The Masked Tulip Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I am a tad perplexed by numerous Vox Pops I have seen on the TV today and in recent days where members of the Public are talking as if the sky has fallen in. Most of these interviews, not all, seem to be in non-industrial areas so I can only assume they have never known the devastating recession that happened in the 1980s to the once industrialised parts of the UK. I have just been watching some Vox Pops in the streets now on the TV News, members of the Public asked what they think is happening in the recession and you get the impression that some of them think the World is about to end. Maybe I am now a hardened cynic, maybe I went through the 1980s, maybe I just don't come from the leafy Home Counties but for the first time today it has occured to me that some people are indeed talking us into a far worse recession. Or perhaps people are genuinely scared in the Home Counties and other non-industrialised areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This is not like the 80's. Nothing like it. I am old enough to know , the 70's too for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-sign-jacker Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Most of these interviews, not all, seem to be in non-industrial areas so I can only assume they have never known the devastating recession that happened in the 1980s to the once industrialised parts of the UK. i know. tee hee....... ...and did these feet, in ancient times......walk upon...blah blah blah...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrabus Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It would be nice to see the south east suffer the same fate as the rest of the country for a change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Maybe I am now a hardened cynic, maybe I went through the 1980s, maybe I just don't come from the leafy Home Counties but for the first time today it has occured to me that some people are indeed talking us into a far worse recession. Or perhaps people are genuinely scared in the Home Counties and other non-industrialised areas? “Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation” Eddie George former Governor of the Bank of England This time the South gets to join in with everyone else. Devastating recessions have always avoided posh / middle class people this time there luck has run out and they can stand in the shit with everyone else. It appears they don't like, I wonder how many of those have MEW'd and taken profit out of their homes to spend on holidays, essential gadgets etc... and now can't afford to pay it back because the house is collapsing in value? This will probably be the national recession where the North/South divide no longer applies. I suppose the shock effect is happening these people have probably spent years in denial about there finances and now reality is hitting home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 This is not like the 80's. Nothing like it. I am old enough to know , the 70's too for that matter. Exactly. It might in time become like the 80s but it ain't anywhere near as bad yet. If this was the 80s by now we would have the 80% crash in prices that we are all hoping for. Problem is, 5 or 6 million would be out of work. The 80s were dire in the UK save for the shire counties. The Tories covered up so many jobless in community programmes, YTS, sick benefit, etc. I am not saying that Labour is not doing the same but the volume of people out of work is no where near the 1980s. If anything, I am just sat here thinking how pathetic and weak many in the shire counties are. Get on yer' bike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Exactly. It might in time become like the 80s but it ain't anywhere near as bad yet. If this was the 80s by now we would have the 80% crash in prices that we are all hoping for. Problem is, 5 or 6 million would be out of work.The 80s were dire in the UK save for the shire counties. The Tories covered up so many jobless in community programmes, YTS, sick benefit, etc. I am not saying that Labour is not doing the same but the volume of people out of work is no where near the 1980s. If anything, I am just sat here thinking how pathetic and weak many in the shire counties are. Get on yer' bike! Isn't there something like 2.7m already on sickness benefit? That would already put us at around 4.5m. How many people are on training courses that don't count as being unemployed? Didn't Thatcher alter the signing on rules so that partners of workers no longer signed on to remove them from the figures? I would guess we are nearer the 5m mark than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If anything, I am just sat here thinking how pathetic and weak many in the shire counties are. Get on yer' bike! Says the Mumbles Millionaire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 One of the things I am going to find particularly gratifying, is watching the middle managers who outsourced and offshored their staff to oblivion being made redundant, and then realising there are no lower level jobs left for them to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Isn't there something like 2.7m already on sickness benefit? Yep, the corresponding figure for 1985 was about 0.8million IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Exactly. It might in time become like the 80s but it ain't anywhere near as bad yet. Actually what I meant was that this is worse than the 80's. This is faster, and more widespread. It's barely got going yet. The job losses this year will be staggering. The defaults too. All sectors, all levels. We are screwed, whether in manufacturing ( like me), or banking, retail, services, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle rogi Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The 80s were dire in the UK save for the shire counties. The Tories covered up so many jobless in community programmes, YTS, sick benefit, etc. I am not saying that Labour is not doing the same but the volume of people out of work is no where near the 1980s. the real crash starts in march/april this year, if this crash is a footy match we are just past the coin toss stage. a white collar jobpocalypse.... like argentina/iceland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Storm Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have just been watching some Vox Pops in the streets now on the TV News, members of the Public asked what they think is happening in the recession and you get the impression that some of them think the World is about to end. I wish it would end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Yep, the corresponding figure for 1985 was about 0.8million IIRC. So not only have we had HPI we've had Incapacity Benefit Inflation as well. How clever the Tories where to say if your on incapacity benefit you don't count as unemployed and this idea is a socialist dream ticket, your too sick to work so you don't have to you poor dear. Those nasty Tories trying to make all of these sick people work!!!! Actually what I meant was that this is worse than the 80's. This is faster, and more widespread. It's barely got going yet. The job losses this year will be staggering. The defaults too. All sectors, all levels. We are screwed, whether in manufacturing ( like me), or banking, retail, services, whatever. I had a suspicion that your post was meaning it was far worse. Edited January 23, 2009 by interestrateripoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deflation Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This will probably be the national recession where the North/South divide no longer applies.I suppose the shock effect is happening these people have probably spent years in denial about there finances and now reality is hitting home. So many people now have access to information / graphs / charts that quote %age drops, it's possible that the South will suffer more as far as HPC is concerned. After all, a 30% drop in value of a £300k semi in the SE (90k drop) is far worse than a 30% drop in a 150k semi in the Midlands (45k drop) or a 120k semi in North (36k). Forgive me for generalising, different parts of the same town have different 'values' but my point is that MEWing on increased value has released much higher amounts of cash in the South than the North. The last 2 recessions were mostly the restructuring of manufacturing so if this recession IS everywhere (it won't be just white collar as suggested by some writers), it will hit the South worse because of the sheer amount of debt. For f***s sake, even some people I know MEW'd to get £6k for a bloody skiing holiday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Says the Mumbles Millionaire. If only... In the 90s millions of people became one person limited companies in our service industries. Such people who have no work now and who sign on will not get a penny in benefit for at least 6 months nor show up in the unemployment figures until at least then if at all. There was just a chap on Sky News, another economist, who said this was going to be the middle to higher class earners recession where many people, even dual income families, will suddenly find themselves earning less than most working class people, will lose more - I assume he meant houses here - and will find themselves at the bottom of the pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Woman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 One of the things I am going to find particularly gratifying, is watching the middle managers who outsourced and offshored their staff to oblivion being made redundant, and then realising there are no lower level jobs left for them to do! Hahahahaha! I lost two of my biggest clients when they outsourced work to Vietnam and South Africa. Then they had to employ in house permanent staff to quality control and oversee the product because the standard was so shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Forgive me for generalising, different parts of the same town have different 'values' but my point is that MEWing on increased value has released much higher amounts of cash in the South than the North. The last 2 recessions were mostly the restructuring of manufacturing so if this recession IS everywhere (it won't be just white collar as suggested by some writers), it will hit the South worse because of the sheer amount of debt. For f***s sake, even some people I know MEW'd to get £6k for a bloody skiing holiday! They had the High Street of Marlow in Bucks on the TV earlier on - market town in the richest UK county. It looked like something from the 1980s with boarded up shops all along the High Street. The shops have begun closing down in Swansea but it does not look as bad as Marlow - yet. And Marlow is a posh commuter town is it not? I mean, loads of people who earn good money in London and not earning 10K part-time in the DVLA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Della Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Maybe I am now a hardened cynic, maybe I went through the 1980s, maybe I just don't come from the leafy Home Counties but for the first time today it has occured to me that some people are indeed talking us into a far worse recession. Or perhaps people are genuinely scared in the Home Counties and other non-industrialised areas? It is a pretty manic society, manic on the ups, manic on the downs, in large part I think that is due to the way the media works. I have learned that things will tend to go to their logical conclusions, even if those logical conclusions are pretty dumb. I didn't think the debt bubble would get to the point of total debt saturation, but it did, that trend went to its logical conclusion. Things don't really need to be that bad because of the debt crisis, but they will be, experience has taught me that much. I don't think there is any way to stop it as this is kind of like when somone has run off a cliff, the real disaster was when they ran of the cliff, the rest; the falling, the hitting the bottom and the dying, are all kind of inevitable after that. Too many people are in a totally untenable financial position. Edited January 23, 2009 by Della Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Della Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 They had the High Street of Marlow in Bucks on the TV earlier on - market town in the richest UK county. It looked like something from the 1980s with boarded up shops all along the High Street. The shops have begun closing down in Swansea but it does not look as bad as Marlow - yet. And Marlow is a posh commuter town is it not? I mean, loads of people who earn good money in London and not earning 10K part-time in the DVLA? I seem to remember reading here one time that when people get paid in Swansea on average 98% of peoples income is allocated to various fixed monthly outgoings. It could be that since people didn't have much discressionary expendature little industry was able to build itself around discressionary expendature there, and therefore if discressionary expendature collapsed in Swansea nothing much would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Dundee Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) I was brought up in Glossop just outside of Greater Manchester in the 70s/80s and I suppose 90's too. We went from a situation in my living memory of around 40-50 small factories, almost full employment and high home ownership in the 70s to what we have today. 2 factories and God alone knows how long they can keep going, very high unemployment. It would not surprise me to say that unemployment in Glossop is around the 15% mark, much higher than the national average. We have suffered, like many former mill towns around the North West and West Yorks/North Derbyshire area. We have done the whole sh1tting our pants thing, when the Bailiffs come round and now most people around here have nothing left to take. In fairness while those in the Home Counties and London were toasting themselves on how well they could make some cash from houses, we couldnt even afford to get back on the property ladder. (Priced out) I believe the phrase is. Some, like myself who have managed to buy are in a position where we may lose the job and so inevitably lose our home. Does that mean we sit here worrying about it. Yes we do. Why else do you think I joined an internet site called House Price Crash, but we are not, the Eton educated, Cambridge Elite, we are just hard working people who are just getting on with life. We know and are resigned to the fact that we will not be Millionaires, but can those in the Home Counties resign themselves into being just like us. Broke and Poor. I think we are about to find out. Edited January 23, 2009 by pinbacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was brought up in Glossop just outside of Greater Manchester in the 70s/80s and I suppose 90's too. We went from a situation in my living memory of around 40-50 small factories, almost full employment and high home ownership in the 70s to what we have today. 2 factories and God alone knows how long they can keep going, very high unemployment. It would not surprise me to say that unemployment in Glossop is around the 15% mark, much higher than the national average.We have suffered, like many former mill towns around the North West and West Yorks/North Derbyshire area. We have done the whole sh1tting our pants thing, when the Bailiffs come round and now most people around here have nothing left to take. In fairness while those in the Home Counties and London were toasting themselves on how well they could make some cash from houses, we couldnt even afford to get back on the property ladder. (Priced out) I believe the phrase is. Some, like myself who have managed to buy are in a position where we may lose the job and so inevitably lose our home. Does that mean we sit here worrying about it. Yes we do. Why else do you think I joined an internet site called House Price Crash, but we are not, the Eton educated, Cambridge Elite, we are just hard working people who are just getting on with life. We know and are resigned to the fact that we will not be Millionaires, but can those in the Home Counties resign themselves into being just like us. Broke and Poor. I think we are about to find out. I wonder how many homes those in the Home Counties stand to lose, when many in the North lost one. Although to be fair there are plenty of BTL up north as well. We all fail together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It would be nice to see the south east suffer the same fate as the rest of the country for a change Yes, they voted for Thatcher in the 1980s while the rest of the country got royally screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Dundee Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I wonder how many homes those in the Home Counties stand to lose, when many in the North lost one.Although to be fair there are plenty of BTL up north as well. We all fail together. Correct of course but in the North, a home may be worth £100,000 if your lucky. What would the losses be in the Home Counties, me thinks it might be tad more. BTL - Buy to Live (in), these so called property investors have frozen many first time buyers out of the market, now there stuck with the properties they have stolen. Time will need to spent, but eventually first time buyers will be able to buy these properties at a vastly reduced rate from the auction houses around the country. We need reform of the whole housing market. This PONZI scheme just doesnt work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theboltonfury Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I wish it would end. yep, we've all had our fun now! I'm bored of being a manic depressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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