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Something Or Nothing?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7841273.stm

An attempt is to be made at Westminster to make it legally binding for shops and businesses in England to accept Scottish banknotes. At the moment traders south of the border can refuse to take such notes. A private member's bill is being launched in the Commons by Shadow Scottish Secretary David Mundell. It would require all providers of goods or services in the UK which accept Bank of England notes to take Scottish banknotes on an equal basis.

In Scotland, three banks retain the right to print their own money - the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank. These banknotes are not backed by the force of law anywhere in the UK.

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Never going to happen.

First you cannot force someone to sell you something, shopkeepers merely offer it and can refuse. Thats a fundamental legal principle and overcoming that would cause serious issue with any type of selling.

Second issue is that Scottish bank notes are not legal tender.

These banknotes are not backed by the force of law anywhere in the UK.

They are not valid in Scotland. The MP proposing this sound like a idiot.

Edited by Peter Hun

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Do they have some kind of license to print the Scottish notes?

Are the notes backed by, I dunno, gilts? British pounds held by the Scottish banks that print them?

All seems slightly odd to me. Why don't the welsh print their own notes, or do they??

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Sounds like a publicity-hungry prat.

I was offered the odd one in my change when I lived in London and always said no. How does anybody know what a genuine one looks like?

Time for a counter-bill to withdraw these banks' superannuated right to print money.

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It is a Mickey Mouse currency, Scottish banknotes are not even legal tender in Scotland so if their devolved Government does not have sufficient confidence in it to make it legal tender there then why should I accept a Scottish banknote here in Kent?

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It smells of popularist pitching to the last of the rump of the rotting Labour vote in Scotland.

It'll play well in Scotland but leaves the Conservatives open to the charge in England of fiddling round the margins while Labour torch the nations economy.

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Good news as far as I am concerned.

As for some of the childish stupidity of the comments. well words despair me. Scots pound and English pound are identical currencies both are the British Pound. Scottish money is not some "Mickey mouse currency" any more than English money. (although perhaps the Pound Sterling might qualify as Disney money....)

To those point out that you cannot force someone to sell to you please consider what is being proposed.

You as a seller CAN refuse to accept any type of payment for goods purchased. That includes BoE notes.

The legislation is stating that persons must treat ALL GB* issued currency equally. So what is the problem? If you don't want Scottish notes then don't accept English ones either.....

Regarding the counterfeit problems - Us Scots manage quite well thank you. I recently spoke to an employee of the company that prints notes for all the issuing banks in the UK and apparently Scots notes are just as (if not more) advanced in that area. Perhaps education of traders might help to bring the average IQ up to Caledonian levels.... ;)

As you are all no doubt aware.... NO note is legal tender in Scotland. Not even your precious BofE notes. And also Finance is reserved to Westminster so making Scots notes legal tender is not in the Scottish Government's current remit.

Really all this bill proposes to do is to equalise treatment of Scottish notes with English notes in England. nothing to see here ... I can only assume the anti-Scottish feeling is due to the clowns that the Labour party have chosen to elect as leaders and select as chancellor in which case let me assure that much of Scotland hate them as much as you....

* GB as I don't know how this would affect NI issued notes.

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Scottish notes are backed 1:1 by sterling in the form of Bank of England bank notes. The banks in Scotland can only print money they have. Special Bank of England bank notes are issued (I think they are £1,000,000) to reduce the volume of bank notes held by the Scottish banks.

Scottish bank notes are not legal tender. Legal tender is money which has to be accepted to pay a debt. British coins and Bank of England bank notes are legal tender. Scottish bank notes are not legal tender and do not have to be accepted to clear a debt.

As long as a note is accepted to pay for goods or service, it is perfectly valid, so even though Scottish bank notes are not legal tender, as long as they remain accepted by most British people, they are perfectly valid as a form of money.

Edited by Imp

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Scottish notes are backed 1:1 by sterling in the form of Bank of England bank notes. The banks in Scotland can only print money they have. Special Bank of England bank notes are issued (I think they are £1,000,000) to reduce the volume of bank notes held by the Scottish banks.

Scottish bank notes are not legal tender. Legal tender is money which has to be accepted to pay a debt. British coins and Bank of England bank notes are legal tender.

Notes in England and Wales only. http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policie...guidelines.aspx

Coins are legal tender up to certain values....

Scottish bank notes are not legal tender and do not have to be accepted to clear a debt.

In Scotland English bank notes are not legal tender either....

As long as a note is accepted to pay for goods or service, it is perfectly valid, so even though Scottish bank notes are not legal tender, as long as they remain accepted by most British people, they are perfectly valid as a form of money.

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I sometimes get Scottish notes, and the one time that an English shopkeeper did get a bit funny, I loudly announced, "well, lets put it this way: either you accept that, or I sod off and you put all this stuff back."

He gave in at that point ;)

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Regarding the counterfeit problems - Us Scots manage quite well thank you. I recently spoke to an employee of the company that prints notes for all the issuing banks in the UK and apparently Scots notes are just as (if not more) advanced in that area.

But the point is that there are currently at least 3 different 'Scottish' £10 notes, this is fine if you live here and see all of them regularly, but if you are living in deepest darkest Dorset (for example) you may only see a few Scottish notes throughout the year. How is the poor shop attendant there supposed to know what is a genuine Scottish note and what isn't when they see so few of them and there are so many different banks printing them!? (they may accept a RBS note one week then the next week someone turns up with a Clydesdale one - are you really surprised the are often hesitant?!)

It is not racism as I have read some suggesting but merely people trying to avoid what could possibly be forgeries.

If there was a single 'Scottish' note - as there is a single 'English' one then we can start this argument for real.

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Something: The proposal has legs. Business and individuals across the UK will have to accept Scottish notes as settlement of debt, although they will not be legal tender. What this means is that people would be forced by statute to accept a money that could not be used to pay taxes. This is clearly insane.

Nothing: The proposal is insane, the MP is a foolish publicity seeker and this will come to nothing. So why would the Shadow Scottish Secretary be allowed by their Party to propose this? The only effect would be that the English public realise that a bankrupt Scottish bank* has a licence to print it's own money and would press for this right to be withdrawn. Hell, they might start asking whether a bankrupt bank has any right to be issuing money at all. Let's see:

Bank Charter Act 1844 (As amended)

. . .

12. If any banker in any part of the United Kingdom who shall be entitled to issue bank notes shall become bankrupt, or shall cease to carry on the business of a banker, or shall discontinue the issue of bank notes, either by agreement with the Bank of England or otherwise, it shall not be lawful for such banker at any time thereafter to issue any such notes.

. . .

28 . . . F16 in this Act . . . the term “Bank of England notes” shall extend and apply to the promissory notes of the Bank of England payable to bearer on demand; and the term “banker” shall extend and apply to all corporations, societies, partnerships, and persons, and every individual person, carrying on the business of banking, whether by the issue of bank notes or otherwise, except only the Bank of England; and the word “person” used in this Act shall include corporations; and the singular number in this Act shall include the plural number, and the plural number the singular, except where there is any thing in the context repugnant to such construction; and the masculine gender in this Act shall include the feminine, except where there is any thing in the context repugnant to such construction.

. . .

Before we get into a discussion as to whether RBS is bankrupt, perhaps we should ask whether a merger with another bank recinds the right to print.

*amongst others.

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But the point is that [...] if you are living in deepest darkest Dorset (for example) you may only see a few Scottish notes throughout the year. How is the poor shop attendant there supposed to know what is a genuine Scottish note and what isn't

quite. i refuse to accept banker's drafts when selling a car privately. as good as cash, if genuine, but how would i know, never having seen one?

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Guest sillybear2
All seems slightly odd to me. Why don't the welsh print their own notes, or do they??

No, they print ours, the Royal Mint is in Wales :lol:

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+1

It's actually worse than that. They frequently change the design partly to make them more desirable (like stamps) and partly to stay one step ahead of forgers. When you have so many doing it, it becomes impossible.

You might remember the 'George Best' note brought out in Northern Ireland by a Northern Irish bank. That sort of thing.

At least the Bank of England is not racist - it is comfortable enough in its own skin to have Adam Smith on its note - because really it is the Bank of the United Kingdom. The Scotish banks issuing local currency is no more than Lewes issuing its own local currency that people are either happy to accept or not.

Lets change the name then to something like Central bank of the United Kingdom

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...a new angle for you from the Royal Mint:

http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policie...guidelines.aspx

BANK OF ENGLAND NOTES:

In England and Wales the £5, £10, £20 and £50 notes are legal tender for payment of any amount. However, they are not legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

......let's call it quits.... :P

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We don't take Scottish banknotes (except in Scotland). Always getting customers with the 'it's legal tender' nonsense and 'I'II take my business elsewhere'. I'm sure a lot of them are using it deliberately to start some sort of clever dick argument.

I've got an idea, if you want to avoid a scene in a shop in England, just take your Mickey Mouse money to a bank and change it to BoE notes. Problem solved.

Edit to add: Most retailers don't except £50 BoE notes and haven't done for as long as I can remember. What we take payment in is the vendor's prerogative unless it's a debt they wish to legally enforce.

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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Now that Royal Bank of Scotland is 70% owned by the BRITISH public and Bank of Scotland is owned by Lloyds, they are not Scottish banks any more so there's no reason why they should continue to issue their own banknotes.

Anyway, we'll probably join the euro by default before long so it's all a bit irrelevant

Edited by blankster

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On the mercifully few occasions I've had to visit Scotland, I regularly had my English notes refused by retailers. I note that there is no proposal to make their acceptance there compulsory.

You sure it was the notes they objected to and not just you?!! ;)

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Do they have some kind of license to print the Scottish notes?

Are the notes backed by, I dunno, gilts? British pounds held by the Scottish banks that print them?

All seems slightly odd to me. Why don't the welsh print their own notes, or do they??

They are backed by money deposited in the Bank of England. Scotland is one of only three countries in the world where private banks are allowed to print money. The other two are Northern Ireland (Ulster Bank, First Trust, Northern Bank and Bank of Ireland) and Hong Kong (HSBC, Standard Chartered and Bank of China)

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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