Tax Abuser Of The Week

[1source]

Maybe the child could have been saved if some of these overpaid Nu-Lab t>ssers did their ****in jobs properly in the first place you sanctimonious prat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Careful or you'll create another job for a 'Trauma counsellor'.

That person will then need a Manager, a Deputy director, a Director, an HR administrator, a PR advisor, a bid officer, a 'Lifelong skills' consultant, and an outsourced IT project, to stop them from doing anything useful.

Would this be funnier if it wasn't true? I'm not sure.

[theChuz]

And that would bring back the child who died, would it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a f*cking stupid thing to say BL, i half expected something better from you.

[MrB]

There are contributions to the country which are far more valuable than an economic one - money isn't the most important thing by a very long way.

As for taking responsibility when things go wrong, the Director of Social Services for Suffolk County Council in one case where things went horribly wrong  about three or four years ago said, quite rightly, that resigning was the easy way out, staying to face up to what had happened and ensuring it never happened again was his moral responsibility.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you were being 'ironic' here.

I've seen many examples of high paid individuals in the public sector getting paid for doing nothing, while at the other end of the pay scale they work their fingers to the bone for a pittance.

I used to work for the NHS, and this comment is spot on. I was a Senior Information Analyst (there were about 6 Senior Analysts, and four 'normal' Analysts, an Information manager, Clinical Information Manager, Data Protection Manager, two full time DBA's and several hundred grand went to a consultancy firm for good measure).

Anyway, while a colleague and I did most of the work, the job of one of the Senior Analysts was to forward our spreadsheets on the relevant govt stats monitoring bodies. Tough life.

The clerks etc were on absolute shite money. The Information Army were earning 25-45 grand.

How many patients did we treat? None. That number under the heading 'deductions' on your payslip, that's where it goes. A really valuable contribution to society.

[Quokka]

But isnt it our taxes that pay these crazy wages. Does anyone have a good case for someone getting paid over 100K who has not been that effective?  I am jealous, I am an engineer and all I am seeing is the systematic decline of manufacturing in the UK. Can we really survive with call centres and civil servant workers. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sums up the UK job market to me.

I'm also an engineer, and like many from the former engineering hubs of the UK I'm working overseas.

On my last working trip to UK, 11 years ago, I failed to hold down steady work. With two kids I had little choice but to leave.

This thread has brought back memories of that time, as the local press was full of gov't jobs with descriptions that were meaningless to me. Sadly they generally paid more than a qualified engineer could expect, if he could find work.

[Bluelady]

What a f*cking stupid thing to say BL, i half expected something better from you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As sensible as suggesting that the Director of Social Services forfeited his salary. I see nothing's changed around here - put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever.

[Quokka]

As sensible as suggesting that the Director of Social Services forfeited his salary.  I see nothing's changed around here - put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

isn't something I'd want to entrust to someone who was content to be paid £40k

money isn't the most important thing by a very long way

debating with yourself an alternative?

[Guest muttley]

I see nothing's changed around here - put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A tactic you are not averse to using,Bluelady.

Would you like to show me where I said it was?

Jesus, the posters here are either thick as pigshit or can't read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dog]

As sensible as suggesting that the Director of Social Services forfeited his salary.  I see nothing's changed around here - put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blue Lady

The problem is that you are defending the indefensible. Public servants who are lazy, stupid and greedy have their snouts so deep in the trough that they are bringing the country to its knees. People's pensions are being taxed so that these parasitic busy bodies can play social engineering with our lives. Old people have to pay more than £1000 a year in council taxes so that these worthless employees can buy a new car every year.

When officials screw up, they make grotesque excuses as to why they want to stay on the gravy train. If they were genuinely contrite, why not accept a pay cut? Time after time public servants screw up big projects but they never get the sack or even demoted. They have no pressure and no real responsibilities. There is always more tax payers money to bail them out.

Edited June 18, 2005 by dog

[Bluelady]

Very clever, Quokka - take the responses to several different points completely out of context and try to construct a reasonable arguement from them. You were never head of the debating society, were you? You wouldn't do too well in a logic exam either.

There are for sure, public servants to whom everything you say applies, dog, but it doesn't apply to all of them by any means. The thought of holding the post of a director of social services or the chief executive of a hospital makes me blanch, no way would I want that amount of stress and a six figure salary wouldn't even begin to compensate for it.

Edited June 18, 2005 by Bluelady

[dog]

debating with yourself an alternative?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Smart post!

[Quokka]

Very clever - take the responses to several different points completely out of context and try to construct a reasonable arguement from them.  You were never head of the debating society, were you?  You wouldn't do too well in a logic exam either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whearas you're obviously a genius to assess this from one post.

[Bluelady]

Whearas you're obviously a genius to assess this from one post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm certainly showing evidence of a more logical mind that you are.

[theChuz]

As sensible as suggesting that the Director of Social Services forfeited his salary.  I see nothing's changed around here - put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever."

As for taking responsibility when things go wrong, the Director of Social Services for Suffolk County Council in one case where things went horribly wrong  about three or four years ago said, quite rightly, that resigning was the easy way out, staying to face up to what had happened and ensuring it never happened again was his moral responsibility.

Surely the moral duty would be to pay back the wages for all the time when things went horribly wrong, and then pay to put it right from his further wages..?

Funny things morals! (especially on other peoples money)

And that would bring back the child who died, would it?

You brought up morality in such a way that i would question your morality and that comming from me is saying alot.

Nothing can bring back a child that has died, and to use it as a retorhical statement in the way that you did is a pathetic attempt as justifing your previous "resigning is the easy way out" statement.

Have you ever thought that its not all the people that post here that are wrong its the way in which you come across as such a plank.

As for people swearing to/at you ever wondered why that is.. maybe its not that the rest of the world are uneducated louts maybe is just that you manage to continously to p*ss people off.

Ive not been "personal" with anyone else on a internet forum before, so congratulations your the first.

You probably care about as much as i do about words traded on a forum (not alot) but dont question why people take objection to you when you come out with such daft statements.

Edited June 18, 2005 by theChuz

[Bluelady]

"put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever."

You brought up morality in such a way that i would question your morality and that comming from me is saying alot.

Nothing can bring back a child that has died, and to use it as a retorhical statement in the way that you did is a pathetic attempt as justifing your previous "resigning is the easy way out" statement.

Have you ever thought that its not all the people that post here that are wrong its the way in which you come across as such a plank.

As for people swearing to/at you ever wondered why that is.. maybe its not that the rest of the world are uneducated louts maybe is just that you manage to continously to  p*ss people off.

Ive not been "personal" with anyone else on a internet forum before, so congratulations your the first.

You probably care about as much as i do about words traded on a forum (not alot) but dont question why people take objection to you when you come out with such daft statements.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was a question, not a rhetorical statement - as for the term "uneducated louts", you used it, not me. I manage to conduct a debate without recourse to swearing and name calling. Thank you for proving my point about the inability of several posters here to give any consideration to an alternative viewpoint with out dismissing it as "daft".

[Quokka]

"put forward an alternative view and you get called names and sworn at, no attempt at any reasoned debate whatsoever."

You brought up morality in such a way that i would question your morality and that comming from me is saying alot.

Nothing can bring back a child that has died, and to use it as a retorhical statement in the way that you did is a pathetic attempt as justifing your previous "resigning is the easy way out" statement.

Have you ever thought that its not all the people that post here that are wrong its the way in which you come across as such a plank.

As for people swearing to/at you ever wondered why that is.. maybe its not that the rest of the world are uneducated louts maybe is just that you manage to continously to  p*ss people off.

Ive not been "personal" with anyone else on a internet forum before, so congratulations your the first.

You probably care about as much as i do about words traded on a forum (not alot) but dont question why people take objection to you when you come out with such daft statements.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said, probably wasted though..

[dog]

Very clever, Quokka - take the responses to several different points completely out of context and try to construct a reasonable arguement from them.  You were never head of the debating society, were you?  You wouldn't do too well in a logic exam either.

There are for sure, public servants to whom everything you say applies, dog, but it doesn't apply to all of them by any means.  The thought of holding the post of a director of social services or the chief executive of a hospital makes me blanch, no way would I want that amount of stress and a six figure salary wouldn't even begin to compensate for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only pressure that a director of scial services has to contend with is taking money under false pretences. These people should be made to go and work in the fields. That is all they are good for.

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Can't believe you lot are sat indoors handbagging each other on what is the lushest day of the year yet!

[theChuz]

Can't believe you lot are sat indoors handbagging each other on what is the lushest day of the year yet!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

to damn hot for me, im like a vampyre i only go out at night time.. hey not only that beverly hills cop is on!

Edited June 18, 2005 by theChuz

[delboypass]

im sitting inside now because ive completed burnt myself - sounds like a FTB buying a house scenario!!!

[1source]

I've got b****y hay fever, so under house imprisonment.

As sensible as suggesting that the Director of Social Services forfeited his salary.

Actually I said it was his moral duty, its up to Bluelady to say why its not sensible, given that his high pay is apparently a reflection of his responsibility. And I thought she mentioned that anyway money wasn't the most important thing. Still waiting for her bank details though.

Trying to tie this up with house prices now...

A man agrees to paint a BTL's walls magnolia in return for payment.

He messes it up totally, and causes damage to the rest of the house, risking the valuation.

-Should he be paid for his work so far?

-Should he be paid to repair the damage he has caused?

-In deciding whether to pay him, should we consider if he meant well?

-Should we choose the same person to now put in laminate flooring?

Or, should he pay for the damage caused, and then reduce his bill in return for the rental void caused, once the walls are finally painted and the house price has accordingly gone up?

Should a person paid with taxpayers money be judged to a different standard? Because his poor customers have no choice?

The thought of holding the post of a director of social services or the chief executive of a hospital makes me blanch, no way would I want that amount of stress and a six figure salary wouldn't even begin to compensate for it.

But on the other hand the same thought doesn't stress me out at all, in fact I'll do it for just 99k. If anything goes wrong, I'll stay on twice as long for twice the money.

What does stress me out is the fact that my customers can go elsewhere anytime, market and technology trends can make my services obsolete, competitors are pricing me down etc. and my income is totally dependent on how I deal with all of these.

[Dames]

Human dignity seems to count for little these days. People are taxed into poverty and then given charity by Gordon Brown.

Hear bloody hear.

Dames

[laurejon]

The Government are running a scam, whereby you go to work on their behalf paying them your money and they hand back a few crumbs. If you did find yourself one of the minority who grafted like a black man on a prison chain gang and saved then you will be punished with the confiscation of what would term your illgotten gains.

We all know what medicine should be administered to cure the ills of today, do we have the stomach to take it.

[Phaedrus]

Interesting debate.

I see a lot of these jobs being criticised because they are not productive. Well, what about Doctors, they are paid a good salary from the public purse, yet they do not produce anything.

[zzg113]

Well, what about Doctors, they are paid a good salary from the public purse, yet they do not produce anything.

They produce a healthy and able workforce, ie they keep the worker ants in tip-top condition.

Edited June 19, 2005 by zzg113

[Dave Ja Vu]

Director of Children's Service

Sunderland City Council

Tyne & Wear

£120k

We'll expect you to improve as well as integrate service delivery principally across health, education and social services. We need you to find new ways of engaging young people, championing genuine consultation exercises.

Corporate Director - Opportunities Cardiff

CARDIFF COUNTY COUNCIL

Wales

Circa £110,000

Cardiff is a dynamic, innovative and forward-looking City with an impressive and strong background of achievement. Home to the National Assembly for Wales, we are creating a City of national significance and a European Capital where people choose to live, work and visit and in which companies want to invest.

Corporate Director - Adult Social Care

Borough of Telford and Wrekin

Shropshire

circa £100K

This role is integral to how we will further develop as an Excellent Council and also to how you can establish yourself as an influential figure both locally and nationally.

Corporate Director - Customers, Community & Culture

Borough of Telford and Wrekin

Shropshire

circa £100K

We are looking for clear strategic thinkers who will provide a clear sense of direction, optimism and purpose at corporate and service levels. You will value and celebrate the diversity of our communities.

Five Group Directors

Swindon Borough Council

Wiltshire

c.£120k plus benefits

We're seeking five talented and ambitious leaders to head up the new structure and drive the next stage of our transformation. If you're lucky enough to join our team, this will be a career-shaping move.

Chief Executive

Chorley Borough Council

Lancashire

c. £100,000 plus benefits

You will provide inspiring leadership, creating a culture of openness, self-awareness and self-management and championing continuous improvement across every discipline.

Director for Adult Care and Community Services

Suffolk County Council

Suffolk

£110,000

As Director for Adult Care and Community Services you will challenge and reshape our organisation. You will strive to ensure the best possible outcome for the people and groups you champion.

Corporate Director Environment

Somerset County Council

Somerset

£115,350

As a Corporate Director working in Somerset, we need you to embrace and develop the bigger picture. Leading a diverse range of services encompassing, for example, highways, transportation, rural services, waste, strategic planning.

Director of Children's Services

Dorset County Council

Dorset

£114k plus benefits

You'll develop and deliver a new vision for children's services. Taking charge of the strategic development of the service, and building lasting strategic partnerships, you'll deliver accountable, integrated services.

Director General, Lifelong Learning and Skills

KPMG

c.£125,000 (plus opportunity for a substantial performance bonus)

The Director General, Lifelong Learning and Skills will support Ministers in developing government policies for lifelong learning and skills and will take the lead in converting those policies into successful delivery.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so what's the alternative? who do you ger to do these jobs?

btw isn't KPMG a private company?