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interestrateripoff

City Minister Lord Myners Attacks Bankers For Greed And Arrogance

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle5576562.ece

A furious onslaught on banking’s “masters of the Universe” has been unleashed by Gordon Brown’s City Minister.

Too many top bankers fail to realise they are grossly overrewarded and have no sense of society around them, Lord Myners says in an interview with The Times.

With figures yesterday pointing to a longer and deeper recession than feared, lasting into 2010, Lord Myners says that banks have been mismanaged and delivers the strongest attack so far on those responsible. He also reveals that the banking system was within less than three hours of collapse before the first bailout was announced. “We were very close on Friday, October 10. There were two or three hours when things felt very bad, nervous and fragile. Major depositors were trying to withdraw – and willing to pay penalties for early withdrawal – from a number of large banks.

Lord Myners says that there will have to be fundamental changes in the way that banks operate and that “the golden days of huge bonuses in the investment banking arms are gone”.

He sees no economic justification for senior executives’ pay rising “exponentially” in the past 20 years.

He calls on banking boards and shareholders to stamp on reckless behaviour of bosses. Asked whether they should pay back their bonuses or lose their knighthoods, he says “that’s a decision for individuals” and adds that if people have committed crimes they should be prosecuted.

Lord Myners says: “I have met more masters of the Universe than I would like to, people who were grossly overrewarded and did not recognise that. Some of that is pretty unpalatable.

“They are people who have no sense of the broader society around them. There is quite a lot of annoyance and much of that is justified.

“Let us be quite clear: there has been mismanagement of our banks.”

The 1.5 per cent fall in national income between October and December, announced yesterday, was the biggest decline since 1980, when Britain was fighting soaring unemployment and inflation at the start of the Thatcher era. The statistics led to dire predictions of the worst drop in growth in a calendar year since the Second World War. Gordon Brown said that the Government was fighting the recession with “every weapon at our disposal”.

George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, said: “The Government’s endless announcements and summits are commanding neither public confidence at home nor confidence abroad.”

So far we've had Portillo (Tory I know) and Hutton saying the Bankers should be jailed and now this!

Could this be another throw of the dice from Ponzi Brown, blame the bankers for this mess and jail them.

Obviously he set up the framework the bankers worked by so there could be a few problems with this idea.

But we all know he's delusional perhaps he'll deny it all and fail to acknowledge what he actually did.

Edited by interestrateripoff

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When Land Securities was doing well, due to the availability of loans to speculate on land values and property, its head, Lord Myners, wasn't quite as vocal.

He was, though, a major contributor to Gordons `leadership campaign'. This attack on the bankers is maybe just a little bit `Macavity'. Things must be getting desperate, politically for GB to get his mates to turn on their own mates on his behalf.

Y

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A furious onslaught on banking's "masters of the Universe" has been unleashed by Gordon Brown's City Minister.

Lord Myners (Lord from 21 October 2008)

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/minprofile_myners.htm

From (1972-1975) he worked for The Daily Telegraph as a financial journalist, he then went to work for N M Rothschild & Sons merchant bank. In 1985, he moved to Gartmore, a pension fund manager, becoming its Chair in 1987.

He has held directorships with Bank of New York, IMRO, Bridgepoint, Coutts, Lloyd's Market Board, NatWest, O2 and Orange.

:o

Edited by Mr. Parry

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle5576562.ece

So far we've had Portillo (Tory I know) and Hutton saying the Bankers should be jailed and now this!

Could this be another throw of the dice from Ponzi Brown, blame the bankers for this mess and jail them.

Obviously he set up the framework the bankers worked by so there could be a few problems with this idea.

But we all know he's delusional perhaps he'll deny it all and fail to acknowledge what he actually did.

Off-balance sheet accounting in UK is illegal as far as I know (perfectly legal in US).

I cannot think of a bank doing asset-backed securities in UK without using SPVs.

So, technically SFO should have been after them all years ago.

Or am I wrong?

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Off-balance sheet accounting in UK is illegal as far as I know (perfectly legal in US). I cannot think of a bank doing asset-backed securities in UK without using SPVs. So, technically SFO should have been after them all years ago. Or am I wrong?

Northern Rock is off balance sheet, and it isn't for efficiency reasons which are legal. The government just want to keep debt figures low, which the ONS got mad about and started publishing two sets of figures, one for Gordon and one for everyone else. Also from NR in this example

"We continue to treat securitised assets as “off balance sheet” for regulatory capital purposes, resulting in deductions from both Tier 1 and Tier 2 capital for the first loss piece retained by Northern Rock. Deductions are also equally made from Tier 1 and Tier 2 capital in respect of the excess of expected losses over provisions, whereas under Basle I Tier 2 capital benefited from the add back of collective provisions."

http://companyinfo.northernrock.co.uk/inve...ockEx070725.asp

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Northern Rock is off balance sheet, and it isn't for efficiency reasons which are legal. The government just want to keep debt figures low, which the ONS got mad about and started publishing two sets of figures, one for Gordon and one for everyone else. Also from NR in this example

"We continue to treat securitised assets as “off balance sheet” for regulatory capital purposes, resulting in deductions from both Tier 1 and Tier 2 capital for the first loss piece retained by Northern Rock. Deductions are also equally made from Tier 1 and Tier 2 capital in respect of the excess of expected losses over provisions, whereas under Basle I Tier 2 capital benefited from the add back of collective provisions."

http://companyinfo.northernrock.co.uk/inve...ockEx070725.asp

You are not suggesting thereby that the SFO will start with No10 and 11?

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Asked whether they should pay back their bonuses or lose their knighthoods, he says “that’s a decision for individuals” and adds that if people have committed crimes they should be prosecuted.

Interesting to note here that he did not advance the argument that it would be impossible for these bonus's to be paid back- only that he was not prepared to force them to do it.

They will never willingly sanction the recovery of all the money paid out to reward failure- but I am hearing this 'pay back the bonus' theme a lot lately- the morons were a little to conspicious with their consumption- allowed the 'Fat Cats' myth to propagate. It may soon come back to haunt them if Brown grows desperate enough to throw them to the wolves.

There is a workable rationale for a state owned bank to revisit Bonus payments made on the basis of perfomance that turned out to be illusory- why should those in charge not pay back these huge sums that were paid out on the basis of perfomance?

I bet the bankers are now regreting their use of the bonus concept to extract money from their institutions, because while they understood it to be just a device to accumulate wealth, it is difficult to defend against the charge that a perfomance based payment ought to bear some relationship to perfomace.

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I bet the bankers are now regreting their use of the bonus concept to extract money from their institutions, because while they understood it to be just a device to accumulate wealth, it is difficult to defend against the charge that a perfomance based payment ought to bear some relationship to perfomace.

If they manipulated the company accounts to enhance profits and thereby increased their bonuses would that not be prima facie evidence of fraud (both a criminal and civil law violation) ?

Fraud for profit involves industry professionals. There are generally multiple loan transactions with several financial institutions involved. These frauds include numerous gross misrepresentations including: income is overstated, assets are overstated, collateral is overstated, the length of employment is overstated or fictitious employment is reported, and employment is backstopped by conspirators. The borrower's debts are not fully disclosed, nor is the borrower's credit history, which is often altered. Often, the borrower assumes the identity of another person (straw buyer). The borrower states he intends to use the property for occupancy when he/she intends to use the property for rental income, or is purchasing the property for another party (nominee). Appraisals almost always list the property as owner-occupied. Down payments do not exist or are borrowed and disguised with a fraudulent gift letter. The property value is inflated (faulty appraisal) to increase the sales value to make up for no down payment and to generate cash proceeds in fraud for profit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

Edited by up2nogood

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Guest sillybear2
If they manipulated the company accounts to enhance profits and thereby increased their bonuses would that not be prima facie evidence of fraud (both a criminal and civil law violation) ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

Yes, but in finance it's simply known as "innovation".

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If they manipulated the company accounts to enhance profits and thereby increased their bonuses would that not be prima facie evidence of fraud (both a criminal and civil law violation) ?

I'm not suggesting that- though it would not surprise me. I think the bonus concept was just a vehicle to allow them to pay themselves more money, I don't think they ever really expected to be in position where they would have to actualy justify the payments to an outside entity, especialy to the great unwashed.

Their problem may be that joe public is so stupid he may not understand that 'bonus' payments are given by default- he may even have the bad taste to insist that those payments that have not been earned should be given back. That's the problem with the plebs, they're so damned literal.

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could this be another throw of the dice from Ponzi Brown, blame the bankers for this mess and jail them.

yep, missdirect the anger, blame the banks NOT the banking/monetary system itself.

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Gonad Brown should just say that all saver's savings will be protected, and the Gov't will not prop up or buy any more banks. If a bank fails, that's a free market.

If a bank (or any company) goes to the wall it becomes the property of the Crown IIRC.

Govt. effectively now owns the bank without bailing out the shareholders. This is what happened with Network Rail I think.

The shareholders risked their money and are ultimately responsible for the way the banks were run. Their loss.

As it is, the government is contributing to shareholders funds, and possibly just diluting, or propping up, share value, where in reality the shares are worthless.

A waste of taxpayer's money.

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yep, missdirect the anger, blame the banks NOT the banking/monetary system itself.

Obviously.

They love the system, all efforts once the system is proven beyond all doubt to have failed will be directed towards setting up another one just like it.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle5576562.ece

Could this be another throw of the dice from Ponzi Brown, blame the bankers for this mess and jail them.

Obviously he set up the framework the bankers worked by so there could be a few problems with this idea.

But we all know he's delusional perhaps he'll deny it all and fail to acknowledge what he actually did.

“If you blame others for your failures, do you credit them with your success?” quotation - anon

Brown rode an 11 year wave of easy credit which he helped to sustain. He brought us 11 years of hubris and promises and we were to believe he had abolished "boom and bust". Without a boom there can be no bust.

He oversaw the creation of and regulation by the FSA whose remit was to watch the banks.

He ignored widespread criticism of failings within the FSA since 2003.

He artificially suppressed interest rates by manipulating the measure of inflation.

He contemptuously dismissed warnings of dangerous levels of personal indebtedness, and unsustainable house prices for years.

He, and Blair were questioned about the excesses in the housing market and the lending by the banks on numerous occasions since 2003. He swept aside question and criticism with equal disdain and arrogance.

He raked in the taxes from the Banks and financial organisations and never once questions the viability of its generation.

He accuses the banks of hiding their liabilities while obstinately refusing the declare the true extent of the liabilities he was heaping on the taxpayer. He still refuses to accept railtrack, public sector pensions and PFI deals to be accounted for in any kind of transparent way.

The above does not exonerate the Banks for their part but this tormented soul rails and rages that it was not his fault in any way. With Obama in the White House he can no longer wildly chide the Americans for their part - not now he needs Obama's help (both financially and politically) so he must find another scapegoat.

He and his cronies desperately cling to the hope that by some miracle there will be signs of a recovery later in the year which he can claim are the "green shoots" that prove he has guided us from the wilderness to the "new" (labour) promised land. Until then he will lay the blame on anyone but himself.

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I don't see what is wrong with (correctly) pointing to the greed and arrogance of the bankers. A culling of banker class has to be good news however it comes about. That this has to be done by Labour is a given, the Old Etonian Party certainly won't do anything to their kid's godparents, colleagues, neighbours and relatives.

That said, I don't think it will detract from or deflect from the charges of greed and arrogance that G. Brown will have to face. What this is more likely to do is to cause everyone to pull their daggers out and what a fine blood bath it will be.

Just don't see the problem, there is plenty of anger to go around.

Edited by Cogs

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Another own goal.

Every single rant drops the share price by a few more % as traders see the banks being undermined further in word and deed.

The markets are constantly being told by the govt that the banking sector is rubbish and evil which further weakens confidence and the likelihood that banks will be nationalised. Next logical step - the currency markets drive down sterling because they know the government can't afford to do this. Which affects our credit rating which causes weakening confidence etc etc etc.

The Govt should just shut up and forget about politics for a while. But they won't.

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My sister works for an American investment bank which got a pretty mega bailout 3 months ago (admitedlly from uncle sam)

Is she worried/ashamed of her part in all this?

Is she fk

Been bragging for months how great it is that ther pound has sunk so long. After all she is getting paid dollar equivalent so has had a 50% pay rise!

Thanks Gordon et al

What was it that wan ker wassayingaabout "fairness for all recently"

LOL

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Another own goal.

Every single rant drops the share price by a few more % as traders see the banks being undermined further in word and deed.

The markets are constantly being told by the govt that the banking sector is rubbish and evil which further weakens confidence and the likelihood that banks will be nationalised. Next logical step - the currency markets drive down sterling because they know the government can't afford to do this. Which affects our credit rating which causes weakening confidence etc etc etc.

The Govt should just shut up and forget about politics for a while. But they won't.

I don't think Labour know how to shut up, they have to do something even if it's the wrong thing to do because it's doing something and doing something is the right thing to do.

Brown is the most delusional PM this nation has ever had.

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Every single rant drops the share price by a few more % as traders see the banks being undermined further in word and deed.

Treasury now backing away from the comments.

"A personal view", not shared by the Chancellor, etc. etc.

I think someone was listening to you Starcrossed.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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