Altrincham/hale/halebarns

[R K]

Actually I have an old school friend who married a well heeled bbc radio presenter. As you say, she is refusing to move from hampstead to salford, Just comes up on the train occasionally. But still someone is buying these places round here for crazy prices ...

This area always been expensive / desirable going way back to the Indust. revolution. (or further if you look at the Dunham / Tatton estates & the development of Altrincham). It's an eclectic mix of professions, media, business owners, entertainment etc as well as normal (!) types - builders, tradesmen etc like anywhere else.

BBC move irrelevant. BBC / ITV have been in Manc for 50 years or so anyway. That was all estate agent guff.

[bonse]

supply and demand. thats what drives house prices.

not all media types choose to live in what they would consider right on areas notting hill/chorlton/didsbury. some choose the hills or the countryside.

[Nomadd]

..she is refusing to move from Hampstead to Salford

Which is a bit like saying "she is refusing to move from Monaco to Pyongyang."

[Venger]

supply and demand. thats what drives house prices.

not all media types choose to live in what they would consider right on areas notting hill/chorlton/didsbury. some choose the hills or the countryside.

You do realise there was supply and demand in 2008 as well, don't you?

Supply and demand does not drive house prices.

What remaining buyers are able and willing to pay, and sellers agree to accept for a transaction, moves house prices.

Up when transactions agreed at a new higher price (and lifting up values of surrounding homes) as new market prices achieved. Down when transactions agreed at a lower prices (and impacting on value of surrounding houses, especially so when a few sales are made at lower prices).

[R K]

Supply and demand does not drive house prices.

What remaining buyers are able and willing to pay, and sellers agree to accept for a transaction, moves house prices.

That's the definition of demand & supply

In 07/08 demand disappeared due to the collapse of the banking system / 'credit crunch' & ensuing Great Recession.

[Venger]

That's the definition of demand & supply

In 07/08 demand disappeared due to the collapse of the banking system / 'credit crunch' & ensuing Great Recession.

It's the look at the "pent-up demand" and "population growth" always keeping up house prices argument, that bugs me.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Venger

[R K]

It's the look at the "pent-up demand" and "population growth" always keeping up house prices argument, that bugs me.

Those weren't the terms used but in any event household formation, population growth/demographics clearly play an important role. Where do you suppose FTBs come from?

[Venger]

Those weren't the terms used but in any event household formation, population growth/demographics clearly play an important role. Where do you suppose FTBs come from?

FTBs.... I thought they came from BoMaD and HTB.

To a point I agree with you, where population growth is accompanied by a steady percentage of people who have income in the economy to meet and increase on current asking prices. Or where that population growth is external bringing in capital (immigration) with them.

And of course supply is restricted, with few owners, and just about enough buyers meeting supply with proceedable demand at high prices. It's mixed up in my head to be honest (supply-demand~), but as I read elsewhere today... this has something in it.

“Population keeps rising. That means more demand.”

This is a totally wrong statement. If the supply is one house, if you have a billion penniless people who desire that house greatly, the price is zero, not a million. A high number of penniless people do not constitute demand. It is better to have 2 millionaire competing on a house than 30 million people with no money.

I hope that the explanation is clear enough for you to realize that a large number of people would not constitute DEMAND. Otherwise, India with over 1 billion people would be very rich indeed. Also, Switzerland, with a fraction of India population would be very poor because of low demand.

[R K]

FTBs.... I thought they came from BoMaD and HTB.

To a point I agree with you, where population growth is accompanied by a steady percentage of people who have income in the economy to meet and increase on current asking prices. Or where that population growth is external bringing in capital (immigration) with them.

And of course supply is restricted, with few owners, and just about enough buyers meeting supply with proceedable demand at high prices. It's mixed up in my head to be honest (supply-demand~), but as I read elsewhere today... this has something in it.

If we live on mars we'd be martians. Is there a point to the quote?

[Venger]

If we live on mars we'd be martians. Is there a point to the quote?

Probably not any point in the quote.

Just like a martian, I'm like a Stranger in a Strange Land. Along with many others questioning house prices to value.

[united4ever]

Have been looking around lock road, place road, Lawrence road at some of the houses like this:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-46192595.html

not such great family homes I can imagine but for the price and proximity to Altrincham cofe primary, john Leigh park etc it may be the best you can get for 200 - 220k. What are the forums views on these houses....little outdoor space or off road parking but 3 beds and some have 2 bathrooms. The streets and houses themselves do have a bit of character as well.

[Venger]

Can't find the relevant post, but this house did sell again.

Bought at £399K September 2013, put on rental market, then back up for sale, and just sold at £420K. Buyer probably just about broke even?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=40590527&sale=51148049&country=england

Remember what happens to prices when credit is tight, and prices are falling, and few willing/able buyers around, to bid on probate/must-sell homes? Probably just a blip because the area is always special and in demand back from the domesday book, and credit/demand for credit doesn't really come into it.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=29977973&sale=44386289&country=england

Edited June 3, 2014 by Venger

[Andy T]

I can't seem to quote your post Venger.

£420k.... £85k increase since 2011, they may of put the extension on, but it's still a narrow tunnel of a house, with no hall access to the rooms without walking through them all. Period charm yes but poor square footage, also I can't see where the third bedroom is, only two bedrooms on the first floor, is it one of the storage cupboards?? Ridiculous even for Hale.

[Venger]

I can't seem to quote your post Venger.

£420k.... £85k increase since 2011, they may of put the extension on, but it's still a narrow tunnel of a house, with no hall access to the rooms without walking through them all. Period charm yes but poor square footage, also I can't see where the third bedroom is, only two bedrooms on the first floor, is it one of the storage cupboards?? Ridiculous even for Hale.

Thanks Andy. I had not studied the floorplan, so good to read and I will accept your findings.

I think the buyer in 2011 added the extension. Not sure what occurred with the Sept 2013 buyer who held it for just a few months, but looks to have probably broken even selling it on at £420K.

Sale Date Property Price Paid

11 Apr 2014 Semi-Detached, Freehold £420,000

23 Sep 2013 Semi-Detached, Freehold £399,000

28 Apr 2011 Semi-Detached, Freehold £334,000

Confusing to me.... has it gone straight back onto the rental market yet, again?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-43767613.html

First Listed on Rightmove: 24 April 2014 (41 days ago)

Full description

AVAILABLE 14TH APRIL 2014 A beautifully presented three bedroom semi detached cottage within walking distance of Hale Village.

[Snozzle]

Almost 300k for a 'B street' terrace now. Admittedly one of the best but still...

I'm not even looking at houses now. I'm waiting until after the election and will see how things pan out. I refuse to be panicked into buying by EE's and their manipulative open house days.

[howarden]

Have been looking around lock road, place road, Lawrence road at some of the houses like this:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-46192595.html

not such great family homes I can imagine but for the price and proximity to Altrincham cofe primary, john Leigh park etc it may be the best you can get for 200 - 220k. What are the forums views on these houses....little outdoor space or off road parking but 3 beds and some have 2 bathrooms. The streets and houses themselves do have a bit of character as well.

I like the area, the Linotype houses aren't huge and parking must be tight, but they look homely and a lot of the houses and front gardens are very well kept. I think I prefer the feel of the area to the other side of Manchester road e.g. Navigation Road, Gladstone, Hawarden and it's only 5 minutes further walk to town or the Metrolink. That might be down to John Leigh Park which really outshines Navigation Rec and makes the lack of outside space less of a problem. I think the area is going through a bit of a demographic change away from older retired residents to younger, from a recent walk around there were a lot of skips full of old fittings and furnishings.

If you value character they're the only real choice at the cheaper end of the Altrincham market. If you don't mind a plainer house then the surrounding streets offer better value. There was a semi on a neighbouring street with a flat roof extension for £220k posted on here a few months ago that I thought looked OK, other posters may disagree. I think if you could get a Linotype house with 3 beds in good modern condition for £200k it wouldn't be the worst buy in Altrincham.

[united4ever]

I like the area, the Linotype houses aren't huge and parking must be tight, but they look homely and a lot of the houses and front gardens are very well kept. I think I prefer the feel of the area to the other side of Manchester road e.g. Navigation Road, Gladstone, Hawarden and it's only 5 minutes further walk to town or the Metrolink. That might be down to John Leigh Park which really outshines Navigation Rec and makes the lack of outside space less of a problem. I think the area is going through a bit of a demographic change away from older retired residents to younger, from a recent walk around there were a lot of skips full of old fittings and furnishings.

If you value character they're the only real choice at the cheaper end of the Altrincham market. If you don't mind a plainer house then the surrounding streets offer better value. There was a semi on a neighbouring street with a flat roof extension for £220k posted on here a few months ago that I thought looked OK, other posters may disagree. I think if you could get a Linotype house with 3 beds in good modern condition for £200k it wouldn't be the worst buy in Altrincham.

Thanks, yeah, we decided against it in the end - just don't offer the space we require as a young family.

What do you think of this one? - very nearby but very different, masses less character and characterless street but loads more space.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-30537957.html

Seems like 250k cannot buy even a traditional 3 bed semi near park road metro in timperley anymore and Altrincham even less so.

[howarden]

I like the area, the Linotype houses aren't huge and parking must be tight, but they look homely and a lot of the houses and front gardens are very well kept. I think I prefer the feel of the area to the other side of Manchester road e.g. Navigation Road, Gladstone, Hawarden and it's only 5 minutes further walk to town or the Metrolink. That might be down to John Leigh Park which really outshines Navigation Rec and makes the lack of outside space less of a problem. I think the area is going through a bit of a demographic change away from older retired residents to younger, from a recent walk around there were a lot of skips full of old fittings and furnishings.

If you value character they're the only real choice at the cheaper end of the Altrincham market. If you don't mind a plainer house then the surrounding streets offer better value. There was a semi on a neighbouring street with a flat roof extension for £220k posted on here a few months ago that I thought looked OK, other posters may disagree. I think if you could get a Linotype house with 3 beds in good modern condition for £200k it wouldn't be the worst buy in Altrincham.

Thanks, yeah, we decided against it in the end - just don't offer the space we require as a young family.

What do you think of this one? - very nearby but very different, masses less character and characterless street but loads more space.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-30537957.html

Seems like 250k cannot buy even a traditional 3 bed semi near park road metro in timperley anymore and Altrincham even less so.

I know someone who lives in one of those houses on Devonshire Road and saw some workmen a couple of weeks ago chucking a load of stuff into a skip on that house. (I'm doing something through work where I agreed to walk 10,000 steps per day for 10 weeks so have got to know Alti a lot better).

Upsides: More space than anywhere comparable and not a bad layout if you can use the bottom room as a second reception rather than a bedroom. Also surprisingly they say the sound insulation between the houses is better than the older houses they've lived in. That house in particular also has full height ceilings in the upstairs rooms.

Downsides: No access to the back garden other than through the house, I notice the floor boards squeaking a lot when I visit and they said that when they put their car in the garage there was no room for anything else.

I considered buying one when it was up about 18 months ago, but it sold before I got too far. £260k looks a bit ambitious when you compare to what others have recently sold for (same houses around the corner on Princes Road as well).

[united4ever]

I know someone who lives in one of those houses on Devonshire Road and saw some workmen a couple of weeks ago chucking a load of stuff into a skip on that house. (I'm doing something through work where I agreed to walk 10,000 steps per day for 10 weeks so have got to know Alti a lot better).Upsides: More space than anywhere comparable and not a bad layout if you can use the bottom room as a second reception rather than a bedroom. Also surprisingly they say the sound insulation between the houses is better than the older houses they've lived in. That house in particular also has full height ceilings in the upstairs rooms.Downsides: No access to the back garden other than through the house, I notice the floor boards squeaking a lot when I visit and they said that when they put their car in the garage there was no room for anything else.I considered buying one when it was up about 18 months ago, but it sold before I got too far. £260k looks a bit ambitious when you compare to what others have recently sold for (same houses around the corner on Princes Road as well).

Yep, i wouldn't pay over stamp duty threshold and probably not 250. Think I could live there happily but the area feels very transient ( flats opposite) with lots of rental properties around there. I wonder if i sold after 10 years if it would have kept up with market prices. Yeah, viewed one on Princes road months ago, almost identical but worse street than Devonshire.

[howarden]

...

Seems like 250k cannot buy even a traditional 3 bed semi near park road metro in timperley anymore and Altrincham even less so.

I have a sort of scale in my head of what you should get for your money in North Altrincham and Timperley, based on not extended, modern fittings and good condition I think...

£110k A cheaper 2 bed flat e.g. Budenburg or Townfield Gardens (interesting block as you can't btl here)

£140k A mid level 2 bed flat e.g. One of the blocks on Barrington road, a 2 bed terrace around Brunswick Road, 3 bed in Oldfield Brow proper

£160k A 3 bed semi in the Heyes Road bit of Timperley or Brunswick Road in Alti, 2 bed Linotype

£180k A 3 bed in the bulk of Timperley near the metro or in Alti around Navigation Road, Gladstone Road, etc... and the surrounding bits of Oldfield Brow

£200k A 3 bed in the bigger or better looking houses around Hazel Road, a 3 bed Linotype or a bigger 3 bed on the surrounding streets

£220k A smaller 3 bed detached around Medway Crescent

Then it all gets a bit complex.

Hopefully someone disagrees with me or can extend to the areas they know well. These are the numbers at which I would start to see value, so not the bottom of any dip.

[Venger]

Altrincham: the highest house prices outside the south-east

The Guardian ‎- 17 hours ago

What makes the Greater Manchester suburb such a popular location? Posh shops, nice houses, good schools … and the F-Factor.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2014/jun/30/altrincham-highest-house-prices-outside-south-east

[bonse]

presumably Altrincham for the purposes of this survey, includes hale and bowdon, but excludes altrincham itself

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

presumably Altrincham for the purposes of this survey, includes hale and bowdon, but excludes altrincham itself

You mean aldi, tk Maxx, poundland, home bargains, b&m etc Edited July 1, 2014 by 7 Year Itch

[bonse]

in yesterdays times(I think) there was an article about alderley edge being cheshires equivalent to mayfair. how anyone can compare inner london with a small town in cheshire.

I wonder how many residents of alderley edge can afford to live in mayfair.

[Andy T]

The f-factor being...?