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You can always rely on a nugget from good old McFantasy, he claims no less that "there are over a million unsold properties, and it's no problem because people will hold their price." Now this is all feasible in McFantasy land, but dig a little deeper and you'll find many of the people sitting on the sidelines waiting to sell are:

Families : a new kid is on it's way, only in McFantasy land can they hold onto their 1 bedroom flat for the foreseeable future

Pensioners : still living in the family home but can't maintain it anymore, is too big for their requirements and need to do away with stairs. Only in McFantasy land can they continue to live like that for a long period of time.

Re-locaters : new job, and especially in this market you have to take it. Going to commute from LondonToManchester for the next year or two? Only in McFantasy land.

McFantasy, do you know any real people?

There's only so long these people can hold on for, but McFantasy and the likes insist that these people are waiting for a recovery.

Yes TOO RIGHT they're waiting for a recovery, but not the sort of recovery that involves rampant HPI. These people are in fact waiting for prices to go down to a point where everbody thinks they're at a reasonable level so they don't have to concern themselves with broken chains, fantasy prices, and instability.

Stability in the market can ONLY be achieved if rampant HPI is seemingly knocked on the head for good. A sudden increase in prices is going to make these types of sellers suspicious, they're not going to be jumping for joy because the rollecoaster started again. Similarly, at some point the downward spiral has to stop, and this means flushing all the McFantasy types for good.

This is why we are going to get drops until in the majority of peoples heads house prices are at a reasonable level. It's about time McFantasy and the likes faced up to the fact that PEOPLE DO NOT WANT HIGH UNSTABLE HOUSE PRICES and can see through the fantasy pricing.

This level that needs to be reached is the age old 3.5x salary. Until we reach it, the housing market will lack any form of confidence. So this is why these people are not putting property on the market, it's NOT because they're waiting out for a McFantasy price. When house prices get to a reasonable level and stability is achieved, those waiting for a McFantasy price will suddenly find themselves undercut by 30-40% by a huge number of these types of sellers. And what are they going to do then? McFantasise some more no doubt! :P

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Yes TOO RIGHT they're waiting for a recovery, but not the sort of recovery that involves rampant HPI. These people are in fact waiting for prices to go down.......

This level that needs to be reached is the age old 3.5x salary. Until we reach it, the housing market will lack any form of confidence. So this is why these people are not putting property on the market, it's NOT because they're waiting out for a McFantasy price.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh cr@p, thats so funny I almost wet myself.

You actually believe people are holding off selling............

....... wait for it.........

UNTIL THEY CAN GET A LOWER PRICE????????????????

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Awwwww, bless, off the meds again are you?

Edited by HAMISH_MCTAVISH

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh cr@p, thats so funny I almost wet myself.

You actually believe people are holding off selling............

....... wait for it.........

UNTIL THEY CAN GET A LOWER PRICE????????????????

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Awwwww, bless, off the meds again are you?

Oh McFantasy, yes they are and that includes you and Sibbers. You just don't get that house prices are RELATIVE. :rolleyes:

For if you really believed that house prices were going up you would have moved up the chain would you not?

Otherwise McFantasy you're waiting out so that you can PAY MORE TO MOVE UP THE CHAIN :lol:

Edited by wealthy

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For if you really believed that house prices were going up you would have moved up the chain would you not?

Otherwise McFantasy you're waiting out so that you can PAY MORE TO MOVE UP THE CHAIN :lol:

Except I'm already at the top of the chain?????? :blink:

I already have a detached in the country, and a terraced in the city. WTF would I do with another property?

This ain't monopoly you know. Seriously, get back on your meds, quick. You're starting to make CCC look sane.

Edited by HAMISH_MCTAVISH

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh cr@p, thats so funny I almost wet myself.

You actually believe people are holding off selling............

....... wait for it.........

UNTIL THEY CAN GET A LOWER PRICE????????????????

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Awwwww, bless, off the meds again are you?

Sorry to ***** your bubble, but my parents are doing this exact thing. Waiting for things to stabalise (whether that be prices up or down), before going back on the market. They have next to zero mortgage and unlike your type, couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less. I believe a lot of people without a mortgage, or a very little mortgage, are doing the same. These are the types you bulls need to be scared of. They likely never knew what their property was 'worth' at peak and when they come to the market, they don't care what the valuation is, because the smaller place they're downsizing to has proportionally dropped in price.

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Except I'm already at the top of the chain?????? :blink:

I already have a detached in the country, and a terraced in the city. WTF would I do with another property?

This ain't monopoly you know. Seriously, get back on your meds, quick. You're starting to make CCC look sane.

So McFantasy, lets see, after all your deliberations on housing being the backbone of creating wealth, you do not want to use it as a vehicle to create more wealth.

You are going to stop at a poxy detached in the country and terraced in the city?

Dear oh dear McFantasy, it's bit contradictory to claim how good an investment housing is then stop investing in it :rolleyes:

I ask again do you know any real people? They aren't living in McFantasy and are holding their price to pay MORE for their next move up the ladder :lol:

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I already have a detached in the country

Given that you told us yesterday that you spent £28 last year on maintenance, I imagine this probably means a bus shelter.

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And that's a good point from the OP. A lot of upsizes, trapped in their small homes and prevented from moving up the ladder by high prices, are also probably waiting before going to market. Again, it's all about the percentage falls and the house you're moving to dropping by the same percentage as the one you're selling. Upsizers stand to gain more than the downsizers by waiting it out as they'll need a smaller mortgage, or will be able to get more house for their money. Seems the only people who care for high house prices are those that have second properties. :rolleyes:

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Sorry to ***** your bubble, but my parents are doing this exact thing. Waiting for things to stabalise (whether that be prices up or down), before going back on the market. They have next to zero mortgage and unlike your type, couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less. I believe a lot of people without a mortgage, or a very little mortgage, are doing the same. These are the types you bulls need to be scared of. They likely never knew what their property was 'worth' at peak and when they come to the market, they don't care what the valuation is, because the smaller place they're downsizing to has proportionally dropped in price.

And clearly, as you are proving, insanity is hereditary.

Downsizers are the very people who benefit most from higher prices. They "couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less". Uh huh........ And they'll have pissed away the difference by procrastinating.

300K house to sell, 200K house to buy, end up with 100K cash.

30% fall in prices.

210K house to sell, 140K house to buy, end up with 70K cash.

I'm certain "the bulls" have nothing to fear from people like that. Darwins theory of natural selection means very few people that stupid are still alive.....

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Sorry to ***** your bubble, but my parents are doing this exact thing. Waiting for things to stabalise (whether that be prices up or down), before going back on the market. They have next to zero mortgage and unlike your type, couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less. I believe a lot of people without a mortgage, or a very little mortgage, are doing the same. These are the types you bulls need to be scared of. They likely never knew what their property was 'worth' at peak and when they come to the market, they don't care what the valuation is, because the smaller place they're downsizing to has proportionally dropped in price.

Sorry Namaste, doesn't compute.... Your parents are holding off because they don't give a damn about money? They're either extremely rich, or in their dotage! That's your inheritance they're squandering! I'm holding off moving up the ladder, as the drop in prices works in my favour, and there will be a drop.....

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Sorry to ***** your bubble, but my parents are doing this exact thing. Waiting for things to stabalise (whether that be prices up or down), before going back on the market. They have next to zero mortgage and unlike your type, couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less. I believe a lot of people without a mortgage, or a very little mortgage, are doing the same. These are the types you bulls need to be scared of. They likely never knew what their property was 'worth' at peak and when they come to the market, they don't care what the valuation is, because the smaller place they're downsizing to has proportionally dropped in price.

exactly so. This is the position I am in at the moment waiting for a stable market. I suspected I was not alone. I never really counted the equity in my house as real wealth or as an investment - it was a home that some idiot EA could set a value on which a buyer might or might not pay.

To quote numerous intelligent souls on here and in the media - a house is 'worth' what someone else will pay for it. It is not necessarily worth the size of your mortgage, it may not be worth what you paid for it, it is not worth what you 'need' to get to move up the ladder.

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And clearly, as you are proving, insanity is hereditary.

Downsizers are the very people who benefit most from higher prices. They "couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less". Uh huh........ And they'll have pissed away the difference by procrastinating.

300K house to sell, 200K house to buy, end up with 100K cash.

30% fall in prices.

210K house to sell, 140K house to buy, end up with 70K cash.

I'm certain "the bulls" have nothing to fear from people like that. Darwins theory of natural selection means very few people that stupid are still alive.....

McFantasy I ask again do you know any real people?

There are a huge amount of downsizers that are at that stage of life where they will wait until all the turbulence is over so that they can get a comfortable move. You do not seem to understand that a few more thousand is often of no consequence to people that don't McFantasise about being the richest muppet in the grave.

Geddit? Probably not. I bet your entire circle of people consists of those who would sell their mother for a fiver. Either that or you're living in a studio flat in a high rise on the outskirts of Aberdeen and you don't know anyone because you haven't left your flat in 12 years :lol:

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And clearly, as you are proving, insanity is hereditary.

Downsizers are the very people who benefit most from higher prices. They "couldn't give a damn what they get for their house as the smaller one they're moving into will still cost less". Uh huh........ And they'll have pissed away the difference by procrastinating.

300K house to sell, 200K house to buy, end up with 100K cash.

30% fall in prices.

210K house to sell, 140K house to buy, end up with 70K cash.

I'm certain "the bulls" have nothing to fear from people like that. Darwins theory of natural selection means very few people that stupid are still alive.....

And it amuses me you think every homeowner thinks like you, with their 'investor' glasses on. Its a good job for you they don't because we would have had capitulation long ago. Yes they are waiting for stability in prices, because they don't want to get caught selling too low, then prices jump before they can move on. The fact you think they should sell now suggests you believe prices have got much further to fall. :lol:

Edited by Namaste

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Sorry Namaste, doesn't compute.... Your parents are holding off because they don't give a damn about money? They're either extremely rich, or in their dotage! That's your inheritance they're squandering! I'm holding off moving up the ladder, as the drop in prices works in my favour, and there will be a drop.....

See my post above for their reasons, and dont see why people think this is so strange. No they're not rich. They are just not as money oriented as you. I'm perfectly well off and am not planning my future with a penny of inheritance.

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Given that you told us yesterday that you spent £28 last year on maintenance, I imagine this probably means a bus shelter.

What is the obsession you people have with maintenance? It's just not that expensive.

In the 20 years I've owned my first house, I've spent around 5K on maintenance, and another 5K on (optional) upgrades like kitchen, bathroom, etc. It's been years since it needed any more than cleaning the gutters and the odd paint or varnish touch up. Paint is cheap. My time to clean gutters is free.

In the 2 1/2 years I've owned my second house, I've spent around £20 until the boiler packed in, now it's £68. At some point I'll have to spend money, but the previous owner did all the big stuff quite recently before I bought it. (new kitchen, bathroom, carpets, DG, etc) It'll mostly last for a decade or more.

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It should also be borne in mind that "detached houses in the country" are worth so little in Aberdeenshire that they can be found in every corner of the county, abandoned and left to fall down. It's one of the things that always amazes me when I visit my mate in Banff.

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It should also be borne in mind that "detached houses in the country" are worth so little in Aberdeenshire that they can be found in every corner of the county, abandoned and left to fall down. It's one of the things that always amazes me when I visit my mate in Banff.

Aye, you're not wrong there, in some parts anyway.

Detached in the Shire range from around 120K to around 2.5 million, depending on size and proximity to Aberdeen. But it's a big shire, and some of these places are a good 2 hours from civilisation.

Theres quite a few delapidated cottages in the hills that still aren't economically viable to renovate. Which does prove the point somewhat that prices weren't too high everywhere...... Still, at least they add to the "empty homes" numbers...... :lol:

Banff is a little far out for my taste. But the good sized 4/5 bed detached with big gardens within 45 minutes of the city range from 250K to 500K. 2/3 bed detached more like 150-250. And semi/terraced in small villages as low as 90K.

Edited by HAMISH_MCTAVISH

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See my post above for their reasons, and dont see why people think this is so strange. No they're not rich. They are just not as money oriented as you. I'm perfectly well off and am not planning my future with a penny of inheritance.

I like to think of myself as having a Scottish relationship with money :rolleyes: I'm afraid nowadays you have to either have an excellant Bupa policy, or plan for some heavy financial hit's when you get older mate.

Anyway, I like to think that I'll give some members of my family an extra cash boost when I pop my clogs, nothing wrong with that

I'm enjoying the turmoil myself, but I know that the older generations have a mental block when it comes to haggling over the price of something....

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Banff is a little far out for my taste. But the good sized detached within 45 minutes of the city range from 250K to 500K.

200 to 400K at present, McFantasy

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And clearly, as you are proving, insanity is hereditary.

I guess the world must seem insane to you. What, with house prices falling, falling..

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Banff is a little far out for my taste.

Banff is lovely, he lived in Portsoy before that, Portsoy is a wonderful place too, the whole of Aberdeenshire is beautiful. Apart from Aberdeen of course. ;)

But it never ceases to amaze me to see Aberdeenshire cottages which have been walked away from, abandoned and left to fall down, simply because there is no work (unless you could stomach working in Audrey Baxter's soup factory).

In Surrey those slowly-rotting cottages with half an acre of land would be worth £750,000+, yet you see one a mile in Aberdeenshire, tumbledown and forgotten. They had no monetary value at all in 2007 and they are worth the same now....

I feel that local conditions have blinded you to the situation in the rest of the UK.

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Banff is lovely, he lived in Portsoy before that, Portsoy is a wonderful place too, the whole of Aberdeenshire is beautiful. Apart from Aberdeen of course. ;)

But it never ceases to amaze me to see Aberdeenshire cottages which have been walked away from, abandoned and left to fall down, simply because there is no work (unless you could stomach working in Audrey Baxter's soup factory).

But thats the thing. There are vast swathes of the country in a similar situation. Probably a geographic majority. And thats where the empty houses are, primarily.

In Surrey those slowly-rotting cottages with half an acre of land would be worth £750,000+, yet you see one a mile in Aberdeenshire, tumbledown and forgotten. They had no monetary value at all in 2007 and they are worth the same now....

Indeed. Which only further proves my point that whilst there is no overall shortgage of houses, there is a huge shortgage in the places people want to live, and where there is employment to support them.

I feel that local conditions have blinded you to the situation in the rest of the UK.

And vice versa.

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