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bogbrush

You Can Only Con A Greedy Man

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I can show you a factual basis for ownership, it's really easy.

Please.

...and don't say 'because I produced it yadda yadda'

because that means the leaky roof owns the puddle.

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Please.

...and don't say 'because I produced it yadda yadda'

because that means the leaky roof owns the puddle.

Because I produced it. :)

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I contract with you to give Dave 5 gold pieces.

You go to Dave and offer him a bucket of fisheads instead of the gold.

Dave accepts.

I now owe you nothing. You haven't done what we contracted to do. To make you whole if there is a problem, you only need a bucket of fishheads, not gold.

Banks work like the above, but after giving fisheads they want and insist upon gold.

This is so confused, it is hard to make what parrallels you are drawing

This is probably more realistic

You contract me to give dave 5 gold pieces

I give dave the means to buy his own 5 gold pieces

The only outstanding issue is dave's costs in aquiring the gold

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Because I produced it. :)

A fantasy.

The leaky roof owning the puddle.

Try again but this time not using your beliefs on what you did or didn't do.

Edited by Alan B'Stard MP

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A fantasy.

The leaky roof owning the puddle.

Try again but this time not using your beliefs on what you did or didn't do.

Rooves don't have the capacity for ownership.

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Rooves don't have the capacity for ownership.

And neither do you.

You only believe you do.

How does someone walking into a room in the house in which you live - know that you own the stuff there. What FACT makes it so.

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Yes it is; if there were no difference no discernment could be made

No, your discernment was about me versus someone else.

I hold a piece of paper and you say it's worthless.

I hand the same piece of paper to Mervyn king and suddenly it's all valuable.

Paper remains the same - therefore this is some kind of hypnotic effect or just general poor thinking on your part, not connected with the thkng itself.

Where does this come from i wonder?

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And neither do you.

You only believe you do.

How does someone walking into a room in the house in which you live - know that you own the stuff there. What FACT makes it so.

The facts of history, my trading working etc to get this stuff.

if you ain't got the history, you ain;t got a right to the stuff.

Easy.

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No, your discernment was about me versus someone else.

I hold a piece of paper and you say it's worthless.

I hand the same piece of paper to Mervyn king and suddenly it's all valuable.

No..an injin note would still be worthless if mervyn king held it

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No..an injin note would still be worthless if mervyn king held it

No, mervyn kings notes are still worthless if I hold them.

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No, mervyn kings notes are still worthless if I hold them.

Err no

If that were a fact you believed you would happily treat both equally in trade

You wont

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Err no

If that were a fact you believed you would happily treat both equally in trade

You wont

I do.

I have.

Why wouldn't I?

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I do.

I have.

Why wouldn't I?

Fine print up some injin notes

Send them to me for postage and inconvenience / printing costs (because they are worthless)

Then trade me back one of my injin notes for (say) £100,000 of mervyn money

Deal?

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Fine print up some injin notes

Send them to me for postage and inconvenience / printing costs (because they are worthless)

Then trade me back one of my injin notes for (say) £100,000 of mervyn money

Deal?

Sure.

£100,000

There you go.

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That's not mervyn money

Like i said, all mouth and no trousers

That is mervyn money - which is the whole point of this discussion.

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It's quite interesting that gold was used as an analogy. The value of gold is a perception. Someone, many thousands of years ago, decided that gold was pretty, didn't corrode and would be good to trade with. Had they liked something else better, then we might be looking at the UKs quartzite reserves, for example, rather than the gold reserves. It's purely a perception of value.

These days you get a piece of paper with some coloured printing on and get told that it has a 'value' of £10. You could just as easily get given a pretty shell in your wage packet, as long as enough people perceived its value as being £10.

We perceive that value of our scruffy bits of paper because someone in an office in London has told us what it's valued at. It is a belief held accross the country. The paper doesn't constitute money in itself, merely a belief in it. That's where it can all come unravelled. When we stop believing in the paper in our wallets, it becomes worthless and you might as well use it to light a fire. Just look at Zimbabwe (already mentioned here). There is no-longer a belief in the value of the money. They trade in dollars now.

The belief in the bits of paper is the important part of any transaction. If a shopkeeper doesn't believe that a note is real, then they won't accept it. A cheque is also a matter of belief. It's a twenty-seven pound note in effect. The shopkeeper has to believe that you have £27 in your account to take your cheque. The bank doesn't then send over a courrier with £27 to the shop. Instead, a man with a pencil (or computer these days) simply crosses £27 from one account and puts it into the other. The money was never real, just a belief in it.

The men in the offices are now hoping that by printing more scruffy bits of paper, we'll still all believe that the brownish one has a value of £10. Where did the 'real' money come from to make these new bits of paper? There isn't any. It's made up money. But because the men in the offices do it, it's not fraud. If you were to print a new tenner for yourself, you'd be comitting fraud. Why is it wrong for a family in overty to print themselves out of poverty, but the bank is allowed to? But that's a different question altogether.

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That is mervyn money - which is the whole point of this discussion.

If your premises lead you to that conclusion, then may I invite you to take another look at your premises

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That is mervyn money - which is the whole point of this discussion.

If it is mervyn money, you would happily exchange mervyn notes for it at a 5% discount..yes?

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If it is mervyn money, you would happily exchange mervyn notes for it at a 5% discount..yes?

Ye sure, why wouldn't I?

it's not like the supply is limited or anything.

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Ye sure, why wouldn't I?

it's not like the supply is limited or anything.

If you feel you can post me physical mervyn notes (5% discounted) while I type numbers into this thread, who am i to argue?

My first number is

£500,000

Oh hold on..

£450,000

A total of £950,000 in sterling notes

Is that a deal?

Edit to add - i forgot the 5% discount £950000 - £47500 = £902500

Edited by Stars

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Involving what?

You want a real state of affairs between peopel without anything real involved.

Do behave.

Indeed.

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be;

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

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