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Karl Marx Was Spot On

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Calm down - it's a fake quote from a chain email that bankers send each other to pass the time between bailouts.

Whoever started it should get a good pat on the back.

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Mansai? whats that mean?

Mansai, so I am told, is a Thai expression heard mostly at large beach resorts. In particular it can be heard when uttered by a slightly unusual looking bird who has chosen to sit next to you.

Apparently it translates to "Mines a large one".

And she's not referring to a drink.

:blink::o:lol:

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Guest sillybear2
He also beat his wife and kids when he wasn’t neglecting them. He would periodically come into large sums of money from benefactors which he would proceed to blow on the good life for himself before ending up penniless.

Exactly, he was a good socialist, and has inspired many a British chancellor.

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Guest sillybear2
I don't think you can argue the current UK government is entirely socialist.

Only in the treatment of banksters and good friends.

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What are you proposing as an alternative? A plutocracy where you have to earn a certain amount in order to vote?

Can you imagine what this country could achieve if you could only vote if you were a tax payer at the basic rate.

Can you imagine what we could achieve if in order to get benefits you had to go and sit in the town hall all day, or by cleaning the streets and public building. Rather than sitting at home with the heating on full and the windows open watching sky TV and feuding with your neighbors, while being listed as both a victim in several open police cases and a perpetrator in several more.

If we build twice as many prisons and instead of giving out asbo’s we enforced the law. And where in prison, release would be contingent on being drug free and able to read and write. And if education was the principle pursuit of prison authorities, so people there would be forced to study for GCSE’s or vocational skills.

If teachers, soldiers, police and nurses were well paid and respected once more. And planning officers and god knows how many X-officers working for local authorities were removed from their meddlesome jobs and returned to public sector employment. If public spending was shifted to the core. Schools Hospitals and Armed Forces, and out of Authorities, quangos and departments.

It might sound like hell to you. But it sounds like nirvana to me. The sad thing about our society is that the above sounds so unlikely.

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Can you imagine what this country could achieve if you could only vote if you were a tax payer at the basic rate.

Can you imagine what we could achieve if in order to get benefits you had to go and sit in the town hall all day, or by cleaning the streets and public building. Rather than sitting at home with the heating on full and the windows open watching sky TV and feuding with your neighbors, while being listed as both a victim in several open police cases and a perpetrator in several more.

If we build twice as many prisons and instead of giving out asbo's we enforced the law. And where in prison, release would be contingent on being drug free and able to read and write. And if education was the principle pursuit of prison authorities, so people there would be forced to study for GCSE's or vocational skills.

If teachers, soldiers, police and nurses were well paid and respected once more. And planning officers and god knows how many X-officers working for local authorities were removed from their meddlesome jobs and returned to public sector employment. If public spending was shifted to the core. Schools Hospitals and Armed Forces, and out of Authorities, quangos and departments.

It might sound like hell to you. But it sounds like nirvana to me. The sad thing about our society is that the above sounds so unlikely.

It sounds great to me, but the spanner in the works in France, I believe you cant vote if your unemployed/ex criminal? You still have an unemployed underclass, strong unions, and a lazy attitude...

Edited by moosetea

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Hang on, are you saying that representative democracy DOESN'T reflect the will of the people? ...

If you're talkign about a first-past-the-post, minority rule, non-compulsory electoral system with boundary changes, regional devolution and EU overlords.... yes i would hesitate before describing our democracy as 'representative'.... it's the will of about a third of the people...

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It sounds great to me, but the spanner in the works in France, I believe you cant vote if your unemployed? You still have an unemployed underclass, strong unions, and a lazy attitude...

Who told you that the unemployed can't vote in France?

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Who told you that the unemployed can't vote in France?

Something I heard along time ago.... just checked and it looks like Im wrong.... Ive changed my mind, lets ban the unemployed from voting all in favor say aye!

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Guest sillybear2
Who told you that the unemployed can't vote in France?

They're all too lazy to bother doing so anyway :P

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It sounds great to me, but the spanner in the works in France, I believe you cant vote if your unemployed/ex criminal? You still have an unemployed underclass, strong unions, and a lazy attitude...

Its a country where a recent survey found that 80% of university graduates wanted to work for the public sector.

Edited by KingBingo

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Its a country where a recent survey found that 80% of university graduates wanted to work for the public sector.

Nice cheese though! Don't think the French are 'natural' capitalists (remember, they had a revolution).

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If you're talkign about a first-past-the-post, minority rule, non-compulsory electoral system with boundary changes, regional devolution and EU overlords.... yes i would hesitate before describing our democracy as 'representative'.... it's the will of about a third of the people...

In terms of influencing a nation government - about 10%; the people who live in these places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_cons..._United_Kingdom

If you live in Richmond and don't like William Hague, for example, you might just as well wipe your **** with your voting slip.

(A random choice, there may be safer seats about)

General Election 2005: Richmond (Yorks)

Conservative William Hague 26,722

Labour Neil Foster 8,915

Liberal Democrat Jacquie Bell 7,982

Green Leslie Rowe 1,581

Majority 17,807 39.4

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Can you imagine what this country could achieve if you could only vote if you were a tax payer at the basic rate.

Can you imagine what we could achieve if in order to get benefits you had to go and sit in the town hall all day, or by cleaning the streets and public building. Rather than sitting at home with the heating on full and the windows open watching sky TV and feuding with your neighbors, while being listed as both a victim in several open police cases and a perpetrator in several more.

If we build twice as many prisons and instead of giving out asbo’s we enforced the law. And where in prison, release would be contingent on being drug free and able to read and write. And if education was the principle pursuit of prison authorities, so people there would be forced to study for GCSE’s or vocational skills.

If teachers, soldiers, police and nurses were well paid and respected once more. And planning officers and god knows how many X-officers working for local authorities were removed from their meddlesome jobs and returned to public sector employment. If public spending was shifted to the core. Schools Hospitals and Armed Forces, and out of Authorities, quangos and departments.

It might sound like hell to you. But it sounds like nirvana to me. The sad thing about our society is that the above sounds so unlikely.

Absolutely spot on mate. id vote for you all day long. common sense/ contribute to society party. bravo

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Can you imagine what this country could achieve if you could only vote if you were a tax payer at the basic rate.

Your argument is essentially one against democracy. It would be like a regression towards the 19th century where one had to be a landowner in order to be part of the electorate. Universal suffrage is a basic principle of a democracy, if you don't have it you don't live in a democracy. Is this what you are advocating?

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Nice cheese though! Don't think the French are 'natural' capitalists (remember, they had a revolution).

The UK actually has more varieties of cheese than France. That's a cheese fact.

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The UK actually has more varieties of cheese than France. That's a cheese fact.

I'm not dissing UK cheese - very partial to many an English or Scottish cheese, but there is some very nice French stuff.

If the Europeans lead the world in one thing, it's cheese.

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Your argument is essentially one against democracy. It would be like a regression towards the 19th century where one had to be a landowner in order to be part of the electorate. Universal suffrage is a basic principle of a democracy, if you don't have it you don't live in a democracy. Is this what you are advocating?

yes.

I would argue what we have now is closer to mob rule than democracy. Why should someone who only consumes and never contributes and those that are completely politically illiterate be able to choose people to govern. Why should people who have been sent to jail be considered suitable to vote.

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What`s all this talk about the `New Capitalism` that Peston was on about. Just what exactly does that mean? How far can capitalism be rebranded to make it `new` without it ceasing to be capitalism?

Anyone got any ideas?! :blink:

Old Capitalism

large (and increasing levels of) borrowing --- short termism -- make as much money as possible before co. collapses -- load debt onto next generation

New Capitalism

Low borrowing --- business grown at a slower rate --- or Peston as says---

"For many, the New Capitalism may well seem fairer and less alienating than the model of the past 30 years, in that the

system's salvation may require it to be kinder, gentler, less divisive, less of a casino in which the winner takes all."

I'd call it Decent Capitalism. .... as opposed to the sh1t capitalism that Brown has fostered.

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/newcapitalism.pdf

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Your argument is essentially one against democracy. It would be like a regression towards the 19th century where one had to be a landowner in order to be part of the electorate. Universal suffrage is a basic principle of a democracy, if you don't have it you don't live in a democracy. Is this what you are advocating?

Bo11ox.

The suggestion is, if I want to vote, I get a job, which is a bit easier than acquiring land.

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yes.

I would argue what we have now is closer to mob rule than democracy. Why should someone who only consumes and never contributes and those that are completely politically illiterate be able to choose people to govern. Why should people who have been sent to jail be considered suitable to vote.

So they'd just get short term employment at election time in order to cast their vote for the party which would enable them to live on benefits for the next five years before leaving their job immediately afterwards?

I like the idea of banning upper rate taxpayers from voting, however, they can influence political parties by funding them instead.

The trouble is differentiating the "can't work" from the "won't work". When we get stories of job centres wanting to interview people who are claiming incap the nation throws up its collectives abou the poor people who have to fill in forms.

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Bo11ox.

The suggestion is, if I want to vote, I get a job, which is a bit easier than acquiring land.

How do you define having a job? Very easy for a government to change the definition to suit it's purposes and rig the outcome.

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yes.

I would argue what we have now is closer to mob rule than democracy. Why should someone who only consumes and never contributes and those that are completely politically illiterate be able to choose people to govern. Why should people who have been sent to jail be considered suitable to vote.

If you think you live under mob rule I can only suggest you have no understanding of what mob rule is. Compare Britain with somewhere like Liberia or Zimbabwe.

Exactly how does being a basic rate tax payer guarantee that someone is politically literate? I don't see that the two factors are related in any meaningful way. Perhaps you can elaborate?

If someone is suddenly made redundant through no fault of their own, why should this person also lose their right to vote just because they are no longer paying tax? The very notion seems ridiculous to me.

I would turn your second point around since the basis on which it is proposed is not apparent to me. Why should people who have been sent to jail NOT be considered suitable to vote. Does one stop being a citizen if one has spent time in prison for whatever reason?

Edited by Basildon Bond

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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