes:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Budget shortfall

:lol: that's a new one

We had a 'budget shortfall' and a third of the office got made redundant.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
You'd be surprised. Back in the 80s some IT geeks wrote an expert system to diagnose some terrible ailment, cancer of some sort I think, to assist in screening.

The expert system performed considerably better than a human consultant managed.

However for legal reasons (no consultant to sue if he gets it wrong) and professional reasons (the AMA would rather make out that their top docs were gods rather than purveyors of automatable rote learning), the system was never used, even though it gave better results.

Quality of service to the patient evidently wasn't top of their list of priorities.

Got any details?

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Got any details?

sure, its on NHS direct. Sore throat is the most common random diagnosis, followed by swine fever and workitis.

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Except that drinkers pay 26 billion in drink taxes...... ;)

And that report states the cost to the NHS form drinkers is only 1.7 billion. The other 18.7 billion includes such intangible non-jobber fodder as cost to employers from hangovers.... :rolleyes: ... and, amazingly, even categories such as businesses having to install burgler alarms on their premises. Imagine that. If drinking was reduced, all robbery would cease immediately. :rolleyes:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Spot on, what a terrible article that is.

Those studies always come up with mythical costs to business of sick days, what about the number of people who manage to get themselves into work in a job they hate just because they were able to blow off a bit of steam the night before down the pub, or the number of lives saved by employees letting off steam over a pint lunchtime and thus letting their cretinous manager live another day.

All those annual "cost to business of sick days" articles are is a massive attempt at guilt-ing everone ino 100% attendance and giving the office creep his "never had a sick day" rants.

Sick days are critical to people performing at a decent rate in a lot of jobs

Edited by pete.hpc

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