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laurejon

Tony Blairs Beloved Catholic Church

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How odd, Gordon Brown a man with religion so close to his heart and no police knocking on doors investigating the decades of abuse carried out by the Catholic Church.

How absolutely disgusting, and humiliating for those involved to see no prosecutions.

THOUSANDS of children were subjected to chronic abuse at Catholic Church-run institutions in Ireland, a damning report has found.

Church leaders and government officials turned a blind eye to the sexual, physical and emotional abuse to protect their reputations and shuffled abusers around to offend again.

The Child Abuse Commission report chronicles the horrific treatment of 35,000 children at the hands of priests, nuns, and lay people in schools and care homes over 60 years.

After a decade-long inquiry, the commission found the sexual abuse of boys was "endemic" while girls were also preyed upon and subjected to fierce beatings and humiliation.

More than 800 individuals at 216 institutions had been involved in abuse that ranged from children being kicked and scalded to cases of rape.

But to the anger of victims, the 3,500-page, five-volume report will not lead to the prosecution of offenders, some of whom moved to Australia.

The head of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he was "profoundly sorry" for the hurt caused to some of society's most vulnerable children.

The report says Education Department officials were rarely informed of the abuse, but colluded in a culture of silence whenever they did become involved.

Offenders were given dispensation of their vows and were able to gain work as teachers at state schools within days.

"When confronted with evidence of sexual abuse, the response of the religious authorities was to transfer the offender to another location where, in many instances, he was free to abuse again," the report found.

"The safety of children in general was not a consideration."

Church leaders did not "listen to or believe" victims who complained of sexual abuse, and some remained unwilling to confront the issue even today.

Among the religious orders involved were the Christian Brothers and Sisters of Mercy, which both issued renewed apologies to victims yesterday.

One former Christian Brother had carried out a 40-year campaign of sex abuse with the knowledge of a parish priest, a bishop, two communities of nuns, the Education Department and police, the report said.

Given the false name of Brother John Brander in the report, he was repeatedly been moved between schools because of abuse claims but was able to continue working until his retirement in the mid-1980s.

"By choosing to take the easy way out, the persons and bodies with knowledge of Mr Brander's activities must bear heavy responsibility for the damage he did to children throughout his career and following his retirement," the report said.

Victims lashed out at the failure to name and shame abusers, other than those already convicted, and were alarmed that no prosecutions would result from the report.

"I'm very angry, very bitter, and feel cheated and deceived," said John Walsh, a victim and spokesman for Irish Survivors of Child Abuse.

"I would have never opened my wounds if I'd known this was going to be the end result.

"It has devastated me and will devastate most victims because there is no criminal proceedings and no accountability whatsoever."

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How odd, Gordon Brown a man with religion so close to his heart and no police knocking on doors investigating the decades of abuse carried out by the Catholic Church.

How absolutely disgusting, and humiliating for those involved to see no prosecutions.

Not to downplay any of this, but how is this GB's problem? Isn't this Ireland (not Northern Ireland)?

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Oops I thought it was posted in Off Topic.

Its Gordon Browns job to ensure the police raid the Catholic Church in the UK and find many of the priests and teachers and workers who were involved in this, and are currently residing in the UK.

The police with all their powers given to them for Anti Terrorist operations should have no problem rooting them out.

In addition the police that turned a blind eye in Ireland should be prosecuted, and those who are retired have their pensions suspsended, and their assets siezed prior to serving a life in prison.

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Guest anorthosite

The Catholic Church appears to be little more than the world's largest peadophile ring.

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There have been plenty of prosecutions for sexual abuse.

A lot of this stuff is exaggerated - people grew up in hard times, and when they got access to the welfare state they compared and contrasted, saw the difference and started calling for compensation. Which would you prefer - pupils receiving corporal punishment, or pupils suing teachers?

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There have been plenty of prosecutions for sexual abuse.

A lot of this stuff is exaggerated - people grew up in hard times, and when they got access to the welfare state they compared and contrasted, saw the difference and started calling for compensation. Which would you prefer - pupils receiving corporal punishment, or pupils suing teachers?

I would like to see criminal investigations taking place, and those repsonsible brought before a Jury. It is the Jury's job to decide who is guilty, and who walks free, not the job of the Catholic Church who are witholding information relating to a crime that potentially affected 35,000 children and young adults.

The Catholic Church had a responsibilty as Citizens to report any criminal activity whithin their ranks, and if they dont then they themselves as a institution should be brought before our courts and closed down.

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Not to downplay any of this, but how is this GB's problem? Isn't this Ireland (not Northern Ireland)?

I suppose it depends on your outlook in life as to whether it concerns you/us.

It certainly concerns me.

Some of these children could be living in our streets. Of course we care about them.

But also the catholic church has a worldwide influence. It's about time the stood up and were counted.

My father grew up in a Roman Catholic orphanage. Although he claims to not have been abused (because he considers abuse to be sexual) he had a dreadful upbringing with punishments, beatings and cruelty. He will admit himself that they used to pray to get ill so they could be looked after by the (kind) nurses.

No I'm sorry I believe this is important to us all.

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Aren't most institutions that deal with kids attractive to paedophiles? I have 3 paedos in my village and one of them spends his whole time trying to get 'close' to kids through various clubs, etc. Madness.

I suspect all churches and youth organisations are infested with warpos. I remember a couple of my PE teachers were sickos - staring at kids in the showers, etc. - nobody ever had enough to pin on them though.

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There have been plenty of prosecutions for sexual abuse.

A lot of this stuff is exaggerated - people grew up in hard times, and when they got access to the welfare state they compared and contrasted, saw the difference and started calling for compensation. Which would you prefer - pupils receiving corporal punishment, or pupils suing teachers?

I don't think that it is you know.

But even if it is. Surely one case of abuse is not acceptable to us and we need to let people know that this is the case.

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The Catholic Church appears to be little more than the world's largest peadophile ring.

It certainly looks like that doesn't it?

If I were a member of that organisation I would prefer to have this all out in the open and then show what I am going to do about making sure that this does not happen again.

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If I were a member of that organisation I would prefer to have this all out in the open and then show what I am going to do about making sure that this does not happen again.

Funnily enough, the model they are using has now been adapted by many other organisations as being best practice.

All of this needs to be put into context, others were complicit, others carried out said acts. This was also common in state run institutions of the time, indeed many organisations regardless of who ran them.

Though things certainly happened, don't forget the stream of these 'factual' abuse/ hard life based books that have proven to be fiction. Every drop wears away the stone.

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Guest anorthosite
Though things certainly happened, don't forget the stream of these 'factual' abuse/ hard life based books that have proven to be fiction. Every drop wears away the stone.

That is so insulting to every victim of this hideous organisation.

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Funnily enough, the model they are using has now been adapted by many other organisations as being best practice.

All of this needs to be put into context, others were complicit, others carried out said acts. This was also common in state run institutions of the time, indeed many organisations regardless of who ran them.

Though things certainly happened, don't forget the stream of these 'factual' abuse/ hard life based books that have proven to be fiction. Every drop wears away the stone.

Children how have suffered deserve justice, and it incumbant on our police force to investigate all claims of abuse, and in particular when it has come from Children.

These evil people perpetrated these crimes because they knew the children had no voice, well today those children as adults have a voice, and have the legislation in place to bring down the Catholic Church if it fails to own up and report the names to the police of those it harboured.

For me, until the Church own up and come forward with the names of the abusers, they have no business in modern society and deserve to have their churches burnt to the ground as a mark of their evil.

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That is so insulting to every victim of this hideous organisation.

Are you talking about government run institutions where abuse occurred or just Catholic ones? Or Scout groups? Or sports clubs?

Are you also saying that when people write stories about what happened to them at the hands of their parents or at an institution claiming it to be fact when it is fiction doe not influence opinion?

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Are you talking about government run institutions where abuse occurred or just Catholic ones? Or Scout groups? Or sports clubs?

Are you also saying that when people write stories about what happened to them at the hands of their parents or at an institution claiming it to be fact when it is fiction doe not influence opinion?

Allegations by Children should always be investigated, for too long people have turned a deaf ear to children and thats why they have fallen prey to these evil people.

All cases should be taken up, and its clear that the sheer numbers involved not just in the UK but the world puts the Catholic Church in shame.

And if they wish to redeem themselves before they go to heaven, then they need to own up and report those they have been protecting.

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Children how have suffered deserve justice, and it incumbant on our police force to investigate all claims of abuse, and in particular when it has come from Children.

These evil people perpetrated these crimes because they knew the children had no voice, well today those children as adults have a voice, and have the legislation in place to bring down the Catholic Church if it fails to own up and report the names to the police of those it harboured.

For me, until the Church own up and come forward with the names of the abusers, they have no business in modern society and deserve to have their churches burnt to the ground as a mark of their evil.

Para 1 - agree

Para 2 - yes, but much of the abuse was not committed by the clergy - so if the Catholic Church is considered responsible for the actions of others then so is that government who failed to take action at the time

Para 3 - I think people should be named, but as comment above, we are not just talking about the clergy (though I suspect you think we are)

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Guest anorthosite
Are you talking about government run institutions where abuse occurred or just Catholic ones? Or Scout groups? Or sports clubs?

Yes, them as well. However, none appear to have been so universally complicit in the abuse, over such a wide geographic area, or for so long.

Are you also saying that when people write stories about what happened to them at the hands of their parents or at an institution claiming it to be fact when it is fiction doe not influence opinion?

No. But I fail to see your point. The Catholic Church, amongst other organisations which are not as widespread, has covered up, condoned and protected child abuse for decades, possibly centuries. They have shipped off priests that have been found out to the third world to stop the story breaking, regardless of the consequences. They have witheld evidence from the police, instead dealing with it in such a way that the church does not look bad.

To attempt to down play it by saying some people have written fake stories about it is, as I said, an insult to every victim. Are you a catholic by any chance?

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Allegations by Children should always be investigated, for too long people have turned a deaf ear to children and thats why they have fallen prey to these evil people.

All cases should be taken up, and its clear that the sheer numbers involved not just in the UK but the world puts the Catholic Church in shame.

And if they wish to redeem themselves before they go to heaven, then they need to own up and report those they have been protecting.

Yes, I agree and given that it is so vile, I presume you will apply this to all instituations that have been complicit? Or perhaps you are just against the Catholic Church rather than abuse of children?

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I don't think that it is you know.

But even if it is. Surely one case of abuse is not acceptable to us and we need to let people know that this is the case.

The one case I had direct involvement in was a sad story - reminded me of Pat McCabe's Butcher Boy - but nothing you could really blame others for. Apart from that, I reckon the worst stuff has been dealt with and the rest should be filed away under "Different times".

The point is, What is abuse? I'm not talking about the sexual stuff, but the hard knocks and prison-style regime - up at dawn, working all day for nothing, getting whipped if you step out of line, crappy food.

Two questions -

- should they be judged by our standards thirty years after the event?

- are our standards that much better?

Obviously our standards are better, but lack of corporal punishment seems to be causing a lot of problems in schools.

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Yes, them as well. However, none appear to have been so universally complicit in the abuse, over such a wide geographic area, or for so long.

No. But I fail to see your point. The Catholic Church, amongst other organisations which are not as widespread, has covered up, condoned and protected child abuse for decades, possibly centuries. They have shipped off priests that have been found out to the third world to stop the story breaking, regardless of the consequences. They have witheld evidence from the police, instead dealing with it in such a way that the church does not look bad.

To attempt to down play it by saying some people have written fake stories about it is, as I said, an insult to every victim. Are you a catholic by any chance?

Yes I am. And it is possible you are, or were or perhaps in one of the anti-Catholic denominations. It is a big organisation so numbers will be higher than for others but there has been massive abuse across all institutions, remember Jersey? And many other state institutions. Believe me, I think all people involved should be brought to justice, but what I find time and time again, is that it is only those related to the Catholic Church that get major pubilicity and constant vitriol.

I have met and spoken to a victim of sexual abuse, you might have seen him on TV. This was at the hands of a CoE clergyman. And a girl who was raped by her father. And I read daily of continued abuse throughout society.

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Guest anorthosite
Yes I am. And it is possible you are, or were or perhaps in one of the anti-Catholic denominations.

I'm not any denomination. Stop trying to reduce this to some kind of childish religious rivalry.

It is a big organisation so numbers will be higher than for others but there has been massive abuse across all institutions, remember Jersey? And many other state institutions. Believe me, I think all people involved should be brought to justice, but what I find time and time again, is that it is only those related to the Catholic Church that get major pubilicity and constant vitriol.

The catholic church gets the vitriol because it cares more about itself than the victims. Others may have done this but the catholic church has taken it to new levels.

I have met and spoken to a victim of sexual abuse, you might have seen him on TV. This was at the hands of a CoE clergyman. And a girl who was raped by her father. And I read daily of continued abuse throughout society.

Yes, doesn't make it ok for anyone to abuse children. You have to admit its pretty cold blooded to send a priest with a long history of child abuse to the third world, where he'll be able to get away with it, so he doesn't get found out.

Stop trying to make the church the victims.

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Sorry, make that two girls. The second was an Army family case and happened over several years. This went to court but he did not go to jail and stayed with the family. I thought that odd to say the least.

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Yes, I agree and given that it is so vile, I presume you will apply this to all instituations that have been complicit? Or perhaps you are just against the Catholic Church rather than abuse of children?

Yes it should apply to any organization that practices this.

Its pretty hard to accept that the pope prior to his current role was responsible for keeping sexual abuse allegations under warps. He personally headed this up and went to all sorts of lengths and resources to ensure that allegations remained under wraps and that none of the widespread abuse was ever publicized nor offenders challenged.

I guess this quality attribute was one of the reasons that he got a crack at the title. He would also have a pretty good dossier that would keep him empowered.

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I'm not any denomination. Stop trying to reduce this to some kind of childish religious rivalry.

Religious rivalry. What are you on about? You seem to have the religious rather than general abuse obsession.

The catholic church gets the vitriol because it cares more about itself than the victims. Others may have done this but the catholic church has taken it to new levels.

New levels? Looking like an obsession again.

Yes, doesn't make it ok for anyone to abuse children. You have to admit its pretty cold blooded to send a priest with a long history of child abuse to the third world, where he'll be able to get away with it, so he doesn't get found out.

And cold blooded in the case this week about the known child abuser teenager sent to that foster family? Or does this not count as it is not the Catholic Church. Surely, you can't be obsessed can you?

Stop trying to make the church the victims.

Don't think I've done this. Explain.

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