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People Get It Into Your Thick Heads.

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA

Whatever your circumstances don't buy property now, it still has a long way to fall, so rent and let it.

Then when you buy,get a mortgage 3 x your earnings or 2.5 x joint.Then never take out extra money unless you are improving the place.

Dont fall for this miss the boat nonsense.Get a place you like not a place to get on the so called ladder.

Its far better for all concerned for property prices to be as LOW as possible not as high as possible.

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Whatever your circumstances don't buy property now, it still has a long way to fall, so rent and let it.

Then when you buy,get a mortgage 3 x your earnings or 2.5 x joint.Then never take out extra money unless you are improving the place.

Dont fall for this miss the boat nonsense.Get a place you like not a place to get on the so called ladder.

Its far better for all concerned for property prices to be as LOW as possible not as high as possible.

"

+1 Agreed.

Beware of the proverbial dead cat bounce...housing market has a long way to go before bottoming out.

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Whatever your circumstances don't buy property now, it still has a long way to fall, so rent and let it.

Then when you buy,get a mortgage 3 x your earnings or 2.5 x joint.Then never take out extra money unless you are improving the place.

Dont fall for this miss the boat nonsense.Get a place you like not a place to get on the so called ladder.

Its far better for all concerned for property prices to be as LOW as possible not as high as possible.

Okay, but what about high inflation?

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA
Okay, but what about high inflation?

What about it ?

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trying to explain logic to people is like banging youre head against a brick wall.

Friend of mine bought at peak, but nevermind because even so he isnt highly mortgaged (less than x3 salary) so Negative equity and SVRs shouldnt be a problem. Anyway hes recently come into a bit of money and wants to trade up, but will wait until the market picks up, because he 'cant sell for less than he's bought'. Bear in mind the bit of money that he's come into would pay off the outstanding mortgage in full.

Tried explaining to him that waiting for prices to rise when youre trading up is illogical, but he wouldnt have any of it. Just wont sell for less than he bought.

this is a very intelligent guy. But for some reason, like most in this country, where property is concerned he takes leave of his senses.

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"

+1 Agreed.

Beware of the proverbial dead cat bounce...housing market has a long way to go before bottoming out.

I am as bearish as anybody on this forum but sometimes I wonder if we are not as bad as the bulls if we look on property purely as pounds and pence. I agree it will be a bad investment if that is your only criteria. However, the flip side is that there is something "nice" about living in your own place. If you can afford the payments then why not, if living in that place is your only reason for buying. If it's also dirt cheap, then great. If you are lucky enough to "move up" next time then the price for your first home is immaterial. However, I accept that prices have to come down substantially, in the main to get the FTB's on the "ladder" (I hate that word) in the first place.

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Whatever your circumstances don't buy property now, it still has a long way to fall, so rent and let it.

Then when you buy,get a mortgage 3 x your earnings or 2.5 x joint.Then never take out extra money unless you are improving the place.

Dont fall for this miss the boat nonsense.Get a place you like not a place to get on the so called ladder.

Its far better for all concerned for property prices to be as LOW as possible not as high as possible.

Nahh it all depends on inflation, in a higher inflationary enviroment it makes sence to buy multiple properties and rent them out. Now isnt the time, but there will be a time, and when the time is time you would be best positioned to take out as much money as possible...

Yeah it is better for the majority that prices are low for as long as possible, but the landed and rich live off the fact that land is expensive. It is best for you as an individual to figure out how to be rich and landed, and living it up with the queen.

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I am as bearish as anybody on this forum but sometimes I wonder if we are not as bad as the bulls if we look on property purely as pounds and pence. I agree it will be a bad investment if that is your only criteria. However, the flip side is that there is something "nice" about living in your own place. If you can afford the payments then why not, if living in that place is your only reason for buying. If it's also dirt cheap, then great. If you are lucky enough to "move up" next time then the price for your first home is immaterial. However, I accept that prices have to come down substantially, in the main to get the FTB's on the "ladder" (I hate that word) in the first place.

Theres nothing nice about a new build slave box! Which is what most bonehead FTB salivate over imo.

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"

+1 Agreed.

Beware of the proverbial dead cat bounce...housing market has a long way to go before bottoming out.

My daughter is a good case in point. She works in Manchester and had a rented place in Bramhall. She hated it-landlord did sod all, she didn't feel inclined to spruce it up beyond reason, and couldn't wait to get out. She now has a city centre flat, two good parking spaces, two beds and is as happy as I have seen her for the last two years. Fact that it was a repo is better still but this was about more than money. A blanket approach to "don't buy property now" is too simplistic IMHO. I would say-"Don't buy property now thinking you are going to make money any time soon, plus your property will be worth less in the next five years than it is now". If you can tick those boxes but still love the place, have good job security and Dad pays the deposit then why not? Yep Dad paid the deposit but what price a daughter's happiness? Priceless.

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Whatever your circumstances don't buy property now, it still has a long way to fall, so rent and let it.

Everyone has a unique set of circumstances. For some people it makes sense to move now despite the fact that prices are set to fall further.

How about this example...

A couple have:

£110K in the bank as cash.

Income of £65000

No debts

Say they are renting at ~£950 PCM. They could get a 180k mortgage for ~£1000 PCM, which is marginally more than they are currently paying now and is easily affordable on the joint income. Assuming 10k for moving expenses, this gives them the option to buy a £280K house for the same costs as they are paying now.

Why is this so bad? Suppose houses fall another 10% from peak, so what they've got the benefit and security of locking in a 5 or 10 year fix at historically low interest rates. This security is priceless in printy printy land.

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA
Everyone has a unique set of circumstances. For some people it makes sense to move now despite the fact that prices are set to fall further.

How about this example...

A couple have:

£110K in the bank as cash.

Income of £65000

No debts

Say they are renting at ~£950 PCM. They could get a 180k mortgage for ~£1000 PCM, which is marginally more than they are currently paying now and is easily affordable on the joint income. Assuming 10k for moving expenses, this gives them the option to buy a £280K house for the same costs as they are paying now.

Why is this so bad? Suppose houses fall another 10% from peak, so what they've got the benefit and security of locking in a 5 or 10 year fix at historically low interest rates. This security is priceless in printy printy land.

Yeh not bad at all.

Any sweeping statement like mine will attract all the exceptions that break the rule.

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Theres nothing nice about a new build slave box! Which is what most bonehead FTB salivate over imo.

Agree with you 100% on that. I was just making the point that sometimes money doesn't come in to it. In fact if money was never the reason (beyond affordability) and capital appreciation was not the name of the game, we would have affordable houses right now (plus an industrial base had money actually gone in to making stuff.)

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Yeh not bad at all.

Any sweeping statement like mine will attract all the exceptions that break the rule.

There are an awful lot of people who are looking to put their money somewhere safe. To borrow 200k at 4.39% on a 5 year fix (HSBC) might be a smart move right now despite the fact that house prices will undoubtedly fall further.

Time will tell, but to be honest, I'm not ruling out buying a house in the near future, and I am one of the bearest bears in bearland.

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA
There are an awful lot of people who are looking to put their money somewhere safe. To borrow 200k at 4.39% on a 5 year fix (HSBC) might be a smart move right now despite the fact that house prices will undoubtedly fall further.

Time will tell, but to be honest, I'm not ruling out buying a house in the near future, and I am one of the bearest bears in bearland.

How is that putting THEIR money into somewhere safe its just a debt.

I think you have the ivory shoots of horns growing from your head. You is not behaving very bearish at all and Im starting to think you maybe an EA or a BTL'er or an editor of the express.

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My daughter is a good case in point. She works in Manchester and had a rented place in Bramhall. She hated it-landlord did sod all, she didn't feel inclined to spruce it up beyond reason, and couldn't wait to get out. She now has a city centre flat, two good parking spaces, two beds and is as happy as I have seen her for the last two years. Fact that it was a repo is better still but this was about more than money. A blanket approach to "don't buy property now" is too simplistic IMHO. I would say-"Don't buy property now thinking you are going to make money any time soon, plus your property will be worth less in the next five years than it is now". If you can tick those boxes but still love the place, have good job security and Dad pays the deposit then why not? Yep Dad paid the deposit but what price a daughter's happiness? Priceless.

Fair enough but there is the risk that 5 years down the line you end up regretting the decision when you want to move and realise that the flat is worth £30,000 less than the mortgage outstanding upon it.

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Time will tell, but to be honest, I'm not ruling out buying a house in the near future, and I am one of the bearest bears in bearland.

Same here. It's just a case of finding the right place at the right price. Not much sign of that at the moment, but as soon as I find it, that's it. I won't be putting it off just because I think prices have further to fall.

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What about cash buyers who are buying for the last time..i am 45 now and plan the next house to be the last house. I have held off buying for the last two years now but the arguments with the wife have been hard but i have adamantly told her she can move herself if she wants but it will be rented.... i am planning on starting to look next may but think if it was jst me i would be waiting till 2011..i reckon i have saved myself from losing 50k cash in this time which is not to be scoffed at..

Edited by geoffk

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How is that putting THEIR money into somewhere safe its just a debt.

I think you have the ivory shoots of horns growing from your head. You is not behaving very bearish at all and Im starting to think you maybe an EA or a BTL'er or an editor of the express.

My point is, that in many circumstances buying now is a perfectly valid option. I agree that this is not the case for most people, but everyone is different. For me, buying now is not the financial disaster that it would have been a few years ago.

PM me if you like and I'll give you my SOA and then you can appraise the situation for yourself. I'd be curious to see what you would do in my position.

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Whatever your circumstances don't buy property now, it still has a long way to fall, so rent and let it.

Then when you buy,get a mortgage 3 x your earnings or 2.5 x joint.Then never take out extra money unless you are improving the place.

Dont fall for this miss the boat nonsense.Get a place you like not a place to get on the so called ladder.

Its far better for all concerned for property prices to be as LOW as possible not as high as possible.

Thought I would add some links in case newbies have not read these:

Why we should let Prices Fall

How to Preserve Your Wealth in Uncertain Times

Stay Away From Property It Has A Lot Further to Fall

Why House Prices Have Much Further to Fall

God it must be SO HARD being a bull, there aren't any FACTS or articles to back up your arguments. All the ramping in the papers is always based on zero facts , every "Prices are Rising" is always linked to an article confirming prices are falling .

What did someone say last week "bear facts or bull shit"!

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA
My point is, that in many circumstances buying now is a perfectly valid option. I agree that this is not the case for most people, but everyone is different. For me, buying now is not the financial disaster that it would have been a few years ago.

PM me if you like and I'll give you my SOA and then you can appraise the situation for yourself. I'd be curious to see what you would do in my position.

Whats an SOA ?

I agree, everyone is different apart from me :blink:

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Guest มร หล&#3
Thought I would add some links in case newbies have not read these:

Why we should let Prices Fall

How to Preserve Your Wealth in Uncertain Times

Stay Away From Property It Has A Lot Further to Fall

Why House Prices Have Much Further to Fall

God it must be SO HARD being a bull, there aren't any FACTS or articles to back up your arguments. All the ramping in the papers is always based on zero facts , every "Prices are Rising" is always linked to an article confirming prices are falling .

What did someone say last week "bear facts or bull shit"!

HP's are going to fall way further, but so is the means of people to buy them.

I think all this is great for speculators (which I detest) but not any better for FTB's.

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA
HP's are going to fall way further, but so is the means of people to buy them.

I think all this is great for speculators (which I detest) but not any better for FTB's.

Ah Mr P,the man that was never coming back. ;)

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Guest BAREBEAR_soon to be ALIVA
State of Affairs.

ie my current financial situation.

I believe you. As I said theres always exceptions.

Buy if you want, if youve seen a place you like and plan to stay in it for a while.

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