'your' Vision Of Britain In The Future After Economic Crisis

[kara gee]

Something topical and hopefully positive for this lovely Friday.

I see this global economic crash as a great thing. It's woken us up to unsustainable economic models, banking and businesses.

In the future we will stop looking at interminable economic growth as a good thing, and look more introsectively at how we can live sustainably. We will become a country of self-reliance. Importing and exporting nothing. (ok, may seem far-fetched due to nearly everything we touch is either foreign made or made from oil).

Borders are closed for immigration.

Land laws are relaxed for us to be able to de-centralise, build our own homes and communities.

Huge political reform. All political decisions are voted for, not made by single party.

Huge benefits reforms. We look after our eldery, disabled, and handicapped with respect and compassion. other benefits claimants have to work for their financial assistance.

We do not pay for other people to have children. (i have kids btw, and have just recieved another £190 for getting pregnant. This is on top of the £2k per year in child benefit and child tax credits and I think it's wrong).

We are responsible for ourselves and our families futures.

As a population we are happier, we earn a lot less and own a lot less stuff. But we live close to our families and friends, are self-reliant and children are safe playing in their local community

My ideal future is of a simpler more rural Britain.

What's yours?

Edited May 22, 2009 by kara gee

[Quagmire]

My ideals line-up with those of Ron Paul. Small government, well enforced private property laws. I also agree with his transition ideas, you can't just 'cut off' those dependent on the state.

Put simply:

• No imperialism. All armed forces come home.
  
• No entangling alliances. Bin NATO, drop the EU.
  
• A constitution similar to that of the US and well enforced.
  
• Small government, low taxes.
  
• Most importantly, sound money.
  

[VeryMeanReversion]

We will become a country of self-reliance. Importing and exporting nothing. Borders are closed for immigration.

Then expect the standard of living available in Burma.

VMR.

[carbonoid]

Then expect the standard of living available in Burma.

VMR.

And Burma has oil.

[Nationalist]

It's a bit utopian (utopia is Greek for "nowhere") but achievable to some extent.

Unfortunately a fair amount of pain has to be handed out to get there. Governments have been taking the path of least resistance for many decades and undoing that will irk a lot of people, viz:

1. Chav class will have to rediscover the world of work.

2. Public sector employees will have to learn to do something useful for a living.

3. Immigrants will have to leave the country.

I can't see any of the affected individuals being too happy about the situation.

In terms of foreign relations I don't think we should cut ourselves off from the rest of the world. We should stay in NATO (for the intelligence and technology sharing benefits if nothing else) we should leave the EU but rejoin EFTA - the free trade area - and apply to join NAFTA - the North American Free Trade Association. This gives us good trading capacity without being ruled by foreigners or forced to take their surplus population.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Nationalist

[kara gee]

Then expect the standard of living available in Burma.

VMR.

What persecuted by the Chinese? Or very poor 3rd world?

I'm just talkin futuristic stuff where we are reaching human potential with advanced technologies (non oil based). I personally think we've already advanced too far to slip back into a stone-age or to live with 3rd world standards. Our knowledge, education and drive doesn't just disappear. I just can't see a sustainable future for our country if we just carry on as we are doing now. Maybe my non-import, export rationale needs further thought, but our reliance on other countries for all our stuff doesn't make much sense. It would make more sense to have less stuff, but what you do have is made here. (But herein lies the problem of what raw materials we could use for future technologies).

Also in the poor countries where they are not desperately exploited by the west, their levels of happiness are way above ours so long as they have a plentiful food-source and a home.

[jackalope]

Also in the poor countries where they are not desperately exploited by the west, their levels of happiness are way above ours so long as they have a plentiful food-source and a home.

So why isn't there mass immigration from the developed world to the third world if this is case? Why don't people move from London or San Francisco to Ethiopia or Pakistan?

[kara gee]

So why isn't there mass immigration from the developed world to the third world if this is case? Why don't people move from London or San Francisco to Ethiopia or Pakistan?

Perhaps because they've been dessimated by wars or famine. They're not good countries to use as examples.

Why not use countries like Seychelles, Carribbean, Thailand, Malasia, Fiji, Philippines, areas of Central and South America etc?

Why is there no mass immigration from UK to those countries? How's about Language barrier, religions, social complexities (no matter how hard you try, it's difficult to fully integrate). Family and friends. Would you want to leave everybody back here?

There are some that can deal with all of the above, but not that many hence no mass migration.

[kara gee]

Fewer bags of hot air posting threads on the internet about Fvck all as they stop being able to afford the connection fee.

No need to be awful. Just after a bit of a chat. That's all.

[Nationalist]

So why isn't there mass immigration from the developed world to the third world if this is case? Why don't people move from London or San Francisco to Ethiopia or Pakistan?

There is quite a drift to the 3rd world, especially the countries with nice weather and beaches, Bali, Thailand, India etc. Also Spain, Oz and New Zealand.

Earning in a rich country and spending in a poor one is rather attractive.

[Executive Sadman]

Kick out all the foreigners who have arrived over the past 5 or 6 years from the EU and force the chavs to do their jobs.

Put all the folks in prison in chain gangs to build roads and pick up litter, garden roadsides etc.

Raise all rates of income tax 10%.

Leave the EU, reclaim our seas and use the military against anyone who steals our fish.

[piece of paper]

Kick out all the foreigners who have arrived over the past 5 or 6 years from the EU and force the chavs to do their jobs.

Put all the folks in prison in chain gangs to build roads and pick up litter, garden roadsides etc.

Raise all rates of income tax 10%.

Leave the EU, reclaim our seas and use the military against anyone who steals our fish.

Pinko-liberal.

p-o-p

[Johnny Storm]

Fewer bags of hot air posting threads on the internet about Fvck all as they stop being able to afford the connection fee.

I remember that time with fondness. When a computer cost £1200 + the scum just werent about. If you dated someone off the net you knew they at least had a job / money and were intelligent enough to actually work a computer.

Now days its just full of scum that you wouldnt mix with in any other way given the choice. Bit like England generally.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Johnny Storm

[Godley]

What persecuted by the Chinese? Or very poor 3rd world?

I'm just talkin futuristic stuff where we are reaching human potential with advanced technologies (non oil based). I personally think we've already advanced too far to slip back into a stone-age or to live with 3rd world standards. Our knowledge, education and drive doesn't just disappear. I just can't see a sustainable future for our country if we just carry on as we are doing now. Maybe my non-import, export rationale needs further thought, but our reliance on other countries for all our stuff doesn't make much sense. It would make more sense to have less stuff, but what you do have is made here. (But herein lies the problem of what raw materials we could use for future technologies).

Also in the poor countries where they are not desperately exploited by the west, their levels of happiness are way above ours so long as they have a plentiful food-source and a home.

Yes you need to give it some further thought, your ideal is idealistic.

Britain needs the raw materials we don't have and you have to convert them into something people want. It's called trade and without it (trade) we would indeed be a 3rd world nation, hence why they are 3rd world because they do not trade.

The 'happy' 3rd world nations are that happy they all want to live here, I guess that goes some way as to answer the happiness question.

To trade you also need to protect your trade, hence armies, politics and alliances.

To arrive at your ideal you need to understand human nature, humans are selfish parasites = Capitalism. You can't change the way were pre-programmed, if you think we can then tell me where you live when we have this 3rd country of yours because I am going to come round and take it all off you, whilst you are off with the fairies hugging trees. There is always someone bigger and badder than you...........ask anyone in a 3rd world country.

[jackalope]

There are some that can deal with all of the above, but not that many hence no mass migration.

Plenty seem to be able to deal with it moving in the opposite direction despite, according to you, moving to a less happy country.

[whiterabbit]

Barak Obama and Gordon Brown are shown a time machine which can see 100 years into the future. The both decide to test it by asking a question each. Barak goes first

"What will the USA be like in 100 years time"

The machine whirrs and beeps and goes into action and gives him a printout, he reads it out "The country is in good hands under the new president, crime is non-existent, there is no conflict, the economy is healthy. There are no worries"

Gordon Brown thinks "Its not bad this time machine, I'll have a bit of that" so he asks "What will Britain be like in 100 years time?"

The machine whirrs and beeps and goes into action, and he gets a printout. But he just stares at it.

"Come on Gordon" says Barak, "Share what it says"

"I can't he says! Its all in Arabic!"

[Jadoube]

Kick out all the foreigners who have arrived over the past 5 or 6 years from the EU and force the chavs to do their jobs.

Put all the folks in prison in chain gangs to build roads and pick up litter, garden roadsides etc.

Raise all rates of income tax 10%.

Leave the EU, reclaim our seas and use the military against anyone who steals our fish.

Damn dolphins

[barrabus]

So why isn't there mass immigration from the developed world to the third world if this is case? Why don't people move from London or San Francisco to Ethiopia or Pakistan?

Because the are to racist in Ethiopia and Pakistan.

[lulu]

As a population we are happier, we earn a lot less and own a lot less stuff. But we live close to our families and friends,

This is what most of my disilusion with modern life boils down to, this constant desire for buying ever increasing amounts 'stuff' people happy - whether this is a new car or fancy handbag or the latest video game.

People today seem to have to want everything now and are not prepared to put the work in to get it. I was dismayed recently that many boardgames were being redesigned to be quicker to play as people no longer had the attention spans to play the traditional versions.

Morons who live of microwave meals who claim they have not got the time to cook proper food annoy me too - most of the time they do little else than watch TV. Peoples quality of life is being eroded and simple (and free) things like spending time as a family/friends playing a game or enjoying a meal have dissapeared.

[Concrete Jungle]

Well we have not had a mad thread for a while

[sammysnake]

1. immediate withdrawal from the European Union

2. Scrap trident, scrap all nuclear deterrents

3. UK Armed forces to demob. All activities overseas not including crown territories to be illegal in new constitution

4. An new English parliament based on morality and ethics. Religion will not be represented in the new parliament

5. Devolution to be brought forward, Scotland will no longer be in the UK

6. Massive increase in taxes, virtually free public transport, NHS to be part funded with personal insurance

7. New constitution to ensure allegiance to humanity, not the Queen

8. All forms of religious teaching within school will be banned.

[Pindar]

In terms of foreign relations I don't think we should cut ourselves off from the rest of the world. We should stay in NATO (for the intelligence and technology sharing benefits if nothing else) we should leave the EU but rejoin EFTA - the free trade area - and apply to join NAFTA - the North American Free Trade Association. This gives us good trading capacity without being ruled by foreigners or forced to take their surplus population.

+1

[blankster]

I would bring back a rigid class structure and the deferential society where every man knew his place!

Edited May 22, 2009 by blankster

[Snow Birds]

Something topical and hopefully positive for this lovely Friday.

I see this global economic crash as a great thing. It's woken us up to unsustainable economic models, banking and businesses.

In the future we will stop looking at interminable economic growth as a good thing, and look more introsectively at how we can live sustainably. We will become a country of self-reliance. Importing and exporting nothing. (ok, may seem far-fetched due to nearly everything we touch is either foreign made or made from oil).

Borders are closed for immigration.

Land laws are relaxed for us to be able to de-centralise, build our own homes and communities.

Huge political reform. All political decisions are voted for, not made by single party.

Huge benefits reforms. We look after our eldery, disabled, and handicapped with respect and compassion. other benefits claimants have to work for their financial assistance.

We do not pay for other people to have children. (i have kids btw, and have just recieved another £190 for getting pregnant. This is on top of the £2k per year in child benefit and child tax credits and I think it's wrong).

We are responsible for ourselves and our families futures.

As a population we are happier, we earn a lot less and own a lot less stuff. But we live close to our families and friends, are self-reliant and children are safe playing in their local community

My ideal future is of a simpler more rural Britain.

What's yours?

We like your vision but let's get real. The first thing you have to do is get rid of the current ruling elite who are doing very nicely thank you and don't give two hoots about you. They have all the money and most of the guns so that isn't going to be easy or pretty. Further: sorry to say it, but most of the population are as thick as a brick and won't help you. The real answer is to quit urging others to provide your utopia. Move out into the country (not necessarily your own). Grow and raise your own food and make a start at it. You don't need much land. We have raised piles of beef, chicken, turkey and goose. We can grow our entire vegetable supply and done it all on less than two acres. If you are prepared to abandon beef (we did) you can do it for much less work on one acre. Our meat and eggs are totally organic (like real organic not supermarket, maybe organic). There are things you can do to earn a bit of regular money but you won't need very much. Take full advantage of the system the elite have set up to provide the serfs with beer, pizza and TV so they don't riot and live the life you dream of. It is entirely possible and realistic and if enough people do it you will have your community utopia if not, you will discover that it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing, it only matters what you are doing. How big is a community? How long is a piece of string?

[No Teacher - No Guru]

I don't think anything will change in any major way, this isn't the apocalypse or the dawn of a new age.

There have been recessions/ depressions for as long as there has been trade.

There isn't one answer.

There isn't a cabal working behind the scenes.

There are just lots of people muddling along hoping things will work out.