Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Recommended Posts

Britain is not immune to the danger of serious social unrest and public disorder as a result of the economic crisis, a report has warned.

Globally, bouts of social unrest are set to disrupt economies and topple governments over the next two years, said the Economist Intelligence Unit.

It named 95 countries as being at high or very high risk, with the UK rated as being at "moderate" risk.

But the document also made it clear that this was "far from a clean bill of health".

In previous years, western European states would almost automatically feature in the "low risk" category.

"Popular anger around the world is growing as a result of rising unemployment, pay cuts and freezes, bailouts for banks, and falls in house prices and the value of savings and pension funds," said the EIU paper, entitled Manning the Barricades.

"As people lose confidence in the ability of governments to restore stability, protests look increasingly likely. A spate of incidents in recent months shows that the global economic downturn is already having political repercussions.

"This is being seen as a harbinger of worse to come. There is growing concern about a possible global pandemic of unrest."

The most serious economic downturn since the 1930s is driving up poverty and unemployment and fuelling demands for protectionist policies which could deepen the recession into a lengthy depression, said the report.

Much depends on how US President Barack Obama responds to pressure to defend American jobs and companies against foreign imports, it said.

Linkl : http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_32472...ws.topheadlines

It's about time the british got BUSY!

Link to post
Share on other sites
"Popular anger around the world is growing as a result of rising unemployment, pay cuts and freezes, bailouts for banks, and falls in house prices and the value of savings and pension funds," said the EIU paper, entitled Manning the Barricades.

Tough luck. People were all too happy to accept the very good economic times. Many will now have to get accustomed to having to alter their spending habits, endure a lower standard of living, and value money more.

People like myself saved hard, took few holidays, ran an older car, and generally lived within our means, as house prices shot upwards year after year. No one cared about the anger there. Too busy spending, bragging, or just enjoying the high-life.

On the whole, if you've not saved money over the years, spent too freely in the expectation the good times could never end, accepted years of incredible HPI as normal, gambled in to BTL during the past 10 years, MEWed to spend, held too much of your investments in shares looking for higher returns linked to companies who benefited from the credit-expansion - then much of the anger should be directed at yourselves.

Ok there are some things to be angry about and things which need to change, but what do you think serious unrest is going to achieve?

Younger people might have fewer high-paid job opportunities but there should be much cheaper housing they can save and buy, and perhaps over time new opportunities we can't see fully see. Market need to correct and also find new solutions over time and it will be painful. The young can't be locked out forever by having share-values, property values restored to peak, and high paid jobs magicked-up for all those who are now being hit with the economic backlash.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Tough luck. People were all too happy to accept the very good economic times. Many will now have to get accustomed to having to alter their spending habits, endure a lower standard of living, and value money more.

People like myself saved hard, took few holidays, ran an older car, and generally lived within our means, as house prices shot upwards year after year. No one cared about the anger there. Too busy spending, bragging, or just enjoying the high-life.

On the whole, if you've not saved money over the years, spent too freely in the expectation the good times could never end, accepted years of incredible HPI as normal, gambled in to BTL during the past 10 years, MEWed to spend, held too much of your investments in shares looking for higher returns linked to companies who benefited from the credit-expansion - then much of the anger should be directed at yourselves.

Ok there are some things to be angry about and things which need to change, but what do you think serious unrest is going to achieve?

Younger people might have fewer high-paid job opportunities but there should be much cheaper housing they can save and buy, and perhaps over time new opportunities we can't see fully see. Market need to correct and also find new solutions over time and it will be painful. The young can't be locked out forever by having share-values, property values restored to

peak, and high paid jobs magicked-up for all those who are now being hit with the economic backlash.

To a lot of what you stated, I would very much agree with on moral terms.

But when human instinct Kicks in, family going without etc., then anger of the fallen will mutiply and will have to have an outlet.

It's human nature reguardless of right or wrongs (they have never experienced or even know of your plight, but their situation has change from their perspective, and they will qet ANGRY).

Edited by tuggybear
Link to post
Share on other sites
Obama has proven himself to be useless and out of his depth, surrounded by useless idiots like Geithner. So there is no hope :)

The president of the United States goes on Jay Leno and names his internal advisors as being akin to Simon Cowell? Even in jest, FAIL

scanners1_1600.jpg

Edited by Tonkers
Link to post
Share on other sites
To a lot of what you stated, I would very much agree with on moral terms.

But when human instinct Kicks in, family going without etc., then anger of the fallen will mutiply and will have to have an outlet.

It's human nature reguardless of right or wrongs (they have never experienced or even know of your plight, but their situation has change from their perspective, and they will qet ANGRY).

We'll see. I hope most people in the US are more pragmatic, will accept their losses and adapt, providing the very basics like shelter (even if it's in tents for some), and food are available for everyone. The complete breakdown of law and order and all functions of the economy to cease isn't anything I'd want my kids to live through, whether I was rich or poor. That outcome could be an new age of horror. You have to accept the losses, make changes, and life has to go on.

How angry did the US public get in the Great Depression? Did they riot and attack the system? Great Britain has known heavy deflation before, which must have seemed like the end of the world for some, but has got through it.

"Labouring mankind had in the last years, and throughout Great Britain, sustained a prolonged and crushing series of defeats. I had heard vaguely of these reverses; of whole streets of houses standing deserted by the Tyne, the cellar doors broken and removed for firewood; of homeless men loitering at the street-corners of Glasgow with their chests beside them; of closed factories, useless strikes, and starving girls. But I had never taken them home to me or represented these distresses livingly to my imagination.

A turn of the market may be a calamity as disastrous as the French retreat from Moscow; but it hardly lends itself to lively treatment, and makes a trifling figure in the morning papers. We may struggle as we please, we are not born economists. The individual is more affecting than the mass. It is by scenic accidents, and the appeal to the carnal eye, that for the most part we grasp the significance of tragedies. Thus it was only now, when I found myself involved in the rout, that I began to appreciate how sharp had been the battle. We were a company of the rejected; the drunken, the incompetent, the weak, the prodigal, all who had been unable to prevail against circumstances in one land, were now fleeing pitifully to another; and though one or two might still succeed, all had already failed. We were a shipful of failures, the broken men of England."

The Amateur Emigrant. Robert Louis Stevenson. (Travel memoir of his journey from Scotland to California in 1879-1880.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
We'll see. I hope most people in the US are more pragmatic, will accept their losses and adapt, providing the very basics like shelter (even if it's in tents for some), and food are available for everyone. The complete breakdown of law and order and all functions of the economy to cease isn't anything I'd want my kids to live through, whether I was rich or poor. That outcome could be an new age of horror. You have to accept the losses, make changes, and life has to go on.

How angry did the US public get in the Great Depression? Did they riot and attack the system? Great Britain has known heavy deflation before, which must have seemed like the end of the world for some, but has got through it.

2 years ago I'd agree with all of this. But moral hazard has run riot. If the authorities fail to apply the laws properly to crooks and fraudsters, and impoverishes the rest of us to their benefit, civil unrest is most definitely called for. It is in the long term interests for our economy and our country

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think as was the case with the rise in the economy, people were too busy getting on with their lives. Its hard to blame those that fell for the wizards spell. They were told No more Boom to Bust, they made their plans based on that very false assumption.

If you have never ever lived in a recession, then it would be hard to understand just how quickly things can tumble and your lot in life becomes worthless.

Yet again this is going to be a time of learning, and there is going to be anger and direct action as was the case in every other recession. I can remember in the last recession that there were riots across Europe, and the evening news labelled them as Anarchists, and Anti Globalisation Terrorists. I would sit there in horror and watch them burning buildings and causing heaps of trouble, and I would have happily watched the troops shoot them. I was told by the media that they were conspiricy theorists, that there was no such thing as Globalisation.

How wrong was I, and how right were they ?

Globalisation is what has failed us, it is the Globalisation project that has caused immense suffering of humanity across the world. Wars, Civil Wars, theft of public assets, the demise of society, and a ideology based on greed and power over and above the wishes of the majority. It could be the case that Globalisation is going to be the demise of our Civilisation as indeed happened with every other civilisation that thought they could rule the world.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Tough luck. People were all too happy to accept the very good economic times. Many will now have to get accustomed to having to alter their spending habits, endure a lower standard of living, and value money more.

People like myself saved hard, took few holidays, ran an older car, and generally lived within our means, as house prices shot upwards year after year. No one cared about the anger there. Too busy spending, bragging, or just enjoying the high-life.

On the whole, if you've not saved money over the years, spent too freely in the expectation the good times could never end, accepted years of incredible HPI as normal, gambled in to BTL during the past 10 years, MEWed to spend, held too much of your investments in shares looking for higher returns linked to companies who benefited from the credit-expansion - then much of the anger should be directed at yourselves.

Ok there are some things to be angry about and things which need to change, but what do you think serious unrest is going to achieve?

Younger people might have fewer high-paid job opportunities but there should be much cheaper housing they can save and buy, and perhaps over time new opportunities we can't see fully see. Market need to correct and also find new solutions over time and it will be painful. The young can't be locked out forever by having share-values, property values restored to peak, and high paid jobs magicked-up for all those who are now being hit with the economic backlash.

Its Good Friday talking here. And you have admitted the anger in you. 'The young cant be locked out forever', any phschologists on here want to work out the age of this poster!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sillybear2
I think as was the case with the rise in the economy, people were too busy getting on with their lives. Its hard to blame those that fell for the wizards spell. They were told No more Boom to Bust, they made their plans based on that very false assumption.

If you have never ever lived in a recession, then it would be hard to understand just how quickly things can tumble and your lot in life becomes worthless.

Yet again this is going to be a time of learning, and there is going to be anger and direct action as was the case in every other recession. I can remember in the last recession that there were riots across Europe, and the evening news labelled them as Anarchists, and Anti Globalisation Terrorists. I would sit there in horror and watch them burning buildings and causing heaps of trouble, and I would have happily watched the troops shoot them. I was told by the media that they were conspiricy theorists, that there was no such thing as Globalisation.

How wrong was I, and how right were they ?

I agree with you there, ignorance is bliss, and that sort of thinking explains why people have labelled people on this site "financial terrorists" because we simply expose the system for what it is, and it ain't pretty.

Try and remember back to what you thought when you first heard this news :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1334694/G8...-shot-dead.html

Edited by sillybear2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 years ago I'd agree with all of this. But moral hazard has run riot. If the authorities fail to apply the laws properly to crooks and fraudsters, and impoverishes the rest of us to their benefit, civil unrest is most definitely called for. It is in the long term interests for our economy and our country

+1

The way the people behaved after Katrina was just the rehearsal. :ph34r:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Its how human societies work. When times are good no one is going to support radical change(much to the frustration of groups like non-mainstream political parties). When times are bad and getting worse eventually the people will get angry and demand serious change.

If we do get that growing anger its going to be interesting to me for this reason: The masses have no clear direction on where to go. There is one group arguing for more socialism. But when the state is already spending 60% of gdp, its hard to see how that path has anywhere to go. And raising taxes would do mass economic damage in this situation.

There another side arguing for less government and more free markets. But the free market just doesn't seem to be generating decent paying jobs for average and below average people - and people point to the absurb abuses going on in the market by executives and upper management. There are millions more who know something is wrong but dont' even claim to know the answers.

To show how far we have to go.. the debate between radical environmentalism and jobs hasn't even started. People are still protesting when anything like an electrical plant is proposed. (Yet protesting in other areas when big layoffs are made elsewhere). The politicians are still pushing new carbon taxes in the face of horrific collapse in industries.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Globally, bouts of social unrest are set to disrupt economies and topple governments over the next two years, said the Economist Intelligence Unit.

Ah, so the "Economist Intelligence Unit" says so? Is this the same "intelligence" unit that failed to spot the bank meltdown, failed to see the end of the boom and failed to see house prices plummeting - until everyone else saw it?

I'm not saying there won't be some unrest, but at the moment if I am in a long queue in a well known bank that cuts its staff and ignores customers in that queue for 20 minutes, all I hear are a few "tuts" and some half baked sighs and heavy breathing. NO-ONE speaks up. If I go to an airport to catch a flight which is cancelled or delayed by several hours and people miss their connections, I do not see riots or even hear raised voices. I occasionally see slightly heated discussions, and they are usually of my making.

It's not that people aren't angry, it's just that they tend to lack the skills necessary to assert themselves effectively, and, not wishing to draw attention or make a scene, their usual reaction is to "tut" just a little louder than usual. This is a peculiarly British habit. Or perhaps just an English one. The English are notorious for failing to complain, or object, or organise themselves into a cogent force.

The last significant "riots" achieved in the UK were the anti poll tax demonstrations against the Thatcher government, and that was a long time ago. But they died out very quickly and if you compare then with now, the situation is far, far worse, with council tax being equally unfair in principle and in practice taking an even larger proportion of tax, since not only is it a tax on already taxed income, but as a proportion of disposable income it is an outrage for most people. Yet I do not see even a hint of a riot about that.

The fact is that the entire UK electorate has been made a patsy all along, for the last 15 years, to this enormous con by banks and lending institutions, egged on by government policy which blatantly encouraged through monetary and fiscal policies the biggest false boom in history. By rights, there should have been riots about this many years ago, but there was too much individual greed about, and those who should have seen through it were too involved in the possibilities of personal profit to seriously object.

And that is the key to the lack of vigorous objections now. Enshrined in almost everyone is a personal part-responsibility for the whole mess, since, instead of seeing the housing bubble as a potential disaster, most saw it as a vehicle for personal gain, and for that reason, the majority are hardly in a position now to throw rotten tomatoes, let alone riot, since they have no moral justification for doing so, and they know it, because they were willing participants in the boom.

For the rest of us, the phlegmatic approach is highly likely to be the default. I think we'd have to be in a wheelbarrow-to-transport-cash scenario and queues to buy bread before there will be much more than a heavy sigh and a few whimpers. Unfortunately the British always speak up after it is too late, and have a long history of rolling over and letting governments and corporations defecate on them from a great height. I see no reason why this is going to change, though one can live in hope.

VP

Edited by VacantPossession
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest UK Debt Slave
I'm not sure they will

The sheep in this country are the stupidest in the world

They just don't get it at all

They don't right now, but they will because the kleptocracy will steal everything from the people to fund itself

This is NOT a sustainable system.

Ultimately, the state knows it. That's why there's a CCTV camera near your home.

The State feels threatened and it is stealing our freedoms and civil liberties in a vain attempt to protect itself

The only thing we can say with any certainty is that the next 20 years are going to be very different from the previous ones

Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (tuggybear @ Mar 21 2009, 03:11 AM)

Recession sparks social unrest

Perhaps this is mainly wishful thinking on your part?

p

If it's wishful thinking then he's not alone. The bizzies seem to be getting ready for a "summer of unrest" as they, rather nostalgically, call it.

Though perhaps it's just their way of trying to screw more money out of the, increasingly threadbare, public purse?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sillybear2
Ah, so the "Economist Intelligence Unit" says so? Is this the same "intelligence" unit that failed to spot the bank meltdown, failed to see the end of the boom and failed to see house prices plummeting - until everyone else saw it?

I'm not saying there won't be some unrest, but at the moment if I am in a long queue in a well known bank that cuts its staff and ignores customers in that queue for 20 minutes, all I hear are a few "tuts" and some half baked sighs and heavy breathing. NO-ONE speaks up. If I go to an airport to catch a flight which is cancelled or delayed by several hours and people miss their connections, I do not see riots or even hear raised voices. I occasionally see slightly heated discussions, and they are usually of my making.

It's a bit more subtle than that, things don't have to go Mad Max in order for profound changes to happen, the present situation is rather akin to the later days of the Soviet union, everyone could see the system was failing and indefensibly morally and intellectually bankrupt. The past 30 years of dogma is over, along with all the amoral selfishness, the next decade is going to look very different to the past decade.

Politicians like Brown are obviously finished and will be removed from power in a little over a year, what we're seeing now is desperate attempts to prop up a failed system, even if they technically achieve some outcomes like printing money to drive longterm interest rates down, it doesn't factor in the grand scheme of things, nobody buys their bull$hit anymore.

Edited by sillybear2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest UK Debt Slave
It's a bit more subtle than that, things don't have to go Mad Max in order for profound changes to happen, the present situation is rather akin to the later days of the Soviet union, everyone could see the system was failing and indefensibly morally and intellectually bankrupt. The past 30 years of dogma is over, along with all the amoral selfishness, the next decade is going to look very different to the past decade.

Politicians like Brown are obviously finished and will be removed from power in a little over a year, what we're seeing now is desperate attempts to prop up a failed system, even if they technically achieve some outcomes like printing money to drive longterm interest rates down, it doesn't factor in the grand scheme of things, nobody buys their bull$hit anymore.

Plenty of people still buy into it

They are institutionalised. They believe absolutely in state solutions.

But the state cannot fix this mess. Only when people have lost their home, their job, their savings and ther pensions will they wake up.

It's gonna happen

It's 'IN THE POST'.............registered mail

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 441 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.