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Marcos Scriven

Exchanged Contracts On Sale Of My Single Btl Yesterday - Phew!

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You'd do well to learn how to spell, Gonzo.

I was more interested in the hyperinflationary angle of his sig.. I thought it was only bears that came in the TFH variety!

Edit to add: Marcos, no idea if you have done the right thing or not.. good luck anyway, hope it all works out for you.

Edited by libspero

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Well, more 'Keep' To Let than Buy To Let, as I lived there for three years, and rented it out the past five.

Sigh of relief - I've seen the recent stories of a suposed 'recovery' lately, but I think there's quite a way to go. Think I've been very lucky indeed getting out of it.

Only reason I kept it until now is I remortgaged it to help buy a new flat back in mid '07 (how dumb do I feel now). That locked me into a two year deal with a 20k ERC. But since Mortgage Express (Bradford & Bingley) went bust, they offered to waive the ERC between Feb and June. This tied in nicely with the end of the current tenancy.

Even more stupidly, I did consider selling it at the time I bought my new flat, and was even offered £350k. It exchanged yesterday for £312,500. It was on the market for 6 weeks, but got VERY lucky when the agent found a Euro cash buyer - little London pad for one of their kids for uni I think. I think 11% off peak is fortunate - I only had two other offers from 20 or so viewings, both at £290.

I bought for £190,000 back in 2001, so I can't complain too much. Shame that all that 'profit', and more, has effectively been swallowed up by the drop in my new flat. I reckon it's 'worth' around £470k at the moment, down from £535k, based on recent sales (there's a lot of readily comparable maisonettes on the same street). I would expect it to bottom out around the �350k mark.

Anyway - a little bit of anecdotal material for you.

Marcos

I think 11% off peak is fortunate for the buyer not you. In fact it's quite a bullish post. If you put your flat up for sale 6 weeks ago and had 20 viewings before it went to contract with other offers 17% off peak, then id say thats shows a very active market.

I think you are looking for reassurance that you did the right thing, unfortunately your not going to get it from this bunch of rent boys on here. You only need to mention BTL (lived in it or not) Flats, green shoots (20 viewings) and property 'profit' and you'll effectively be thrown into the troll camp, usually accompanied by mouth frothing abuse! :rolleyes:

Given what you paid and it's likely rental value, why not let if for another few years and get £350k+ back?

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Guest theboltonfury
I think 11% off peak is fortunate for the buyer not you. In fact it's quite a bullish post. If you put your flat up for sale 6 weeks ago and had 20 viewings before it went to contract with other offers 17% off peak, then id say thats shows a very active market.

I think you are looking for reassurance that you did the right thing, unfortunately your not going to get it from this bunch of rent boys on here. You only need to mention BTL (lived in it or not) Flats, green shoots (20 viewings) and property 'profit' and you'll effectively be thrown into the troll camp, usually accompanied by mouth frothing abuse! :rolleyes:

Given what you paid and it's likely rental value, why not let if for another few years and get £350k+ back?

apart from one lone sniper, I don't think he's had mouth frothing abuse, do you?

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I think 11% off peak is fortunate for the buyer not you. In fact it's quite a bullish post. If you put your flat up for sale 6 weeks ago and had 20 viewings before it went to contract with other offers 17% off peak, then id say thats shows a very active market.

I think you are looking for reassurance that you did the right thing, unfortunately your not going to get it from this bunch of rent boys on here. You only need to mention BTL (lived in it or not) Flats, green shoots (20 viewings) and property 'profit' and you'll effectively be thrown into the troll camp, usually accompanied by mouth frothing abuse! :rolleyes:

Given what you paid and it's likely rental value, why not let if for another few years and get £350k+ back?

The only mouth frothing is coming from you.

And the only thing you appear capable of milking is a cow. <_<

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Cue David Attenborough.....

"And here we see the Bears, deprived of food for days, hungry, weak and starving, turning on each other in a frenzy of cannibalistic behaviour not seen in several years."

"Meanwhile, on the other side of the valley, where the grass is noticably greener, the Bulls graze contentedly...."

:ph34r:

A - Attenborough was talking about Planet Earth!

B - Bears can go without food for 4 - 6 months whilst hibernating!

What Planet are you on Tavish?

'Clangers' ? :P

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apart from one lone sniper, I don't think he's had mouth frothing abuse, do you?

i did say 'usually' Ronnie, i was generalising about bullish posts on this forum. Im sure you don't need me to link for you? :rolleyes:

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Well, more 'Keep' To Let than Buy To Let, as I lived there for three years, and rented it out the past five.

Sigh of relief - I've seen the recent stories of a suposed 'recovery' lately, but I think there's quite a way to go. Think I've been very lucky indeed getting out of it.

Only reason I kept it until now is I remortgaged it to help buy a new flat back in mid '07 (how dumb do I feel now). That locked me into a two year deal with a 20k ERC. But since Mortgage Express (Bradford & Bingley) went bust, they offered to waive the ERC between Feb and June. This tied in nicely with the end of the current tenancy.

Even more stupidly, I did consider selling it at the time I bought my new flat, and was even offered £350k. It exchanged yesterday for £312,500. It was on the market for 6 weeks, but got VERY lucky when the agent found a Euro cash buyer - little London pad for one of their kids for uni I think. I think 11% off peak is fortunate - I only had two other offers from 20 or so viewings, both at £290.

I bought for £190,000 back in 2001, so I can't complain too much. Shame that all that 'profit', and more, has effectively been swallowed up by the drop in my new flat. I reckon it's 'worth' around £470k at the moment, down from £535k, based on recent sales (there's a lot of readily comparable maisonettes on the same street). I would expect it to bottom out around the �350k mark.

Anyway - a little bit of anecdotal material for you.

Marcos

At least I suppose you should avoid CGT.

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Well I must admit to being a bit flippant due to alcohol but really I dont understand how unloading your problem onto a greater fool is within the ethos of this site.

?

I didn't know the site itself had an "ethos".

And most people on here are either:

a) gleefully rubbing their hands together laughing at how much money other people are going to lose on their houses, and hoping for more "forced sellers" and repossessions, so that they can get in and buy cheaply.

B) smugly telling each other that they "saw it coming" and "got out" - by unloading the problem onto a "greater fool" before the crash.

I personally sold a big flat for a £400K clear profit in summer 2007, partly thanks to reading stuff on this web site.

Am I to be applauded for my astuteness and business sense? Or criticised for the fact that the "sucker" who willingly paid £520K for the place has now lost money?

In order for the users of this web site to "win" there must be a largish pool of "greater fools" who believe the hype and who don't know what's going on, who have to "lose", surely?

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Well, more 'Keep' To Let than Buy To Let, as I lived there for three years, and rented it out the past five.

Sigh of relief - I've seen the recent stories of a suposed 'recovery' lately, but I think there's quite a way to go. Think I've been very lucky indeed getting out of it.

Only reason I kept it until now is I remortgaged it to help buy a new flat back in mid '07 (how dumb do I feel now). That locked me into a two year deal with a 20k ERC. But since Mortgage Express (Bradford & Bingley) went bust, they offered to waive the ERC between Feb and June. This tied in nicely with the end of the current tenancy.

Even more stupidly, I did consider selling it at the time I bought my new flat, and was even offered £350k. It exchanged yesterday for £312,500. It was on the market for 6 weeks, but got VERY lucky when the agent found a Euro cash buyer - little London pad for one of their kids for uni I think. I think 11% off peak is fortunate - I only had two other offers from 20 or so viewings, both at £290.

I bought for £190,000 back in 2001, so I can't complain too much. Shame that all that 'profit', and more, has effectively been swallowed up by the drop in my new flat. I reckon it's 'worth' around £470k at the moment, down from £535k, based on recent sales (there's a lot of readily comparable maisonettes on the same street). I would expect it to bottom out around the �350k mark.

Anyway - a little bit of anecdotal material for you.

Marcos

You are richer than I am - considerably so.

Well done in selling your flat and for sharing your info on here with us.

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...and well, you're just a complete knob. but then you've been told that before

Yes, by someone who took 14 years to obtain 1/3 worth of assets it took me less than a year to create and reckons he's "milking it" :rolleyes:

Edited by wealthy

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i found this post interesting as i'm trying to buy in london and have heard rumours in the rics and anecdotes from a colleague buying a flat in london that there is a european effect

so thanks for the anecdotes

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Well, more 'Keep' To Let than Buy To Let, as I lived there for three years, and rented it out the past five.

Sigh of relief - I've seen the recent stories of a suposed 'recovery' lately, but I think there's quite a way to go. Think I've been very lucky indeed getting out of it.

Only reason I kept it until now is I remortgaged it to help buy a new flat back in mid '07 (how dumb do I feel now). That locked me into a two year deal with a 20k ERC. But since Mortgage Express (Bradford & Bingley) went bust, they offered to waive the ERC between Feb and June. This tied in nicely with the end of the current tenancy.

Even more stupidly, I did consider selling it at the time I bought my new flat, and was even offered £350k. It exchanged yesterday for £312,500. It was on the market for 6 weeks, but got VERY lucky when the agent found a Euro cash buyer - little London pad for one of their kids for uni I think. I think 11% off peak is fortunate - I only had two other offers from 20 or so viewings, both at £290.

I bought for £190,000 back in 2001, so I can't complain too much. Shame that all that 'profit', and more, has effectively been swallowed up by the drop in my new flat. I reckon it's 'worth' around £470k at the moment, down from £535k, based on recent sales (there's a lot of readily comparable maisonettes on the same street). I would expect it to bottom out around the �350k mark.

Anyway - a little bit of anecdotal material for you.

Marcos

Hmmm. I don't agree with your figures...

Before you assume that I'm going to do a "B'Stard" on you, I mean that I don't really see how you've lost out. So you put up 190k for the first flat. Ignoring moving expenses and equity paid off over the years, the purchase of your second flat cost 535k, and you've recovered 312.5k. So 190+535-312.5=412.5k outlay. If prices bottom-out at 350k then you've got a paper loss of 62.5k which I assume you won't actually realise as you will stay where you are. If you tried to buy the larger flat up front in 2001 then I'm guessing it would have been around 350k? But you would have been servicing a lot more debt for longer (ignoring the huge multiple that you wouldn't have been able to get from a bank in 2001).

Yes I'm ignoring interest payments, but I'm also ignoring increases in equity as there wasn't enough info to say.

So... 60k for 8 years rent in London. I bet your flat is a bit nicer than what goes for 625pm in your neck of the woods. Well played sir. Well played.

PS To those who are whining about the "morality" of making a profit - sod off. That is what the "freedom" in a free market is all about.

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Hmmm. I don't agree with your figures...

Before you assume that I'm going to do a "B'Stard" on you, I mean that I don't really see how you've lost out. So you put up 190k for the first flat. Ignoring moving expenses and equity paid off over the years, the purchase of your second flat cost 535k, and you've recovered 312.5k. So 190+535-312.5=412.5k outlay. If prices bottom-out at 350k then you've got a paper loss of 62.5k which I assume you won't actually realise as you will stay where you are. If you tried to buy the larger flat up front in 2001 then I'm guessing it would have been around 350k? But you would have been servicing a lot more debt for longer (ignoring the huge multiple that you wouldn't have been able to get from a bank in 2001).

Yes I'm ignoring interest payments, but I'm also ignoring increases in equity as there wasn't enough info to say.

So... 60k for 8 years rent in London. I bet your flat is a bit nicer than what goes for 625pm in your neck of the woods. Well played sir. Well played.

PS To those who are whining about the "morality" of making a profit - sod off. That is what the "freedom" in a free market is all about.

60k would be a net loss however you look at it, interest payments on a mortgage are equal to rent payments to landlord, therefore he will be quids out.

The OP is owning up to 2 mistakes here, the first was owning 2 propertys at the peak of the bubble (luckily -11pct), the second was making the decision to pay a very high price on his 2nd property (-12pct, but prolly more like -15-20%). So the idea to keep the first and rent it out to see how it goes (ie make a profit) back fired.

I don't think anyone is whining about the morality of making a profit here as he clearly did not!

I do think he did well to take it on the chin and sell at the first opportunity presented, but it does ponder the question was the selling forced (ie financial burden) or preferred/panic through seeing profits disintegrate and belief in the market going lower as he states. In other words either situation could present for many smaller btl landlords and create more liquidity.

It's always interesting to see the how the amateur btl's are doing so thanks to the OP for posting.

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You'd do well to learn how to spell, Gonzo.

I wasnt aware you were a school teacher, Ill try better next time.

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Guest X-QUORK
I wasnt aware you were a school teacher, Ill try better next time.

Try harder Gonzo, you're still ******ing up your apostrophes.

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Try harder Gonzo, you're still ******ing up your apostrophes.

:lol:

kill_the_apostrophe_logo.jpg

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I wasnt aware you were a school teacher, Ill try better next time.

Gonzo ! FFS. Don't they require you understand apostrophes before you start work at your shouting desk on Wall street ? :lol:

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It's always interesting to see the how the amateur btl's are doing so thanks to the OP for posting.

Hi there

In answer to a couple of questions raised:

1) I have to pay CGT on 25% of the notional 'profit' (I lived there three years, rented five = total of eight years. Of the five years renting you get three years' grace if it was your main residence before, so that's 2/8 years I have to pay tax)

2) Sale was not forced - rental more than covered interest, never missed a payment. However, I would like to buy a small house with my partner in a couple of years' time, and I didn't want the prospect of a BTL that could easily move into negative equity to mean this was impossible. Also, I want to maximise payments to my residential mortgage, which although I've managed to get just under £400k, still has, I'd say, *at least* another £100k to get to a level that would still give me enough equity to remortgage once the market hits the bottom.

Edited by Marcos Scriven

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You are richer than I am - considerably so.

Well done in selling your flat and for sharing your info on here with us.

You're welcome.

I assume you are infering 'richness' from the value of mortgage I could get? I certainly don't feel 'rich' I can tell you! I am lucky enough to have a good income at the moment, but that could change, literally, any second. Illness, accidents, not to mention deepening recession. I have no savings, just a mortgage I'm overpaying with every spare penny.

Not sure you could describe *anyone* with a mortgage as rich!

Fortunately I'm now in a stable LTR, which make me feel a little more financially secure, but I really wouldn't describe myself as rich. One day maybe :)

Edited by Marcos Scriven

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