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Realistbear

Is The Solution To The Credit Bubble In The Jubilee?

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First, please try to keep this thread OT and not turn it into some religious fundie rant one way or the other. Keep to the econmics!

My intent is to raise the possibility that an ancient remedy to deal with acculumated debt and the repercussions thereof may have a viable remedy. It is too easy to write off ancient teachings as being, well, ancient and of no relevance today. But there are sound arguments to support the contention that there really is nothing new under the sun and that Hegel got it right about human history being a series of repeated mistakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Christian)

"In the Biblical book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is mentioned to occur every fifty years, in which slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven..."

What if..........

Instead of Gordon borrowing billions to pay off debt--all debt was cancelled?

To avoid exploitation of the spirit of the rule--only debt accumulated for houses purchased befroe a certain date would be debt free?

This was a one-off event to bring the books under control and therefater to implement stroict rules regarding debt and abuse of the fractional reserve banking system?

Bottom line: How much worse would such a dramatic remedy be than the inevitable result of the current madness of Brown? I.e. more debt, more slavery, more instability, more social misery...........................

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First, please try to keep this thread OT and not turn it into some religious fundie rant one way or the other. Keep to the econmics!

My intent is to raise the possibility that an ancient remedy to deal with acculumated debt and the repercussions thereof may have a viable remedy. It is too easy to write off ancient teachings as being, well, ancient and of no relevance today. But there are sound arguments to support the contention that there really is nothing new under the sun and that Hegel got it right about human history being a series of repeated mistakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Christian)

"In the Biblical book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is mentioned to occur every fifty years, in which slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven..."

What if..........

Instead of Gordon borrowing billions to pay off debt--all debt was cancelled?

To avoid exploitation of the spirit of the rule--only debt accumulated for houses purchased befroe a certain date would be debt free?

This was a one-off event to bring the books under control and therefater to implement stroict rules regarding debt and abuse of the fractional reserve banking system?

Bottom line: How much worse would such a dramatic remedy be than the inevitable result of the current madness of Brown? I.e. more debt, more slavery, more instability, more social misery...........................

This idea was in the FT about 2 weeks ago, and seems to be gaining some traction.

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First, please try to keep this thread OT and not turn it into some religious fundie rant one way or the other. Keep to the econmics!

My intent is to raise the possibility that an ancient remedy to deal with acculumated debt and the repercussions thereof may have a viable remedy. It is too easy to write off ancient teachings as being, well, ancient and of no relevance today. But there are sound arguments to support the contention that there really is nothing new under the sun and that Hegel got it right about human history being a series of repeated mistakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Christian)

"In the Biblical book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is mentioned to occur every fifty years, in which slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven..."

What if..........

Instead of Gordon borrowing billions to pay off debt--all debt was cancelled?

To avoid exploitation of the spirit of the rule--only debt accumulated for houses purchased befroe a certain date would be debt free?

This was a one-off event to bring the books under control and therefater to implement stroict rules regarding debt and abuse of the fractional reserve banking system?

Bottom line: How much worse would such a dramatic remedy be than the inevitable result of the current madness of Brown? I.e. more debt, more slavery, more instability, more social misery...........................

I'm sure all the STR's would love that!

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Wouldn't this result in massive civil unrest? I know all current plans lead to the same thing, but this idea would probably be the fastest route.

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I think a cancellation of 50% of each and every debt could be very helpful. It wouldn't benefit me directly, though, as I have no debts of any kind.

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How about a cash sum to everyone in the country over 18, say £10k? Those with debt would be obliged to reduce it (must be a way to check). Those without can use it as savings, increase their STR fund or spend it whatever.

It would ram home the fact that debt is bad .... oh of course, we couldn't have that could we, debt is wealth.

Another snag - £10k to everyone over 18 would also cost about £500 billion.

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Brainstorming the consequences:

All bonds would become literally worthless.

All bond holders would suffer (unit trusts, pension funds, corporations, individuals)

All banks would be instantly bankrupt with huge liabilities (deposits liable to be repayed) and no assets.

Interest rates for future borrowing would soar, and availability of future credit would plunmmet, for fear of the exercise being repeated.

The most heavily indebted will be rewarded the most, the most prudent will suffer.

Regardless of the moral issues, it seems highly unlikely that a government could commit itself to such a course.

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hi

reminds me of the arguments for writing off 3rd World debt - it's OK unless you never want to borrow any more...

I'd rather debtors prisons that letting them off.

OTOH: pm me if the Jubilee plan looks like going ahead, and I'll take out that £1million mortgage ASAP...

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Wouldn't this result in massive civil unrest? I know all current plans lead to the same thing, but this idea would probably be the fastest route.

Civil unrest tends to come from people that are struggling to feed themselves and their families. I can't see STRers out on the street throwing petrol bombs while the chavs celebrate the negation of all their debts. If the chavs aren't part of the civil unrest, then there is no civil unrest.

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Make it compulsory for anyone accepting the "Jubilee debt free option" to attend Mass at least twice a week for the rest of their lives. And their family members also. If they failed to do so, the debt would be returned to them. That would sort out the truly repentant from the chancers ;)

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If they were stupid enough to wipe out debts in a 'jubilee' I would stop paying my rent and rack up as much debt as I could before refusing to pay. I have absolutely no debt - not "not much debt", not "no debt except my small overdraft", not "no debt except the credit card". Zero debt. If people get their debts wiped then watch me go on the biggest debt binge the world has ever seen before leaving this country for good. I doubt I'd be the only one.

I would also explain to all my friends and colleagues what I am about to do and try and get them to join me. In short, this country would go up in flames.

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I'd rather debtors prisons that letting them off.

Even back then, they realised it was pointless. Even people in employment were sent to debtor's prisons, thereby taking away any means of them producing the means to repay the debt. The debt didn't get repaid.

There are many stories about debts being persued on people who got repo'd many years ago and I hope we see more.

Debts should hang around your neck like a millstone until they are repaid, not something you can walk away from with a 'I'll go bankrupt then' and jingle-mail.

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If they were stupid enough to wipe out debts in a 'jubilee' I would stop paying my rent and rack up as much debt as I could before refusing to pay. I have absolutely no debt - not "not much debt", not "no debt except my small overdraft", not "no debt except the credit card". Zero debt. If people get their debts wiped then watch me go on the biggest debt binge the world has ever seen before leaving this country for good. I doubt I'd be the only one.

I would also explain to all my friends and colleagues what I am about to do and try and get them to join me. In short, this country would go up in flames.

Maybe as a condition of cancelling debt, no further credit was offered?

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If they were stupid enough to wipe out debts in a 'jubilee' I would stop paying my rent and rack up as much debt as I could before refusing to pay. I have absolutely no debt - not "not much debt", not "no debt except my small overdraft", not "no debt except the credit card". Zero debt. If people get their debts wiped then watch me go on the biggest debt binge the world has ever seen before leaving this country for good. I doubt I'd be the only one.

I would also explain to all my friends and colleagues what I am about to do and try and get them to join me. In short, this country would go up in flames.

Yes. Exactly.

I am watching very carefully at the moment trying to read between the lines. There may come a point very soon when getting as much debt as possible becomes the correct play.

F

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Brainstorming the consequences:

All bonds would become literally worthless.

All bond holders would suffer (unit trusts, pension funds, corporations, individuals)

All banks would be instantly bankrupt with huge liabilities (deposits liable to be repayed) and no assets.

Interest rates for future borrowing would soar, and availability of future credit would plunmmet, for fear of the exercise being repeated.

The most heavily indebted will be rewarded the most, the most prudent will suffer.

Regardless of the moral issues, it seems highly unlikely that a government could commit itself to such a course.

I think most of the above is already current reality. Thus nothing to lose by Jubilleeing?

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I would start selling 51 year bonds. Any takers?

VMR.

YOu hit the nail on the head.

Jubilee rules would teach people not to accummulate LONG TERM debt. Thus not borrowing more than you can repay within a short period of time.

Leviticus 25 has some interesting rules regarding housing debt. Those wise old sods must have seen a lot of HPI madness coming in future years and fouond ways to nip it in the bud.

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YOu hit the nail on the head.

Jubilee rules would teach people not to accummulate LONG TERM debt. Thus not borrowing more than you can repay within a short period of time.

Leviticus 25 has some interesting rules regarding housing debt. Those wise old sods must have seen a lot of HPI madness coming in future years and fouond ways to nip it in the bud.

Some wise old sods also backed their money with gold too to stop abuse of it.

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Civil unrest tends to come from people that are struggling to feed themselves and their families. I can't see STRers out on the street throwing petrol bombs while the chavs celebrate the negation of all their debts. If the chavs aren't part of the civil unrest, then there is no civil unrest.

I think we are in an unknown area this time though. IF, the mew'd, btl, over borrowed, feckless and so on, get debt written off, then I don't think it would pass off peacefully. I doubt that most teenagers are in debt. I know some are, but the majority won't be. They will not be too happy, seeing their future being spent on the generation ahead of them. There is your civil unrest right there. Also, I for one, would be working out how to get "my share" of that bailout, and that would no doubt be something illegal. It might even involve some violence and theft from chavs :lol:

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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