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juvenal

Closing Final Salary Pension Schemes To Existing Members

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7846122.stm

Isn't this today's big news?

Once this ball is rolling, won't the pressures on public sector final salary schemes to be withdrawn be overwhelming?

And if this occurs, is that the final nail in the whole pensions coffin? The final loss of faith in any sort of pension?

And could that trigger a return to viewing property as a retirement investment?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7846122.stm

Isn't this today's big news?

Once this ball is rolling, won't the pressures on public sector final salary schemes to be withdrawn be overwhelming?

And if this occurs, is that the final nail in the whole pensions coffin? The final loss of faith in any sort of pension?

And could that trigger a return to viewing property as a retirement investment?

About time too. The sooner everyone is on aeven keel, the better. The private sector (generally) doesn't have final salary schemes - why on earth should the public sector?

Or put another way, why are the private sector being denied final salary schemes?

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I've often wondered how a final salary scheme could ever be financially viable in the long term. My reasons for thinking this are set out clearly in the BBC article linked to by the OP. Eventually, to keep going, all final salary schemes have to become Ponzi schemes, which is exactly how the state pension is funded. Ponzi schemes, as we know, pose significant risks because unforeseen events such as a slow down in new recruits to the scheme will cause it to start to collapse.

Be aware that your state pension is a Ponzi scheme and if it is to be guaranteed future viability then the government will be taxing us to the brink of bankruptcy to provide that guarantee. As the baby boomers retire so all pensions will become a hot topic, lucky for them few of the younger generation understand much about pensions, for if they did they would find more selfish ways to provision for their retirement that don't involve paying for the baby boomers!

Edited by exception

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Or put another way, why are the private sector being denied final salary schemes?

With you on that, but it ain't going to happen.

My contention is that when it finally sinks into the public mind that money purchase schemes are high risk, and that the final payout is completely unpredictable, they will look elsewhere to put their money.

This is a replay of what happened in the 1980's and 90's, and which was a major factor in the rush to BTL.

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Guest sillybear2
Or put another way, why are the private sector being denied final salary schemes?

Because all such pensions, whether public or private, are just ponzi schemes that cannot be maintained in an environment of vastly longer life expectancies, low interest rates and in a country facing a demographic timebomb. The public schemes will have to go eventually, but much like the state bailing out the banks, they are able to maintain the mirage a while longer because national debt has unique properties, it never dies and you can selfishly dump the unborn into a load of debt not of their making.

The social contract will soon break down once young people finally wake up and realise just how screwed their are, the young have nothing to fear, when you have nothing they can't take anything away you from, they are not the one's that have promised themselves unfunded final salary schemes, nor monopolised the housing market, thinking some slave with eternally pay rent to their new feudal masters.

Edited by sillybear2

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About time too. The sooner everyone is on aeven keel, the better.

You realise that would actually mean raising the wages of most public sector staff by a considerable amount? Without perks like a decent pension, how are you going to get people to do important but low-paid work of the kind unsuited to the private sector?

The private sector doesn't have the answers to everything, as is proven by the fact that it's currently falling to bits.

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You realise that would actually mean raising the wages of most public sector staff by a considerable amount? Without perks like a decent pension, how are you going to get people to do important but low-paid work of the kind unsuited to the private sector?

The private sector doesn't have the answers to everything, as is proven by the fact that it's currently falling to bits.

Plenty of unemployed people, ask all the ex-Woolies staff if they would like a council job with no pension

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Don't forget that in 2012, the link between OAP and average income will be slowly re-introduced.

The women's pension age will ramp towards 65 .

ALL employers will have to pay 3% of Gross income into a pension scheme, either private or govt run.

4% of your earnings between around £5,000 and £35,000

3% from your employer

1% from the Government through tax relief

You can opt out if you wish but by making it opt-OUT rather than positive action required to opt-in as at present, financially unaware people will be in a scheme automatically.

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Guest sillybear2
You realise that would actually mean raising the wages of most public sector staff by a considerable amount? Without perks like a decent pension, how are you going to get people to do important but low-paid work of the kind unsuited to the private sector?

Average public sector pay is now higher than the private sector, you assume everyone in private employment is paid loads and works in a City environment, no so. Obviously the public sector pays far too well at the moment, given the excessive number of people it employs, I'm sure the country will just be able to scrape by with a few less Dignity Contact Officers, Harassment Contact Officers and Diversity Awareness Officers along with all those new eco-stasi officials the government are creating.

I'm glad the banks are now in the public sector, they can join their fellow parasites.

Edited by sillybear2

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Plenty of unemployed people, ask all the ex-Woolies staff if they would like a council job with no pension

Picking crap off the streets is fine for ex-shop assistants, but where are you going to find firemen, policemen, paramedics, soldiers, etc? You can't expect them to work for crap pay and no perks or pensions. The choice is simple: pension, pay rise or no services.

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Guest sillybear2
You can opt out if you wish but by making it opt-OUT rather than positive action required to opt-in as at present, financially unaware people will be in a scheme automatically.

It's just a way of automatically channeling new money to the parasites in the City, I'm sure there'll be a bust up in a few years when the banksters and politicians argue over who is going to steal the proceeds.

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Guest sillybear2
Picking crap off the streets is fine for ex-shop assistants, but where are you going to find firemen, policemen, paramedics, soldiers, etc?

There were over 40 applicants for each firemen's job, and that was before their strike action.

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There were over 40 applicants for each firemen's job, and that was before their strike action.

They already had quite a good pension scheme (compared to most office wallahs, anyway). That probably counteracted the crap pay to some degree.

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It may indeed provoke a "rush for BTL".

Good luck getting the mortgage for it though.

Or will we be in a strange new stage of the game where there is a bubble in saving and buying rental properties for cash?

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There are always complaints about the feckless making no effort to have an income when they are old so the automatic inclusion option was selected. The p**s poor take-up of the Stakeholder pnsions led to this I think.

However, if the state pension DOES start to be worth a bit more, relatively, that's a good thing.

Apologies for the women's pension stuff, the ramp to 65 starts in 2010, finishing in 2020.

I know many on here think its too far off to worry about, and probably ignored it when it was announced, but age for the OAP starts ramping from 65 to 68 in 2024. If we still have a 'state' of course. :ph34r:

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I think a big problem for many will be that the companies they have been with for years and have built up pensions with will go bust and they will loose the lot is the government going to guarentee peoples pensions pots for everyone ?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2488513.stm

A thumbnail personal history related to my OP.

Thatcher's detaching of pensions from earnings in the 1980's (link) caused a rush to purchase private pensions. We no longer could rely on the State Pension. I was one of them who rushed.

Within 10 years, us millions who had rushed into private pensions realised we had been duped by venal salesmen; dodgy brokers; lying promises,;high management charges; volatile markets; poor funds etc. Improved rules did bugger all.

By the early 1990's we realized we'd been had. We quit private pensions. We froze our funds, and looked elsewhere. I went into cash.

A million or more went into BTL. Some to simply secure something for retirement; others to build 'easy money' portfolio empires.

My point is that when any sort of pension is seen as problematic or risky (money purchase/defined contribution pensions are inferior and high risk), the punters may well look again to property. Is there another BTL boom out there just over the horizon?. Five years down the line - but out there?

Tell me I'm wrong.

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I think a big problem for many will be that the companies they have been with for years and have built up pensions with will go bust and they will loose the lot is the government going to guarentee peoples pensions pots for everyone ?

That's the intention. All schemes protected since 2004:

http://www.pensionprotectionfund.org.uk/in...out_the_ppf.htm

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I thought about this during question time last night. They could cut police costs massively by reducing pension entitlement.

OR they could pay murderers to kill the police before they retire. Have to make sure they REALLY kill them, though; if they just hospitalise them they'll be paying for YEARS under the DLA.

That'd also mean that less people join the police, so we'd save TONS on the payroll.

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I've often wondered how a final salary scheme could ever be financially viable in the long term. My reasons for thinking this are set out clearly in the BBC article linked to by the OP. Eventually, to keep going, all final salary schemes have to become Ponzi schemes, which is exactly how the state pension is funded. Ponzi schemes, as we know, pose significant risks because unforeseen events such as a slow down in new recruits to the scheme will cause it to start to collapse.

Be aware that your state pension is a Ponzi scheme and if it is to be guaranteed future viability then the government will be taxing us to the brink of bankruptcy to provide that guarantee. As the baby boomers retire so all pensions will become a hot topic, lucky for them few of the younger generation understand much about pensions, for if they did they would find more selfish ways to provision for their retirement that don't involve paying for the baby boomers!

Pension schemes would be in better shape if the pension providers stopped lending the shares to hedge funds so they could short them and de-value our pensions. Pension providers should be sued for this practice whichis deliberately sabotaging your pension.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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