Taxman Calls In Debt Collectors

[cashinmattress]

Taxman calls in debt collectors

There are fears that the Government is taking the first steps towards outsourcing the tax system after Revenue & Customs announced plans to call in private debt collectors to chase unpaid tax.

Revenue & Customs is negotiating contracts with debt collection agencies for a nationwide six-month pilot project to speed the flow of unpaid income tax, corporation tax and VAT.

The scheme is expected to start later this year.

The Revenue was owed £25 billion as of March 2008, the latest figure available, in a mix of outstanding tax, interest payments, penalty charges and overpaid tax credits.

John Cassidy, tax investigations partner at national accountant PKF, says: 'The big concern here is taxpayer confidentiality.

'What information are they going to give out about your or my personal tax affairs?'

Local tax offices usually chase and collect overdue money and Cassidy says records are often out of date.

The Revenue says: 'We take data security very seriously. The debts will remain ours. We will be responsible for the collection and the management of the debts.'

The moves are part of a wider overhaul of procedures to boost the rate of tax collection as the public finances suffer in the downturn.

Rules that came into effect last month have given Revenue officials wider powers to investigate tax affairs.

They can enter business premises and seize records, while personal taxpayers can face extra demands to produce records with no right of appeal.

The new powers could also help the Revenue in any investigation of whether MPs have abused the capital gains tax rules to profit on their second homes. The Revenue is also planning a further clampdown on those with savings in offshore accounts.

It is seeking account details from 500 banks and will offer a final chance this autumn for people to own up to offshore funds before taking action against them. Cassidy says: 'Overall, the Revenue is getting harder to work with. It is getting more clinical and more adversarial.' There is also growing concern over delays in making refunds to those who have overpaid tax.

The Revenue is selecting a proportion of repayments for extra fraud checks at a specialist unit in Bristol. Rob Durrant-Walker, a tax manager in the York office of accountant UHY Hacker Young, says delays of two months are common and in some cases they can stretch to three months. He says: 'When Bristol takes over the case, your online statement of account says a refund has been paid, but the money doesn't arrive. Taxpayers are told nothing about the extra checks.'

The Revenue pays no interest on income tax refunds it owes, but still charges 2.5% on overdue tax. Retired hotelier Deirdre Buchanan, pictured above, is one of those waiting for a refund. 'My tax return was submitted on time in January,' she says. 'The accountants tell me I am due a £5,000 refund because of losses on an investment. But I have heard nothing.'

Deirdre, a widow in her 70s from Pickering, North Yorkshire, says: 'The delay is frustrating. I was hoping to take a holiday this year but I haven't been able to plan anything because I am waiting for this money.' Cassidy says: 'It is a bit clandestine that the extra checking is being done behind closed doors. A cynic might say the Revenue is hanging on to the money for as long as it can.'

Well, we will definitely see a very aggressive, American style tact with private enterprise gleaming their cut from outstanding tax take, which should alert all ‘contractors’ and ‘landlords’.

The question is, will they be allowed to charge extortionate fees and big interest on top of the tax differentials? I think they will be, so be afraid, very afraid.

Even a £1 shortfall could quickly turn into £100’s by the time fees are levied up on the citizens.

Now is the time for some serious re-think about the state of our British ‘democracy’.

Edited May 26, 2009 by cashinmattress

[bagsos]

Taxman calls in debt collectors

Well, we will definitely see a very aggressive, American style tact with private enterprise gleaming their cut from outstanding tax take, which should alert all ‘contractors’ and ‘landlords’.

The question is, will they be allowed to charge extortionate fees and big interest on top of the tax differentials? I think they will be, so be afraid, very afraid.

Even a £1 shortfall could quickly turn into £100’s by the time fees are levied up on the citizens.

Now is the time for some serious re-think about the state of our British ‘democracy’.

If the Tories are serious about winning the election they would state now that this would be repealed immediately under their watch.

[interestrateripoff]

Increasing costs, isn't that the govt way?

[Methinkshe]

Taxman calls in debt collectors

Well, we will definitely see a very aggressive, American style tact with private enterprise gleaming their cut from outstanding tax take, which should alert all ‘contractors’ and ‘landlords’.

The question is, will they be allowed to charge extortionate fees and big interest on top of the tax differentials? I think they will be, so be afraid, very afraid.

Even a £1 shortfall could quickly turn into £100’s by the time fees are levied up on the citizens.

Now is the time for some serious re-think about the state of our British ‘democracy’.

The worrying thing about this is the new powers given to bailiffs and the fact that they are bully-boys and even though supposedly regulated, are pretty much left to their own devices. There have been threads on this in the past.

Furthermore, I don't think that it is right that government should outsource the collection of taxes to private enterprise with a profit-motive. I can see a pay now, discuss the rights and wrongs later culture developing under threat, much like with wheel-clamping.

[Injin]

The worrying thing about this is the new powers given to bailiffs and the fact that they are bully-boys and even though supposedly regulated, are pretty much left to their own devices. There have been threads on this in the past.

Furthermore, I don't think that it is right that government should outsource the collection of taxes to private enterprise with a profit-motive. I can see a pay now, discuss the rights and wrongs later culture developing under threat, much like with wheel-clamping.

Yep.

Door caved in, all your stuff taken away but that's fine because you can go through the courts to prove your innocence. It'll take a month mind you and there will be no compensation.

In fact, stuff it, they'll just keep your furniture and put you in credit for next years bill.

[Methinkshe]

Yep.

Door caved in, all your stuff taken away but that's fine because you can go through the courts to prove your innocence. It'll take a month mind you and there will be no compensation.

In fact, stuff it, they'll just keep your furniture and put you in credit for next years bill.

Have you noticed how during the time that NuLab has been in government we have subtly shifted from an innocent until proved guilty assumption to a guilty until proved innocent assumption?

It's more than worrying, it's the death knell to the British legal system as we have known it for centuries.

[cashinmattress]

The worrying thing about this is the new powers given to bailiffs and the fact that they are bully-boys and even though supposedly regulated, are pretty much left to their own devices. There have been threads on this in the past.

Furthermore, I don't think that it is right that government should outsource the collection of taxes to private enterprise with a profit-motive. I can see a pay now, discuss the rights and wrongs later culture developing under threat, much like with wheel-clamping.

Thats just it. And once the regulatory framework has been 'relaxed' to let in these fiends, there is no telling where it will go from there. My thinking is that the first line of private collection will play within the rules, and most likely go for the big sums, but they will sub-contract the smaller amounts the real jackal scumbags who specialize in thuggery and extortion.

Is this another case of the state shirking its responsibility? Or an indicator of darker days ahead for Britain?

Edited May 26, 2009 by cashinmattress

[Injin]

Have you noticed how during the time that NuLab has been in government we have subtly shifted from an innocent until proved guilty assumption to a guilty until proved innocent assumption?

It's more than worrying, it's the death knell to the British legal system as we have known it for centuries.

Since the rise of the internet it's become much harder to govern on that basis.

A reasonable comparison can be made to the gutenberg press - as the printed copies spread the ability of the religious leaders to impose their own version of the bible on everyone seriously diminished because anyone who fancied it could go and look up chapter and verse.

So it is with the internet - anyone who wants to look at the law can do so. For a huge state used to getting it's own way mostly because of the ignorance of it's victims this is a complete nightmare. So they are altering the system to meet their own criteria, with the words more aligned to actual practice.

That their actions might have to meet their rhetoric can't be countenanced of course.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Injin

[redwing]

You lot are funny!

Surely, this is privatisation. The state off-loading some of its work to the more efficient private sector.

What's not to like about that, you bunch of anti-statist, right-wing, libertarian nutcases?

[Injin]

Thats just it. And once the regulatory framework has been 'relaxed' to let in these fiends, there is no telling where it will go from there. My thinking is that the first line of private collection will play within the rules, and most likely go for the big sums, but they will sub-contract the smaller amounts the real jackal scumbags who specialize in thuggery and extortion.

Is this another case of the state shirking its responsibility? Or an indicator of darker days ahead for Britain?

What's happened is that the idea of big state doing everything (that rose through the last 150 years) is finally being put to bed.

Doesn't seem that way right now, but that's the process that is underway, again it can be likened to the fall of the church in earlier times - a dominant ideology has been found flawed and is on the wane. Again, like religion, after a lot of argy bargy, the state will be put in it's proper place.

Between there and here is a river of misery though.

[Injin]

You lot are funny!

Surely, this is privatisation. The state off-loading some of its work to the more efficient private sector.

What's not to like about that, you bunch of anti-statist, right-wing, libertarian nutcases?

If you are libertarian you are against threats and violence as a methodology for solving problems. Doesn't matter whether it's a government, the mafia or your mate Dave - wrong is wrong.

Privatising the ability to scare ths shit out of pensioners or cave peoples front door in is evil.

[Methinkshe]

To elaborate on my previous post:

The fixed penalty notices that are issued for such things as were formerly known as "drunk and disorderly" assume guilt and require immediate payment or a premium charged; if you want to protest your innocence you have recourse to the courts. But, see what has happened...if one has to protest one's innocence then one has summarily been found guilty.

It starts with little things, but a principle has been betrayed and a line has been crossed............

[cashinmattress]

It starts with little things, but a principle has been betrayed and a line has been crossed............

That's it, well put!

Once the implied and trusted bond of tax collection and the dispursal of the revenue is corrupted by exterior influence, who's modus operandi is beyond that of the welfare of the state/citizen union, the contract between citizen and state no longer applies.

Scary.

Edited May 26, 2009 by cashinmattress

[Methinkshe]

Since the rise of the internet it's become much harder to govern on that basis.

A reasonable comparison can be made to the gutenberg press - as the printed copies spread the ability of the religious leaders to impose their own version of the bible on everyone seriously diminished because anyone who fancied it could go and look up chapter and verse.

So it is with the internet - anyone who wants to look at the law can do so. For a huge state used to getting it's own way mostly because of the ignorance of it's victims this is a complete nightmare. So they are altering the system to meet their own criteria, with the words more aligned to actual practice.

That their actions might have to meet their rhetoric can't be countenanced of course.

Agreed, although don't forget that the first step towards freedom from the grip of Roman priests was the translation from Latin into English of the Bible. Thereafter the Guttenberg press was instrumental in distribution of the Bible.

You make a good comparison with the internet - but it is the very reason why the internet will be threatened by the powers-that-be. Just as the likes of William Tyndale ended up losing his life for his efforts to translate the Bible into English, so it will be that those who attempt to guard the free flow of information via the internet will be persecuted.

[Badger]

My missus STILL hasn't had her tax bill after submitting her return months ago so had to pay what she calculated it to be. If they find she owes more, apparently she'll be fined for late payment.

[Methinkshe]

My missus STILL hasn't had her tax bill after submitting her return months ago so had to pay what she calculated it to be. If they find she owes more, apparently she'll be fined for late payment.

Ah, you/your wife could be one of the test cases where you find a bailiff on your doorstep with right of entry and seizure of goods for a bill that may or may not be accurate (and probably dependent on the ability of the tax office to process tax returns) but is nevertheless considered overdue. Guilty until you can prove your innocence.

[Never Going To Buy !]

You lot are funny!

Surely, this is privatisation. The state off-loading some of its work to the more efficient private sector.

What's not to like about that, you bunch of anti-statist, right-wing, libertarian nutcases?

You Sir, are a c0ck.

I do not even need to explain why. Because you already know.

[Methinkshe]

You lot are funny!

Surely, this is privatisation. The state off-loading some of its work to the more efficient private sector.

What's not to like about that, you bunch of anti-statist, right-wing, libertarian nutcases?

In one breath you include anti-statist, right wing, libertarian, and nutcases.

To address just one of your accusations, may I ask what you have against those who support liberty/are libertarians?

[Nationalist]

New Labour abrogated the Right to Silence pretty much day one of their reign of terror.

Then they introduced ASBOs - Punishment without conviction.

Then, "Proceeds of Crime Confiscation", of course you have to prove your money or goods are lawfully acquired - they don't have to prove a crime.

Executive Detention - You're guilty because we say you are.

Double Jeopardy...

etc

You'd think the Nazis were in power.

[Methinkshe]

New Labour abrogated the Right to Silence pretty much day one of their reign of terror.

Then they introduced ASBOs - Punishment without conviction.

Then, "Proceeds of Crime Confiscation", of course you have to prove your money or goods are lawfully acquired - they don't have to prove a crime.

Executive Detention - You're guilty because we say you are.

Double Jeopardy...

etc

You'd think the Nazis were in power.

Hear, Hear!

Edited May 26, 2009 by Methinkshe

[bkkandrew]

I think this move underlines why I was so utterly correct in opting out the the giant, evil tax system in 1996, whose only purpose is to subjugate, enslave and harrass the productive populace.

[Methinkshe]

I think this move underlines why I was so utterly correct in opting out the the giant, evil tax system in 1996, whose only purpose is to subjugate, enslave and harrass the productive populace.

How did you opt out - emigrate?

Just interested................

[davidhpc]

More harrassment of the private sector by the crooks stuffing their pockets with our taxes (they do very kindly give some of it back in taxes).

[Methinkshe]

More harrassment of the private sector by the crooks stuffing their pockets with our taxes (they do very kindly give some of it back in taxes).

Umm, I'm not sure that I understand exactly where you're coming from. Care to elucidate?

[Traktion]

Wouldn't simplifying the tax process to just charge an equivalent VAT be easier than adding yet more bureaucracy into the mix?

Using just VAT would also give people the flexibility to spend less and save tax. That would help pay down debt (as repayments could be tax free) for those who need to, while discouraging wasteful spending. To help the poor, VAT could be low on essential food stock and heating costs.

I don't suppose the logic of the above fits in with the perversion of the 'consumption lead' economy though!