Another Five Years Of Brown ?

[Johnny Storm]

This is the meat on the bones of my previous post.

Although it is tempting. Can you imagine what it would be like. Compulsary ID cards, DNA, cameras everywhere. Internet monitored, cars tracked everywhere they go.

[Berk-hater]

No, the SNP took power in the Scottish Parliament after 8 years of a labour/libdem coalition. They have not taken power in Westminster. Even by your standards they took power after 10 years, not 12.

I think here the problem is that you underestimate the importance the Scottish people give to Holyrood compared to Westminster. They lost to the SNP at Holyrood, not at Westminster.

Sorry, but you're losing me! The BRITISH government for the past 12 years has been Labour. This thread is about the BRITISH prime minister, Gordon Brown, and whether he'll win another term. The fact that in Scotland you can vote for an SNP candidate is unlikely, in the main, to affect that. I'm sure that British people living in Scotland give Holyrood more importance than they do Westminster, but for the majority of British people it's pretty irrelevant.

[Guest anorthosite]

Ah, yes. The "inflation has been at 10% since 1997 and 'they' have covered it up" argument. I remember double digit inflation very well and today is nothing like then.

Yes, and its a valid argument, the inflation figures have been fiddled for years. Previous inflation figures do not excuse this.

Low interest rates may be "bad" for some, but I'd still prefer it to 10% plus

Ah, argument by extremes, eh? How about a sensible interest rate, one that restricts excessive borrowing and allows some room to manoeuvre in touch economic times? Or is that too much to ask for from your beloved labour?

After all, we don't want house prices to get out of control do we?

[andykn]

I remember both the snow (I walked to work; most didn't bother where I am) and the tories.

With regard to the former, my recollection is that the decision re the buses was taken on health and safety grounds by the head of TfL and had nothing whatsoever to do with Boris.

That's like saying you can't blame Gordon Brown for Darling's budget. Boris runs TFL and I don't think H&S law has changed significantly since the last time it snowed in London.

With regard to the the Tories, aren't they the people who took a country that had just had a rescue loan from the IMF and turned it into one of the most dynamic economies in the world, tamed inflation, and curbed the power of unelected trade unions? They will have to repeat at least two of these feats if they win the next general election; I hope they kept the manual on how its done!

There's no more assets for them to sell off to give us the capital to live on for a few years.

And I'd hate to see unemployment and/or VAT double again.

[bomberbrown]

Although it is tempting. Can you imagine what it would be like. Compulsary ID cards, DNA, cameras everywhere. Internet monitored, cars tracked everywhere they go.

...and with any luck, it will never be forgotten from generation to generation to generation.

That's the bit where I'm coming from. Let's just get this nasty medicine over and done with.

[Berk-hater]

But I would argue that, in 1997, we did.

Actually I agree with you on that, maybe what I should have said is a "government they were pleased with" !

[davemb]

andykn is right , - interest rates should be ten percent

[shindigger]

Joanna Lumley has just described Broon as a "brave man".

[Guest anorthosite]

Sorry, but you're losing me! The BRITISH government for the past 12 years has been Labour. This thread is about the BRITISH prime minister, Gordon Brown, and whether he'll win another term. The fact that in Scotland you can vote for an SNP candidate is unlikely, in the main, to affect that. I'm sure that British people living in Scotland give Holyrood more importance than they do Westminster, but for the majority of British people it's pretty irrelevant.

Labour have often relied on their Scottish MPs to get bills through Westmister. Without them they are in a lot of trouble.

Scotland has an alternative mainstream party for people to vote for which in all probability will reduce their support in Scotland, therefore reducing their support in Westminster.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Five more years of Brown... it could still yet happen, you have been warned.

You talking about your drug habit, right?

[mattyfc]

Brown appears to have completley lost it. He could barely string a sentance together on PM questions yesterday and I think he is feeling the strain. I really can't see him lasting much longer. I do think it is possible for labour to win the next election though.

However, they will first have to get rid of Brown and secondly realise that it is debt and not living within our means that has got us in to this mess. Endless borrowing will not solve anything and will only cause an even worse crash in the future. They need a credible plan to cut public expenditure so it does not exceed public income and borrowing is reduced. Pretty basic you would think.

[Berk-hater]

Joanna Lumley has just described Broon as a "brave man".

That's like my other half telling me I'm a "big" man. She's after something, probably shoes. I shouldn't take much notice.

[Guest anorthosite]

Joanna Lumley has just described Broon as a "brave man".

He is, getting up to face David Cameron each week. If I'd screwed up the country like he has I wouldn't have the balls to do it.

Brave, but stupid & incompetent.

Actually, ignore that, he's just a self righteous arrogant pr1ck

[Guest anorthosite]

You talking about your drug habit, right?

I hope so. I dread to think what other euphamisms could be involved.

[andykn]

Yes, and its a valid argument, the inflation figures have been fiddled for years. Previous inflation figures do not excuse this.

But that makes that fallacy so obvious. You can aruge that inflation today is, say nearer 10% than 3%, but price rises since 1997 don't bear this out long term. 10% pa since 1997 would make prices in 1997 about a third what they are today. Was a pint of beer less than a pound in 1997? Petrol 33p a litre? Even house prices didn't go up that much to peak.

Ah, argument by extremes, eh? How about a sensible interest rate, one that restricts excessive borrowing and allows some room to manoeuvre in touch economic times? Or is that too much to ask for from your beloved labour?

After all, we don't want house prices to get out of control do we?

How about around 6% stable for 10 years? That about right? Double digit interest rates were not unusual for the Tories.

[Johnny Storm]

...and with any luck, it will never be forgotten from generation to generation to generation.

That's the bit where I'm coming from. Let's just get this nasty medicine over and done with.

This is assuming the measures are undone. Do you trust the Tories to give us our freedoms back? They may well do, and I have often voted for them, but I think it is extremely risky to give something away thinking someone will give it back.

[bagsos]

That's like saying you can't blame Gordon Brown for Darling's budget. Boris runs TFL and I don't think H&S law has changed significantly since the last time it snowed in London.

What?? Is Boris's "sin" in your book therefore to devolve decision making on transport to the man who runs TfL, and not wake up every morning and check if the buses are running that day?

There's no more assets for them to sell off to give us the capital to live on for a few years.

And I'd hate to see unemployment and/or VAT double again.

On assets, lets see...........there's some banks, Network Rail, some hospitals, lots of housing, lots of offices (the building I am sat in now is government owned and let to a private company).

On unemployment - its already ahead of where it was in 1997 and rising fast; hardly the Tories fault

On VAT, it can't double as there is an EU ceiling rate of 25% IIRC. It will go up a lot though, whoever wins the next election; my guess is 22% in 2 stages and 5% VAT on food

[Brave New World]

You forget that in Scotland we have a mainstream party that we can vote for as an alternative to Labour that are not involved in anyway with the expenses scandal of Westminster. In fact the party already currently form a minority government up here.

Yes and Salmon is nearly as bigger fool as Brown. North Atlantic alliance....whoops there goes Iceland and Ireland.

In fact can't you take all of your scots croonies back over the Wall, they have done enough damage.

Oh and if Salmon refers to north sea revenue........which fookin companies paid to find and drill the resources.

[Berk-hater]

Labour have often relied on their Scottish MPs to get bills through Westmister. Without them they are in a lot of trouble.

Scotland has an alternative mainstream party for people to vote for which in all probability will reduce their support in Scotland, therefore reducing their support in Westminster.

I don't necessarily argue with that. The question then is whether or not the election will be close enough that the depletion of Scottish Labour MPs will be a factor in forming a mojority government in westminster. Scotland will never be a big Tory voter, nor Wales for that matter, so the Tories won't gain massively. The issue will be to what extent will Labour lose support in those areas.

[Guest pioneer31]

Give me a Labour recession (interest rates 0.5%, inflation 3%) over a Tory one any day.

Ah but it's not you see, it's Global!

[Guest pioneer31]

I don't want Labour to win the next Election, even though I'd like them to stew in their own juice.

Reason - they'll carry on their insane lending so that the UK will not recover for the next 100 light years. They'll use up the entire planets supply of paper to print their way out of the mess (which will fail anyway)

[Pindar]

Ah, yes. The "inflation has been at 10% since 1997 and 'they' have covered it up" argument. I remember double digit inflation very well and today is nothing like then.

Low interest rates may be "bad" for some, but I'd still prefer it to 10% plus

So the fact that house prices tripled in a decade doesn't count as hyperinflation then?

[Guest anorthosite]

I don't necessarily argue with that. The question then is whether or not the election will be close enough that the depletion of Scottish Labour MPs will be a factor in forming a mojority government in westminster. Scotland will never be a big Tory voter, nor Wales for that matter, so the Tories won't gain massively. The issue will be to what extent will Labour lose support in those areas.

Oh, labour will get wiped out across the country. But as this is a thread based on the assumption that labour might, in a parallel universe (what promted this thread, did the OP see the new Star Trek film?!?), get in at the next election, then it seems a valid point to raise.

[andykn]

andykn is right , - interest rates should be ten percent

:-)

Perhaps David Cameron could put that in his manifesto "We'll raise interest rates to 10% to save the economy and prevent the next house price boom"

[Guest anorthosite]

But that makes that fallacy so obvious. You can aruge that inflation today is, say nearer 10% than 3%, but price rises since 1997 don't bear this out long term. 10% pa since 1997 would make prices in 1997 about a third what they are today. Was a pint of beer less than a pound in 1997? Petrol 33p a litre? Even house prices didn't go up that much to peak.

Most of the prices you quote are swayed by tax. How about houses and food?

How about around 6% stable for 10 years? That about right? Double digit interest rates were not unusual for the Tories.

They weren't low enough. House prices "got out of control" - interest rates should have risen to compensate. Or do you enjoy the mess we're in now?