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Mr. Barlows Energy Independence


Kurt Barlow

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HOLA441
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HOLA442
How about an "air source heat system" seems to be similar effiency to ground source but a lot cheaper. Anyone actually used an air source heat system ?

Ground source is superior because the ground temperature stays reasonably stable even when the air temp is bitterly cold. The more heat available in the source, the less work it takes to move some of that heat into your house.

But air source is much less expensive and disruptive to install, and you could always use it to handle heating in milder periods, perhaps supplementing with wood or other alternatives during cold snaps.

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HOLA443
How about an "air source heat system" seems to be similar effiency to ground source but a lot cheaper. Anyone actually used an air source heat system ?

ASHPs are cheaper as you don't need to excavate trenches or drill a bore hole.

The air to water systems are similar to GSHPs as they really require under floor heating or large radiators due to the lower temperature water they produce. There are smaller air to air systems which produce warm air rather than heating water for a central system.

The one problem with ASHPs is that their efficiency drops as air temperature drops. In freezing temperatures they are useless. Their stated efficiency (eg COP of 3) is usually measured at temperatures much higher.

I doubt that you would find an ASHP cheaper than mains gas as a source of heating. Is more economically viable if you use oil or electricity for heating.

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HOLA444

I do like watching the flickering flames on my open fire, although obviously loses most of the heat up the chimney.

I thought of having a wood burner installed can't beat that sort of heat. Just getting enough dry wood cheaply / easily enough for me is the snag to make the outlay effective.

So the air source is not as good as the claims made 3kw out per 1kw in ? oh bugger

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HOLA445
I do like watching the flickering flames on my open fire, although obviously loses most of the heat up the chimney.

I thought of having a wood burner installed can't beat that sort of heat. Just getting enough dry wood cheaply / easily enough for me is the snag to make the outlay effective.

So the air source is not as good as the claims made 3kw out per 1kw in ? oh bugger

You will get 3KW out per 1KW in, but check the temperature at which the unit produces 3KW. It certainly won't produce 3KW close to freezing.

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HOLA446
I know a number of members of the forum enjoy my practical energy independance / tinfoil survivalist threads. I am about to install a woodstove, indeed have mentioned it before. The project will be spread over the next 2-3 weeks as I have some other commitments that get in the way.

However if you would like me to blog the process I will post some piccies with some text and answer questions from those interested.

Any interest, a show of hands would be useful other wise I shall 'blog' it elsewhere.

Mods - feel free to put off topic although a little air play on the main thread would be appreciated.

The Stove is a contemporary type stove - a Westfire 21

To be 100% honest, I would be much more inclined to listen to your gambits if you could at least spell correctly - indenpendEnce not independAnce.

I always suspect the mental rigour of those who have not mastered the spelling of their mother tongue.

Why should I trust such a person's further prognostications?

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HOLA447
To be 100% honest, I would be much more inclined to listen to your gambits if you could at least spell correctly - indenpendEnce not independAnce.

I always suspect the mental rigour of those who have not mastered the spelling of their mother tongue.

Why should I trust such a person's further prognostications?

Well feck off then :)

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HOLA448
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HOLA4410
Kurt- very interested in any and all info.

Also.. you mentioned some kind of vacuum tubes for hot water? What's that then?

Its basically two walls of pyrex glass with a vacuum between the two.

In the middle is a heat rod that accumulates heat and transfers the water flow into manifold at the top.

Vacuum tubes are much more effective in our sort of climate than flat plate collectors.

solar_expansion_2.jpg

solar_tube.jpg

post-10375-1232902705_thumb.jpg

post-10375-1232902854_thumb.jpg

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HOLA4411
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HOLA4412
GSHPs can be an effective way of heating, but they require underfloor heating or much bigger radiators as the water temperature is much lower than that produced by a gas boiler.

The PV panels on your roof are gonna cost a few quid. I don't think one panel would do the job - you would need a few KW of electricity to power the heat pump, and sunlight!

Put it this way, you can install an efficient wood burner for around £3000 if you require flue pipes like Kurt has bought - a GSHP installation would cost at least 4 times this amount.

Agreed and most of the solar electricity is going to come when you don't need to be running the GSHP.

GSHP's are great - if you live in France and have 110% faith in a reliable electricity supply.

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HOLA4413
This is a thread about wood stoves not a convention for grammar nazi's

Those who are able to display a mastery of their mother tongue are, in my experience, more likely to show a mastery of other subjects - science, for instance.

Science is especially concerned with detail. If one cannot master the the detail of one's mother tongue, one has to be sceptical concerning any claimed mastery of any other subject, all of which must, of necessity, be expressed in the mother tongue.

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HOLA4414
Those who are able to display a mastery of their mother tongue are, in my experience, more likely to show a mastery of other subjects - science, for instance.

Science is especially concerned with detail. If one cannot master the the detail of one's mother tongue, one has to be sceptical concerning any claimed mastery of any other subject, all of which must, of necessity, be expressed in the mother tongue.

Nothing of value to add

Switch to ignore.......

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HOLA4415
If the shit hit the fan and gas/electric were either unavailable, unaffordable, unreliable then all the scrap wood, dead wood and other sources would be quickly collected and burned. There are THOUSANDS of wood burning stoves in homes, plus fireplaces that hardly ever get used. If they were used in anger ALL the available wood would be hoovered up in no time and burned.

I can verify this as fact from first hand experience: I lived in a semi rural pit village in south yorks during the 1984 miners strike. The NCB cut off the tonne of coal per quarter that the miners usually got, and that winter was cold. All available wood was indeed hoovered up until they reached the point of felling trees decades old.

The pit houses of the era were notoriously energy inefficient though; draughty, single glazed (frost on the inside in really cold snaps!), little or no loft or cavity wall insulation etc.

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HOLA4416
Those who are able to display a mastery of their mother tongue are, in my experience, more likely to show a mastery of other subjects - science, for instance.

Science is especially concerned with detail. If one cannot master the the detail of one's mother tongue, one has to be sceptical concerning any claimed mastery of any other subject, all of which must, of necessity, be expressed in the mother tongue.

Absolute twaddle. Much of science needs no recourse to "mother tongue" at all.

Simple snobbery on show here I'm afraid.

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HOLA4417

If anyones intrested im putting together a forum for UK diy renewable projects, ie. home made wind turbines solar heaters, could also add in wood burners?

I still need to change the web address to something more appropriate but here is the temporary one, LinkY

There should be some photos up tonight of my wind turbine im building at the moment, which should hopefully give me 1kw in good winds, if all goes well

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HOLA4418
Nothing of value to add

Switch to ignore.......

Your prerogative entirely.

I am neither dismayed nor surprised. Please, just help yourself. All I can add is that in my experience one is better off listening to those who diasagree with one's pet theories than dismissing them outright.

However, it's entirely your choice whether you dismiss those who disagree and listen to those who agree. I think that that kind of approach could lead to an unbalanced pov but that's your choice.....

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HOLA4419
Those who are able to display a mastery of their mother tongue are, in my experience, more likely to show a mastery of other subjects - science, for instance.

Science is especially concerned with detail. If one cannot master the the detail of one's mother tongue, one has to be sceptical concerning any claimed mastery of any other subject, all of which must, of necessity, be expressed in the mother tongue.

Here we go again:

.....mother tongue, in my experience, are more likely to show......

.....Science is concerned especially with detail.......

.........any mastery claimed................

......................of necessity, all of which must be expressed.............

I was delighted to see that President Obama restated his oath in order to ensure that it was incorrect.

p-o-p

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HOLA4420
If anyones intrested im putting together a forum for UK diy renewable projects, ie. home made wind turbines solar heaters, could also add in wood burners?

I still need to change the web address to something more appropriate but here is the temporary one, LinkY

There should be some photos up tonight of my wind turbine im building at the moment, which should hopefully give me 1kw in good winds, if all goes well

Nice one Mr Blobby :)

I have saved link. I will put up some general stuff in a few weeks time. Am a bit busy for next 2 weeks.

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HOLA4421
To be 100% honest, I would be much more inclined to listen to your gambits if you could at least spell correctly - indenpendEnce not independAnce.

I always suspect the mental rigour of those who have not mastered the spelling of their mother tongue.

Why should I trust such a person's further prognostications?

Oh dear. We really should be very careful if we are going to make comments like this.

indenpendEnce not independAnce.

Now where did that extra 'n' come from

:D

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HOLA4422
I can verify this as fact from first hand experience: I lived in a semi rural pit village in south yorks during the 1984 miners strike. The NCB cut off the tonne of coal per quarter that the miners usually got, and that winter was cold. All available wood was indeed hoovered up until they reached the point of felling trees decades old.

The pit houses of the era were notoriously energy inefficient though; draughty, single glazed (frost on the inside in really cold snaps!), little or no loft or cavity wall insulation etc.

When I go away I can turn my heating off as I have super insulated the loft tanks. I just leave a convestor heater on frost stat

I went away for a week last winter and the house was still 12 degrees on my return which is just about manageable. About the only heat contribution would have been from the refrigerators.

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HOLA4424
Guest anorthosite
Your prerogative entirely.

I am neither dismayed nor surprised. Please, just help yourself. All I can add is that in my experience one is better off listening to those who diasagree with one's pet theories than dismissing them outright.

However, it's entirely your choice whether you dismiss those who disagree and listen to those who agree. I think that that kind of approach could lead to an unbalanced pov but that's your choice.....

I love it when that happens... :lol:

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HOLA4425

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