Realisation

[Badger]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

[laurejon]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

Have you considered renting yourself, and investing in BTL.

BTL will give others the opportunity to pay down your debt, whilst you live a life of freedom watching the money roll in ?

[IMHAL]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

Not far off where my I am at. Can't see the point in buying when its cheaper to rent - when the stuation changes then I change my mind. Prices would have to fall by another 25% for me to even consider it worth looking.

[laurejon]

Not far off where my I am at. Can't see the point in buying when its cheaper to rent - when the stuation changes then I change my mind. Prices would have to fall by another 25% for me to even consider it worth looking.

Give it two years and your dream will be coming true, in fact the prediction is 50% off peak by city analysts so maybe wait three years.

[kara gee]

I totally understand where your coming from, but as you mentioned retirement earlier, as long as you have in place secure finances (whatever that is) to make sure you can cover your rent in your old age. Also do we have long-term tennancies any more?

[HovelinHove]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

It is so odd how we all seem to be dreaming of a life of slavery to the banks (albeit we are dreaming of shorter periods of slavery than the suckers who have bought in recent years). I totally agree with the freedom side of things. I just married a Kiwi, am in the middle of applying for a canadian visa, and have lots of rellies in Germany. If I had a massive mortgage, I would be tied to this country forever...as it stands I can leave tommorrow, step off this crazy tredmill. The best thing of all is that when you are in this position of freedom, you don't hate your job so much as you can leave it, and when you are able to leave something, you take a more realistic view and decide things aren't so bad. If I had no choice but to get up and do my job for the next 25 years, I would feel very differently about it.

We are supposed to be free...land ownership is utterly evil.

[IMHAL]

Give it two years and your dream will be coming true, in fact the prediction is 50% off peak by city analysts so maybe wait three years.

I get the feeling that 'reality' may enter the market sooner than that, ie after the next general election - that will be an opportune time to tell the electorate just how bad the patient is and how harsh the medicine will have to be. At that point the money for nothing dream should just about evaporate and the people of this country will realise that they are in trouble, they will have to work to pay off their debt and that there are no more fools just around the corner to buy their crappy semi for half a mil. At that point we will start seeing asking prices being to match reality and selling prices starting to reflect when people can pay or are willing to pay.

[cashinmattress]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

Well, the danger is that inflation will destroy your paper wealth, although there are other investments outside of property which will ensure you have purchasing power.

Being debt free is a very big luxury for a citizen of the UK. Why would you want to sign into a contract which will commit you to financial servitude for potentially the rest of your life?

[Harry Monk]

I will probably still buy but certainly not before it becomes a practical economic proposition and I can do it with a mortgage of under £30,000.

[Minos]

It's actually quite liberating never to have to worry about repair bills or the boiler breaking down. You just get on with your life and let the landlord take the pain. The only downside for me is the lack of a garden for growing veg - that will ultimately make me go for a house some time in the future. Allotments just don't do it for me and there are none nearby.

How often do things need repairing and how often does the boiler break down?

[Saving For a Space Ship]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

You've got me thinking about how much of a consumerist meme conspiracy that buying a house really is. Renting, by it's percieved temporary state, means you are not going ususally going to splash out on debt for many expensive items, compared to if you owned it. The landlord is likely to install much cheaper kitchen and bathroom fittings etc, as tenants give them harder wear.

The idea of building an extremely low energy 'off grid' house still appeals to me. Primarily to encourage a design ideal not as depressing as Barratt style housing designs that have not really evolved since the 80s. We need more visible alternatives imo.

I've always been luke warm to the idea of buying a house due to it's 'in it for the long term' status. The long term is increasingly shaky, primarily for reasons of environmental & resource scarcity, with the wars and conflict that produces. There are no 'jobs for life' as in the age when mortgages were invented. Overpopulation increases massive competition for mortgage payments, making the business world a more ruthless immoral place.

Don't even get me started on the demographic and general economic uncertainties ..

[Supertop]

Do not make the mistake I made. I thought "mortgage free" & "financial independence" were the same thing.

It was quite a shock, after having paid my mortgage off a few years ago to discover that I still could not escape from the misery of dilbert land as there are still bills to pay, food to be bought etc. (especially if you have kids)

Maybe not mortgage slavery, but slavery all the same

[laurejon]

How often do things need repairing and how often does the boiler break down?

Thats a good question because if you own your own house you simply call the plummer and he comes round in a couple of hours and repairs it.

When a letting agent is involved he has to contact the Landlord and get approval to spend the money, then the plummer pops over in a couple of days, provides a quote which goes in the post, then the Landlord agrees it, then the agent instructs the plummer. The whole thing can take weeks!!!.

That said, renting is for sure the cheapest option today if you dont mind roughing it for a few years.

[Minos]

Do not make the mistake I made. I thought "mortgage free" & "financial independence" were the same thing.

It was quite a shock, after having paid my mortgage off a few years ago to discover that I still could not escape from the misery of dilbert land as there are still bills to pay, food to be bought etc. (especially if you have kids)

Maybe not mortgage slavery, but slavery all the same

Paying for your way in the world = slavery?

[Montauk]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

Yes, I agree. The freedom of renting is an especially sweet position to be in at present. I will buy something if prices go significantly below renting costs, however, as I did in the mid 90's. It was if someone paid me $1000 per month to live in a house for 12 years and then wrote me a cheque for $170K to move out when the house fell into complete disrepair needing a new roof, windows, landscaping, electric, plumbing, and more! Best thing I've ever done! Now I live in a much better house in a much better neighborhood with cash, gold and silver in the bank. What's more, I'm completely debt free! (And no mortgage!) Thanks for your post!

[fflump]

How often do things need repairing and how often does the boiler break down?

Expenses my landlord has incurred since we STR last spring:

-buildings insurance £300 (?)

-new washing machine £300

-plumbing repaired for dishwasher £80

-new lock for front door £100

-statutory notice served on tenement block for roof and stonework repairs £2000

And our rent does not cover his mortgage.

These are facts-he is a 'reluctant landlord' who is renting after failing to sell at an excessive price last spring.

[Minos]

Expenses my landlord has incurred since we STR last spring:

-buildings insurance £300 (?)

-new washing machine £300

-plumbing repaired for dishwasher £80

-new lock for front door £100

-statutory notice served on tenement block for roof and stonework repairs £2000

And our rent does not cover his mortgage.

These are facts-he is a 'reluctant landlord' who is renting after failing to sell at an excessive price last spring.

He didn't do his sums properly then.

[cashinmattress]

...if you dont mind roughing it for a few years.

Eh? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Do you think that the people renting in Britain all have irresponsible shylock landlords and live in squalor?

That sir, is very ignorant of you to say.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I would be happy renting for the rest of my life if I didn't have one of those gold plated public sector pensions. If i did rent no doubt that when I retired I would have to use a substantial amount of that pension to pay rent.

So in my case it would be more viable to purchase.

[Montauk]

I would be happy renting for the rest of my life if I didn't have one of those gold plated public sector pensions. If i did rent no doubt that when I retired I would have to use a substantial amount of that pension to pay rent.

So in my case it would be more viable to purchase.

Yes, but timing is everything. Why pay more? My guess is that it's better to buy other things now such as some gold, some silver, some commodities and good company stocks after the next leg down, and then cash it all in to buy a house a rock bottom prices just before the hypeinflation kicks in. But what do I know? It's just my best guess, but I've certainly been wrong before!

[Cozza]

Expenses my landlord has incurred since we STR last spring:

-buildings insurance £300 (?)

-new washing machine £300

-plumbing repaired for dishwasher £80

-new lock for front door £100

-statutory notice served on tenement block for roof and stonework repairs £2000

And our rent does not cover his mortgage.

These are facts-he is a 'reluctant landlord' who is renting after failing to sell at an excessive price last spring.

BTL is certainly not a good idea if a flat is leasehold and there is an unscrupulous freehold owner in the background. I could provide you with a very long list of commercial freeholders, whose SOLE TASK is to rip off the leasehold owners for HUGE SUMS of cash.

If the BTLer has got one of these avaricious wolves howling at their door, you can be sure they won't be making much in profit from the rent.

[Supertop]

Paying for your way in the world = slavery?

I really enjoy doing something honest and productive. someone famous once said "work is more fun than fun"

Its just that the modern workplace, with its superficial congeniality, rigid schedules, "dress-code" and silly corporate language feels like slavery to me

[clubberdude]

After years of waiting for prices to fall I enquire how much I can borrow, plenty it seems, in order to buy. Comparing my current debt free status, renting happily, pile of cash in the bank however, to contemplating entering into a 'Death Grip' of a (still) large mortgage has caused an epiphany of sorts.

Why am I still blindly wanting this, what are my motivations? Chiefly pride it seems, wanting to be an 'owner' rather than a renter. That and the spectre of retirement.

Well you know what? f**k that. I've realised I'm happier now than I think I could be owning a massive debt and living in a house the bank has bought for me and is allowing me to live in, as long as I continue to live in fear and sweat over making those repayments for the next 25 years.

If I could buy the place I'm happily renting now, I may consider it. But other than that, I'm seriously considering whole-heartedly entering the renting game for life and shoving away piles of cash into savings and investments instead.

Life by its very nature should be about freedom and the way I'm feeling right now, getting a mortgage seems to be the very antithesis of that. I'm 39 next month so am having to think more seriously about this, despite that, I'm feeling in a more life-affirming place than I have done for many years as a result of daring to consider Not Buying.

I came to that conclusion a while back actually. I've recently gone off the idea of buying property. Its too expensive, and well frankly, having a mortgage can be a large restriction if you wanted to say emigrate. Add to that the instability in the market and its not a too attractive option atm.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Yes, but timing is everything. Why pay more? My guess is that it's better to buy other things now such as some gold, some silver, some commodities and good company stocks after the next leg down, and then cash it all in to buy a house a rock bottom prices just before the hypeinflation kicks in. But what do I know? It's just my best guess, but I've certainly been wrong before!

I agree, thats why I will only consider purchasing at -40% of 2007 peak.

The trouble I am having with coming to a reasonable offer is that how reliable are 2007 peak prices with liar loans etc. Having researched prices paid for similar properties using the various tools at my disposal it seems that prices back in 2007 were, quite frankly, way, way too high.

Edited May 24, 2009 by superdez

[Lander]

Thats a good question because if you own your own house you simply call the plummer and he comes round in a couple of hours and repairs it.

When a letting agent is involved he has to contact the Landlord and get approval to spend the money, then the plummer pops over in a couple of days, provides a quote which goes in the post, then the Landlord agrees it, then the agent instructs the plummer. The whole thing can take weeks!!!.

That said, renting is for sure the cheapest option today if you dont mind roughing it for a few years.

I estimate that my LL has spent around £5k on repairs and upgrades since I have been renting this house. All I have to do is pick up the phone and explain what the problem is and she will send a plumber/trician/DIY man round the following day. Also my rent has remained unchanged for 5 years. Although my LL is quite fussy about the upkeep of her property, I think it's a good thing. Renting is very convenient and I'm in no rush to become a debt slave. I see no reason to buy a property unless they come down another 50%.