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Patfig

Can Labour Do A John Major?

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Guest KingCharles1st
If the Gordinator is destroyed this week can Labour make a comeback from the bottom of bottomsville?

I'm more intersted in Mrs Flint running the HB Party- (thats the Hate Brown party- in case anyone was thinking I meant Horny Bitch party. :rolleyes:

Theres hardly anyone left though now.. maybe a milliband?

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I can't see how to be honest.

The only hope Labour would have would be for any new successor to destroy Brown politically for incompetence. But that's just not done. Even then it would possible be an impossible task.

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I can't see how to be honest.

The only hope Labour would have would be for any new successor to destroy Brown politically for incompetence. But that's just not done. Even then it would possible be an impossible task.

I agree, but Major won agaisnt the odds. I think Labour may well wake up this week and realise what they need to do, in any case it will be an interesting week. I expect Brown to be UB40 this week.

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I agree, but Major won agaisnt the odds. I think Labour may well wake up this week and realise what they need to do, in any case it will be an interesting week. I expect Brown to be UB40 this week.

It depends on how spineless Labour MP's are, 20% was mentioned as the trigger to oust him, Brown managed to get 15%. Labour under Brown are in meltdown but have any of them really got any guts, if any Ministers resign this week he'll be finished.

Major had a tough job but he was helped by an inept opposition led by Neil Kinnock, I wouldn't put Cameron in the same league as Kinnock.

The expenses row has killed off Brown.

I'm still not convinced that Brown will be gone by the end of the week, although I hope to god he is. Although he'll probably end up at the IMF so I hope who ever does take over finishes him off politically.

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It depends on how spineless Labour MP's are, 20% was mentioned as the trigger to oust him, Brown managed to get 15%. Labour under Brown are in meltdown but have any of them really got any guts, if any Ministers resign this week he'll be finished.

Major had a tough job but he was helped by an inept opposition led by Neil Kinnock, I wouldn't put Cameron in the same league as Kinnock.

The expenses row has killed off Brown.

I'm still not convinced that Brown will be gone by the end of the week, although I hope to god he is. Although he'll probably end up at the IMF so I hope who ever does take over finishes him off politically.

Fascinating the coming week will be for many different reasons.

There is a real opportunity for someone to step up to the plate and try and deliver something for the Labour party. Who has the balls ( not Ed) to do it? Cameron has rested back and done SFA to push the Tories further forward as he hasnt needed to, and this shows a weakness IMO. Labour still have a chance ( very slim) to regain some ground but they first have to get rid of El Twatto.

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Fascinating the coming week will be for many different reasons.

There is a real opportunity for someone to step up to the plate and try and deliver something for the Labour party. Who has the balls ( not Ed) to do it? Cameron has rested back and done SFA to push the Tories further forward as he hasnt needed to, and this shows a weakness IMO. Labour still have a chance ( very slim) to regain some ground but they first have to get rid of El Twatto.

Agreed that the have to get rid of the delusional nutter in No10 to stand any chance. If Brown's enemies can't capitalise on this and oust him then Labour really do have no chance.

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Agreed that the have to get rid of the delusional nutter in No10 to stand any chance. If Brown's enemies can't capitalise on this and oust him then Labour really do have no chance.

Agreed

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I think labour are in an entirely different position to the tories under john major.... brown doesn't have the guts major showed, and labour do not have a replacement for brown... in any event the situations entirely different and not one I think labour can retrieve.

With the crowded middle ground in politics, the death of Labours key raison d'etre and the rise of smaller single interest parties and the left ward leaning lib dems I really don't see much space for labour.... this could be a key moment of change when Labour goes into the wilderness for far longer than a generation.... serves them right though.. yet again a labour government has brought the country to its knees financially.

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA

When you run a pub you dont have men in their 50's behind the bar to attract the punters , you have horney birds.

Step forward Caroline Flint and her team of nubiles. Imagine if she was PM and got Nigella Lawson in as chancellor. Imagine what they could achieve.

No more flicking through the Kays catalogue for the kids, it would be mum can we watch the party political broadcast.

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I agree, but Major won agaisnt the odds. I think Labour may well wake up this week and realise what they need to do, in any case it will be an interesting week. I expect Brown to be UB40 this week.

Major won against the odds, but there were some notable differences between then and now.

Major was defending a much, much larger majority than Labour will be this time around, both in terms of seats and the share of the vote.

Also, on the face of it the Thatcher to Major leadership change was a damn sight cleaner than this one. It was clear at the time there were candidates in the Tory party that wanted to lead it (I was only a teenager at the time, but that seemed pretty obvious from the news), whereas Labour look like they've got no idea of how to get rid of Brown, and even less of an idea as to who'll be on the list to replace him. Of course this could change, but it would take Brown to step aside gracefully and quickly, and given this track record fulfilling both criteria would appear to be unlikely.

It's also probably worth adding in that whilst the Tories don't seem to have the momentum behind them that Labour did for '97, they're looking a damn sight more electable than Kinnock's Labour did '92.

We shall see.

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Kinnock lost it at the last hurdle with a show of triumphalism, based on the poll results, on the morning of election day. It was almost surreal to watch him singing, in happy clappy style "were going to win" on Sky News that morning. The voting public took one look and said, in unison, "Oh my God".

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It depends on how spineless Labour MP's are, 20% was mentioned as the trigger to oust him, Brown managed to get 15%. Labour under Brown are in meltdown but have any of them really got any guts, if any Ministers resign this week he'll be finished.

Major had a tough job but he was helped by an inept opposition led by Neil Kinnock, I wouldn't put Cameron in the same league as Kinnock.

The expenses row has killed off Brown.

I'm still not convinced that Brown will be gone by the end of the week, although I hope to god he is. Although he'll probably end up at the IMF so I hope who ever does take over finishes him off politically.

But would you put Cameron in the same league as Blair? Whatever opinions are now of the erstwhile PM at the time he swept virtually all before him.If Blair was to re-emerge now I think he would still beat Cameron.Most of the Labour defectors I know jumped ship because of Brown.

As for the Toryphoria,they got 29% and won one extra seat in the EU elections.The rise of UKIP is a double edged sword.There is a lot of chicken counting going on and they have yet to hatch.Osborn was particularly unimpressive this morning with the row with John Humphrey (equally to blame) descending into a farcical squabble.

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Step forward Caroline Flint and her team of nubiles. Imagine if she was PM and got Nigella Lawson in as chancellor.

Throw in Keeley Hawes as Home Secretary, and even I would vote Labour. :rolleyes:

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The rise of UKIP is a double edged sword.

In a general election, will UKIP still attract the vote? I would say no. Our first past the post system with small constituencies means that they are unlikely to get seats, so voting them will be largely pointless. Now, who does a UKIPer vote for if not UKIP? The next best option is Tory (at least on the sceptic side). So in a GE, take the UKIP vote and give to Dave.

Even if their vote holds, the destruction of labour is enough to get them out. In our system, if a load of small parties get one vote each and the Tories get 2, then the Tories win. As long as the Tories can beat Labour across the patch, they will get enough MPs.

To get an idea, take the Euro regions. If you applied the "first past the post" system, you'd get 10 Tories, 1 Labour. Only "benefits central", the North East would have a labour MP.

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Kinnock lost it at the last hurdle with a show of triumphalism, based on the poll results, on the morning of election day. It was almost surreal to watch him singing, in happy clappy style "were going to win" on Sky News that morning. The voting public took one look and said, in unison, "Oh my God".

Absolutely right. The public took one last look at Kinnock and especially at his European policies and decided they really didn't like what they saw. Aint gonna happen with Call Me Dave.

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But would you put Cameron in the same league as Blair? Whatever opinions are now of the erstwhile PM at the time he swept virtually all before him.If Blair was to re-emerge now I think he would still beat Cameron.Most of the Labour defectors I know jumped ship because of Brown.

As for the Toryphoria,they got 29% and won one extra seat in the EU elections.The rise of UKIP is a double edged sword.There is a lot of chicken counting going on and they have yet to hatch.Osborn was particularly unimpressive this morning with the row with John Humphrey (equally to blame) descending into a farcical squabble.

I really hope Cameron isn't in the same league as Blair... surely no one could be that odious, scheming, lying, etc etc... Blair was a fake, you could see it from his smile from day one.... he is as much if not more to blame than gordon for the current state of the nation.... I couldn't find one thing to say I thought Blair had done well..... and his errors are myriad... we deserve better than Blair.

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Alan Johnson

The fact is David Cameron is not popular with the masses. Skint, disillusioned, marginalised and persecuted by PC the average Brit is not in the mood for a silver spooned Toff to tell them spending cuts and tax rises are good for them. Cameron's only strength is that Brown is a truly abhorrent human being, an unelected mad socialist dictator.

Ignoring his past, Johnson is an orator, a good looking man and has wide appeal.

Let's hope to God Labour don't for once make a sensible decision.

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I really hope Cameron isn't in the same league as Blair... surely no one could be that odious, scheming, lying, etc etc... Blair was a fake, you could see it from his smile from day one.... he is as much if not more to blame than gordon for the current state of the nation.... I couldn't find one thing to say I thought Blair had done well..... and his errors are myriad... we deserve better than Blair.

You miss the point though.What Blair was as a politician is irrelevant.At the beginning of the celebrity age he saw the need for a creation that would surf the wave of the first media fed generation.The same people who wept in public because of the death of a woman they knew only through the pages of some crappy magazine they read under the dryerin the hair salon.

In many ways I am a conservative (although not a Tory) Cameron might be able to capture some of it,or he may have missed the wave.

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Alan Johnson

Agree.

Labour need someone to knife Brown in the front to allow Johnson to step in. The knife wielder is a sacrifice and thats the problem - all the would be stabbers think they have a chance of leading Labour. This means no one of sufficient clout will do him.

He should have gone by now - he has a Rasputin like ability to shrug off would be assassination. If only his economic policies were as resilient ha ha ha.

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But would you put Cameron in the same league as Blair? Whatever opinions are now of the erstwhile PM at the time he swept virtually all before him.If Blair was to re-emerge now I think he would still beat Cameron.Most of the Labour defectors I know jumped ship because of Brown.

Some revisionism there... Cameron was already ahead of Blair in the polls when Blair left and indeed this was one of the main arguments put forward by Brownites for why Blair should stand down.

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