Guys- Just Wanted To Say A Big Thanks For Ruining Any Pleasure Of Reading About The Eu Election Results-

[Guest KingCharles1st]

When this is all over Charlie, will you tell me who your avatar is?

Might...might not

[Patfig]

Might...might not

Tease

[Bardon]

There ought to be limits to freedom - GW Bush

[rxe]

It is all about "disenfranchisement", if that is a proper word.

People are starting to feel powerless: "they" impose rules on loads of aspects of our everyday lives, and there appears to be no way to stop it. If you are a reasonable person, you'll probably vote UKIP or Green in protest. If you are really threatened by the economic situation (you have no job, your family has no jobs etc), then you'd be receptive to the BNP message.

"Blame the foreigner" has been a successful route to power for dictators over the years. It is a story with an element of truth in it (it is a fact that hard working poles etc are taking jobs off rather less hard working brits), and no party is willing to talk about it. Hence you get the BNP.

[jonb]

Can I ask have the BNP got seats via actually getting more votes at the ballot box or because the same number voted for them as last time, but because the turnout was so low there % increased.

Not found any hard stats on this yet, just % which currently are meaningless.

They got less votes than last time, but votes for other parties fell by even more.

[redgenieuk]

But the BNP are a legal political party who have just won two seats in the European parliament. Are you suggesting that the (unpaid, volunteer) moderators go through every thread and remove any reference to the BNP? If so, why not do so with any other party that they personally dislike? NuLabour perhaps, or the Conservatives.

I just heard Griffin saying that this will be the end of Brown as the upper echelon of the Labour will get rid of him for letting this happen on his watch, so perhaps some good will come out of it.

Frankly I would love to have the time to do it.

If Only.

[grumpy-old-man-returns]

Firstly - mods are volunteers who give up their free time to try and keep excesses of spam and abuse off this site. We cannot stop legal parties from posting but have to decide whether they are off topic or on topic, abusive or not, and keeping to the forum rules.

When the June 4 thread on the Euro election became racist I stepped in and stopped it

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...t&p=1931643.

However it is more difficult when posters are discussing an event like BNP winning MEP seats - there are bound to be inflamed feelings on both sides.

In the event last night I removed several posts that were reported by someone who knew that if you click the "report" button then a mod responds as soon as possible. Did you click the report button for abusive posts before you started this thread?

With regard to merging. We have had numerous complaints by posters that too many threads on the same subject are being started and the only fair way to control this is to merge threads.

Mods are here to make life as pleasant as possible for the maximum number of posters. It is at times a thankless task - some people view their "pet" thread as the most important one on HPC and complain vociferously when it is moved to the appropriate forum. It is a tribute to the openness of the moderation policy on here that threads like this are not deleted but only moved to the appropriate section in due course.

good post doccyboy.

[grumpy-old-man-returns]

There ought to be limits to freedom - GW Bush

fook me, never heard him say that one Bardon.

Says it all really.

[Guest KingCharles1st]

It is all about "disenfranchisement", if that is a proper word.

People are starting to feel powerless: "they" impose rules on loads of aspects of our everyday lives, and there appears to be no way to stop it. If you are a reasonable person, you'll probably vote UKIP or Green in protest. If you are really threatened by the economic situation (you have no job, your family has no jobs etc), then you'd be receptive to the BNP message.

"Blame the foreigner" has been a successful route to power for dictators over the years. It is a story with an element of truth in it (it is a fact that hard working poles etc are taking jobs off rather less hard working brits), and no party is willing to talk about it. Hence you get the BNP.

Couldn't agree more. I thought the whole denial of the existence of UKIP throughout the election build up was very telling.

UKIP did not really get more of the vote- +.5% according to the BBC, yet Labour lost so heavily that UKIP beat them down to third.

UKIP ARE in a position to do something USEFUL - maybe it is now that the Tory/UKIP border is the new central ground for UK politics?

If UKIP were to now start pressing hard, I wonder if the Tories would actually promise us a referendum on Europe as a manifesto pledge coming up the next UK General election? The Tories currently slate labour for their U turns on the issue, but I dont yet see a set in stone promise from them that they will deliver one.

[Patfig]

Two mods on the same post

[Guest KingCharles1st]

Two mods on the same post

Pat you are chirpy today, were you at the Trill this morning?

[woody37]

Yeah, this democracy thing is terrible, it needs stamping out immediately.

The Government should ban all other political views and beliefs and crush the freedom to vote. One candidate elections it is then.

I didn't vote BNP, but have no problem with those who did. It's called freedom of choice.

Nick Griffin impressed on 5Live this morning. He asked Nicky Campbell if he could talk about the other 90% of his manifesto rather than just 'Race'. "Such as" said Campbell? "Golbal Warming" said Griffin "the fact it is a fabrication, a con to allow Governments to tax and control the public some more"

Yay, wish I had voted BNP now.

[Patfig]

Pat you are chirpy today, were you at the Trill this morning?

Yes I feel chirpy, had a go at the cuttlefish for breakfast today

[Patfig]

Yeah, this democracy thing is terrible, it needs stamping out immediately.

The Government should ban all other political views and beliefs and crush the freedom to vote. One candidate elections it is then.

I didn't vote BNP, but have no problem with those who did. It's called freedom of choice.

Nick Griffin impressed on 5Live this morning. He asked Nicky Campbell if he could talk about the other 90% of his manifesto rather than just 'Race'. "Such as" said Campbell? "Golbal Warming" said Griffin "the fact it is a fabrication, a con to allow Governments to tax and control the public some more"

Yay, wish I had voted BNP now.

I missed that. I am not a BNP fan but there will be some serious milking by BNP going on and rightly so.

[Justice]

THANK YOU SO MUCH- NOT

Mods, can you put a kerb on this garbage please

So you start a thread slaging the BNP and then want to run off.

Most BNP related threads are in the off topic section and on the main section a lot less is said about the BNP when compared to the con's or zen-labour and given a lot of people are voting BNP makes what you say un democratic.

Take it your the type of person that likes democracy so long as everyone thinks the same way as you but feel free to vote for the 3 main parties that are realy just fragments of an un fair system that is ripping people off if you must but i'm voting for british jobs for british people.

[flatnose]

What are you driving at?

[Injin]

The BNP lot amuse me no end "I am being growled at by an angry dog - I wonder if this pack of half starved wolves will protect me?"

[Guest KingCharles1st]

So you start a thread slaging the BNP and then want to run off.

Most BNP related threads are in the off topic section and on the main section a lot less is said about the BNP when compared to the con's or zen-labour and given a lot of people are voting BNP makes what you say un democratic.

Not at all- I merely stated I am totally fed up with the name calling and mud slinging thatall threads (as this seems about to) fall into once the pro/anti BNPers get going. And that becasue of this, the site has become far less of a healthy place to visit.

Take it your the type of person that likes democracy so long as everyone thinks the same way as you but feel free to vote for the 3 main parties that are realy just fragments of an un fair system that is ripping people off if you must but i'm voting for british jobs for british people.

errrrrr... you couldnt be more wrong

Excuse me.........

[anonguest]

Well, if it was a choice between a bnp government next or a labour government next, i would be prepared to chance bnp for a term. that is how awful this government has become.

And that is why the mainstream parties (especially Labour) will continue in their "we know whats best for you" attitude to politics, precisley because they believe that will never happen - and that these sorts of 'freak' voter actions wont be replicated in the only election they think really matters, the general election .........until of course they do!

I have spoken to many party political activists and MPs over time, across the spectrum, and as stated above, they simply "do not get it!". They do not grasp the concept that they get voted out because the great unwashed masses (i.e citizenry) just plain dont agree with their worldview and how the world should be run. It is also in large part because, mostly, they do not have a 'Plan B' or the simple ability to consider/think of alternative approaches to socio-economic issues, i.e what do we do if A doesnt work?. They just keep pushing on with the same failed experiments, believing that A did not work because they somehow did not implement it properly - or worse, that they failed to sufficiently convince the public of its merits.

To the modern labour politician none of their ideas is bad, it is just that the public dont understand them.

They cannot grasp the concept that IF an idea is broadly thought of as good, then the public wont need endless brainwashing to be made to think it is good - the idea will sell itself.

They believe ID cards are a good idea- the public does not.

They believe a war is necessary - the public does not.

The list is almost endless.

In each case we need to be educated as to why they are good for us.

At the same time they patronise us with soundbites, telling us humbly how "we need to listen more to the public", with no intention of doing any such thing. Everytime a party suffers a bad result we get told that they are "going to listen" to what we have to say - and they really believe that we are stupid enough to fall for this simplistic brush off.

The end result of practising politics in this manner is that, over time, you end up disenfranchising vast swathes of the public - and people will walk over to listen to whoever claims to be on your side and understand your problems.

[stormymonday_2011]

Can I ask have the BNP got seats via actually getting more votes at the ballot box or because the same number voted for them as last time, but because the turnout was so low there % increased.

Not found any hard stats on this yet, just % which currently are meaningless.

Well in pure percentage terms the Labour vote fell most in Wales and the North East, areas with high numbers of white working class voters but relatively small immigrant populations. The BNP did not garner any seats in those areas. This suggest to me that Labour core vote just stayed at home rather than switching parties. It is possible that they will return to Labour if the party ever remembers who it was set up to represent in the first place. Instead I expect the left will just respond by cranking up the anti-BNP rhetoric but actually do nothing to address the underlying issues. This is going to leave quite a large unrepresented portion of the electorate which is where the BNP may find some real opportunities once we get a Tory government. It is by no means a given fact that these white working class votes will ever return to the Labour party while it continues to follow its existing policies on globalisation, the economy, housing, immigration etc. The wipe out of Labour councilors was so bad in the local county elections that they may struggle to recover. The party is down to just 178 councillors in the shires compared to the Liberal Democrats 484 (and the Liberal democrats hardly had a great night). Without this base of local politicians it is very hard to mount an effective national campaign come a General Election.

[Ruffneck]

i think alot of them have been brainwashed by the media

it's a hatchet job on the BNP , but their popularity keeps increasing because more and more people want Britain back!

[rxe]

I have spoken to many party political activists and MPs over time, across the spectrum, and as stated above, they simply "do not get it!". They do not grasp the concept that they get voted out because the great unwashed masses (i.e citizenry) just plain dont agree with their worldview and how the world should be run. It is also in large part because, mostly, they do not have a 'Plan B' or the simple ability to consider/think of alternative approaches to socio-economic issues, i.e what do we do if A doesnt work?. They just keep pushing on with the same failed experiments, believing that A did not work because they somehow did not implement it properly - or worse, that they failed to sufficiently convince the public of its merits.

Both the BNP and UKIP have the advantage of not being in power, or remotely close to power. There is a chunk of the population who want (pick any that apply):

- A return to 50s style employment

- no ID cards

- no CCTV cameras shoved in your face

- cheap foreign holidays

- fewer foreigners taking their jobs

- a house to live in, preferably cheap

- a car to drive, without paying lots of tax

- cheap petrol

No mainstream party offers this - for obvious reasons. When they are asked for these things, they get evasive, because they know they can't deliver. The BNP and it's ilk can offer this sort of stuff because it is not challenged. They are at their weakest when interviewed - Nick Griffin was woefully bad when asked hard questions. Avoiding the challenge of the BNP is a disaster, the mainstream process needs to engage with them and shine a light on the weakness of their arguments. Then people will think it through: if I vote for the BNP, then we get rid of the poles who nicked my job, but nice (hardworking, salt of the earth etc etc) Mr Singh from the corner shop will also get deported. Hmmmm.

The real problem facing politics is that the next decade is going to be tough. We have a lot of debt to pay back, and no obvious ways of doing it. Energy is going to be expensive - we are going to get austerity, whether we vote for it or not. Extremists do well in austerity - just read the history of Germany in the 30s.

[stormymonday_2011]

And that is why the mainstream parties (especially Labour) will continue in their "we know whats best for you" attitude to politics, precisley because they believe that will never happen - and that these sorts of 'freak' voter actions wont be replicated in the only election they think really matters, the general election .........until of course they do!

I have spoken to many party political activists and MPs over time, across the spectrum, and as stated above, they simply "do not get it!". They do not grasp the concept that they get voted out because the great unwashed masses (i.e citizenry) just plain dont agree with their worldview and how the world should be run. It is also in large part because, mostly, they do not have a 'Plan B' or the simple ability to consider/think of alternative approaches to socio-economic issues, i.e what do we do if A doesnt work?. They just keep pushing on with the same failed experiments, believing that A did not work because they somehow did not implement it properly - or worse, that they failed to sufficiently convince the public of its merits.

To the modern labour politician none of their ideas is bad, it is just that the public dont understand them.

They cannot grasp the concept that IF an idea is broadly thought of as good, then the public wont need endless brainwashing to be made to think it is good - the idea will sell itself.

They believe ID cards are a good idea- the public does not.

They believe a war is necessary - the public does not.

The list is almost endless.

In each case we need to be educated as to why they are good for us.

At the same time they patronise us with soundbites, telling us humbly how "we need to listen more to the public", with no intention of doing any such thing. Everytime a party suffers a bad result we get told that they are "going to listen" to what we have to say - and they really believe that we are stupid enough to fall for this simplistic brush off.

The end result of practising politics in this manner is that, over time, you end up disenfranchising vast swathes of the public - and people will walk over to listen to whoever claims to be on your side and understand your problems.

Great, great post.

So true and the last sentence chimes in exactly with my own thoughts.

If the BNP triumph it will be down to the fact that the other parties have actively paved their way to power by their insane policies.

[stormymonday_2011]

Dupe

[salamander]

The electors of Millwall did not back a postmodernist rightist party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate.

Nick Griffin, 1993 local elections

I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades. I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."

Nick Griffin (editor), The Rune, 1996

There is no doubt that hundreds, probably thousands of Jews were shot to death in Eastern Europe, because they were rightly or wrongly seen as communists or potential partisan supporters. That was awful. But this nonsense about gas chambers is exposed as a total lie.

Nick Griffin, during Cook Report documentary, 1997

The TV footage of dozens of 'gay' demonstrators flaunting their perversions in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive.

Nick Griffin on the bombing of the Admiral Duncan pub, 1999

Wonder why he doesn't say stuff like that in public any more.

Edit: Mods - time to move this to where it belongs in off-topic ?