Wires 74 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle6418689.ece Apoligies if this has already been covered - but working in the Oil industry I can tell you this is huge news - this is a pension fund basically not in deficit funded by one of largest Companys in the world and even they have yielded to shareholder pressure to bring it to a stop . Looks like only the Public sector now remains for final-salary schemes ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Blame Gordon. He took tax relief away and then change the rules that the pension fund had to keep a higher proportion of assets in gilts. Stuff he can sell them to increase the nations debt so he can spunk it away on pet projects. He has just ruined the pensions of the people of the Uk in the private sector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle6418689.eceApoligies if this has already been covered - but working in the Oil industry I can tell you this is huge news - this is a pension fund basically not in deficit funded by one of largest Companys in the world and even they have yielded to shareholder pressure to bring it to a stop . Looks like only the Public sector now remains for final-salary schemes ... Final salary pensions area luxury that only baby boomers/public servants will ever enjoy, few economies can afford such a massive benefit. BP is just joining a very very long line that have looked at the basic maths/risks and called time. Final salary pension commitments put companies at massive risk should the fund nose dive for reasons beyond their control. Not nice for those affected, but the maths on final salaries hasn't added up for years. They made a lot of sense when people died on Avg within 2 years of retiring, but those days too are long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 It's all coming tumbling down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wires 74 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Barclays just announced they are ending final salary pensions for 18,000 EXISTING staff.http://www.ft.com/cms/s/88c436d0-5076-11de...com%2Fhome%2Fuk Blimey ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillotine Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Coincidentally, the Telegraph is reporting that Barclays are to close their final salary scheme to EXISTING members !! Public sector pensions are for the chop come the next government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wires 74 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Public sector pensions are for the chop come the next government. Can`t see it - would be national chaos as Public Servants went on strike - plus the fact that Turkeys don`t vote for Christmas and as MP`s are major beneficiaries it`s not likely to happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 P O N Z I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Barclays just announced they are ending final salary pensions for 18,000 EXISTING staff.http://www.ft.com/cms/s/88c436d0-5076-11de...com%2Fhome%2Fuk Shocking. They're effectively stealing from their own staff now. Perhaps they should have used the Abu Dhabi investment to buy BARC shares a couple of months ago. That would have cleared their deficit by now. Varley has f*cked them over good and proper. Still, I'm sure his pension fund is protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minos Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It's all coming tumbling down Just wait until people realise the benefits they are to receive will be far less than they expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Just wait until people realise the benefits they are to receive will be far less than they expected. People dot know what's ( or isnt) coming!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotoutintime Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Final salary pensions area luxury that only baby boomers/public servants will ever enjoy, few economies can afford such a massive benefit.BP is just joining a very very long line that have looked at the basic maths/risks and called time. Final salary pension commitments put companies at massive risk should the fund nose dive for reasons beyond their control. Not nice for those affected, but the maths on final salaries hasn't added up for years. They made a lot of sense when people died on Avg within 2 years of retiring, but those days too are long gone. As mentioned by Wires74, BP's Final Salary Scheme was well funded. It was also non-contributory so entirely paid for by the employers out of their profits. A lot of other Final Salary Schemes including some of those in the public sector were considered to be over-funded in the early and mid 90's, Then Employers took a break from funding the schemes for a while, then came Brown in 1998 who robbed money out of all pension schemes for 11 years. The stock market has hardly risen over that 11 year period so that hasn't helped either. I cannot see Public Sector Final Salary Schemes being pulled either, the vast majority of employees don't earn a good salary and the Final Salary Scheme is a major part of their pay & benefits package. I also read today that 47% of Private Sector final salary schemes were still open to new recruits. One great attraction of these schemes is that the employees partner & kids can receive some part of the pension if the pension holder passes on, Death in service benefits are usually around 4 times salary also. IMO Barclays should look after their employee before the shareholders, but they are well known for thieving money to fatten their profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Barclays is withdrawing gold-plated pension benefits from all its staff except 1500 investment bankers based in the US Jeez, feather bedding for the top, unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papag Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Britvic have moved to 1/90th from 1/60 for existing Final Salary staff and barred new workers from the scheme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confounded Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It's all coming tumbling down All these pension funds closing is another nail in the coffin of the Ponzi markets. Guaranteed money is no longer going to stream into the FTSE, not good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patient FTB Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 For anyone that entered the labour market in the last 10 years or so this just doesn't affect them. As far as I'm concerned all of the defined benefit schemes should be scrapped if they are already closed to new members. The boomers sitting on the boards of most large businesses have enjoyed the fruits of massive HPI and are looking forward to bumper pensions courtesy of generous defined benefit schemes. The generations following are paying into defined contribution schemes, if at all, and are looking forward to a distinctly less-rosy retirement. Let's level the playing field a little I say. Stop funding the defined benefit schemes and increase the contributions to other schemes for all staff, not just the older members of staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Can`t see it - would be national chaos as Public Servants went on strike - plus the fact that Turkeys don`t vote for Christmas and as MP`s are major beneficiaries it`s not likely to happen... How much do you want to bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Melchett Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 My company (which is a large conglomerate with a household name over the top) is announcing changes to it's pension scheme (which has an FS compnent) tomorrow. Perhaps ominously, perhaps not, they havent said what those changes are to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I was ridiculed on this site not that long ago for predicting that widesrpead pension schemes will be eventually consigned to the dustbin of history. First to go will be the company schemes, and when money gets tighter people will start to give up on their personal ones too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachman Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 IMO Barclays should look after their business and stop being distracted worrying about the retirement plans of their employees.as for fat profits.................you are joking aren't you?Barcap great Q1,AIG cr@p Q1,add it up. There are very sound reasons for cutting the DB scheme - FRS17 and others amongst them - but fundamentally, these schemes are MASSIVELY unaffordable - even the well funded ones are a massive burden on the companies, because they will effectively be indemnifying the pension funds anyway..... - DB is dead..... it needs to be - because we simply don't die quick enough - the beneficiaries are the current baby boomers - we're paying for them - but we can't afford them for the future - and we HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ON THE SAME POINT - THESE SCHEMES HAVE TO END. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleKev Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 there is quite a bit of ignorance spouted on this site about "boomers". The only generation that have enjoyed final salary pensions well into their retirement are the parents of the boomer generation. The parents of boomers had large families and those large families consisted of the boomers. Us "boomers" have worked all our lives and paid taxes that have directly funded these old bastards that were able to retire at 55 and drive recreational vehicles around the place, while spending the equity on their inflated homes and IP's. As a boomer, born in 1950, I am part of the generation that were teenagers in the 60s. We did not have the large families. We had small families of 1 or two kids who we spoiled rotten, creating the spoiled brats of Gen X. We were the generation who broke the back of the Ponzi scheme. We did not have the large families that would have built another layer of the pyramid underneath us. Very few so called "boomers" have final salary schemes. And very few "boomers" will live a life of luxury based on some mythical empire of property investments. So, I really do wonder what some people on this site are smoking when they talk about "boomers" living the grand life on final salary pensions with massive portfolio of over inflated property. Most boomers have not even retired yet for fecks sake. I dont think that retirement will even be an option for most people in the near future, once the social welfare systems in the western world go bankrupt. I turn 60 next year, and have just converted from being an IT Contractor, to a permanent job in the Oz public service which will see me working until the new Oz retirement age of 67. I think that most of the bile directed at boomers on this site is misdirected rubbish that would be better directed at my parents generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAC67 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Our company pension scheme, which was once in surplus, has been decimated by a combination of golden Gordon's cash grab, crashing markets, and the fact the company didn't pay into the scheme for many years when it was doing well. Now it is going down the swanee, pension scheme and company, things are looking bleak. Interesting to see BP pull their scheme. The worlds most profitable "honest" business, oil, is unable to afford their pension scheme. Do they see a problem with their business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I was ridiculed on this site not that long ago for predicting that widesrpead pension schemes will be eventually consigned to the dustbin of history.First to go will be the company schemes, and when money gets tighter people will start to give up on their personal ones too. you have been proved right though. It's hard isn't it, watching it all unravel in slooooooooooooow motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Barclays is withdrawing gold-plated pension benefits from all its staff except 1500 investment bankers based in the USJeez, feather bedding for the top, unreal. This example is why I am doing everything I can to minimse the money I put into the financial sector I have just taken a job in the private sector following the transition from Local Govt, then free lance contractor to the private sector. My salary is much higher but there is no pension scheme. Choices? Do I take out a stakeholder and personal pension? Stakeholder and use the rest to pay down the mortgage? Or just pay down the mortgage? Buy a large set of PV (which offers a return of 6-7%) and will feck off the leecy company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle6418689.eceApoligies if this has already been covered - but working in the Oil industry I can tell you this is huge news - this is a pension fund basically not in deficit funded by one of largest Companys in the world and even they have yielded to shareholder pressure to bring it to a stop . Looks like only the Public sector now remains for final-salary schemes ... Local govt went over to average salary pension schemes in 2008. Also average employee contribution went up from 6 to 6.8% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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