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Thinking of investing in gold (probably about £5,000 max); what are the risks/cons of bullionvault in particular.

I understand the risk of government theft however BV seems to let you specify that the gold is held in zurich, which should insulate against the elevated risk of theft by UK govt. Is this right?

Your thoughts please.

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I need to get something clear in my head... what is meant by theft by UK govt?

Reading other posts, the way to go seems to be - buy sovereigns or krugers. And if the govt want them back, them blow torch them into a bangle or something. Not sure show to do this, probably end up burning down the kitchen. Don't want to do that, it's hard enough cleaning the oven.

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I need to get something clear in my head... what is meant by theft by UK govt?

In 1930s America, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102 on April 5th, 1933 and Executive Order 6260 on August 28th, 1933. (Order 6260 revoked and superceded 6102.) These laws made it illegal (a federal crime with penalties of a $10,000 fine and/or 10 years imprisonment) for any US citizen to possess physical gold coins or bullion.

I think there is, shall we say, some concern that future, dire economic circumstances may encourage the British government to act in a similar way.

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In 1930s America, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102 on April 5th, 1933 and Executive Order 6260 on August 28th, 1933. (Order 6260 revoked and superceded 6102.) These laws made it illegal (a federal crime with penalties of a $10,000 fine and/or 10 years imprisonment) for any US citizen to possess physical gold coins or bullion.

I think there is, shall we say, some concern that future, dire economic circumstances may encourage the British government to act in a similar way.

It is estimated that only 25% of the gold was turned in. They are still digging up stashes of coins in back yards. If they want something then it would be far easier to take the deeds to your house since you cant move that.

You wouldn't melt it to convert to ladies bangles. Perhaps you recall sovereign rings and stuff. You can buy the mounts ready made, eg http://www.cooksongold.com/Findings/9ct-Ye...-prcode-NBY-002. Personally I wouldn't bother I would just make some cheap wire mounts and slot the coins in to make it like one of those chains of office that town mayors wear.

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.... I would just make some cheap wire mounts and slot the coins in to make it like one of those chains of office that town mayors wear.

Thanks Thod. Can you expand on this wire mount idea, I don't have a visual in my head to understand this.

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I need to get something clear in my head... what is meant by theft by UK govt?

Others have dealt with this but my concern is that in extremis HMG could sieze physical gold holding and use this for their own purposes. Obviously a large vault of the stuff held by a e-gold provider in london would be the first place they would go to but if it's in Zurich then it is out of their reach.

At the risk of returning to my original query, do users consider BV to be "safe" or is physical gold the only way to go?

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My opinion would be to favour physical gold. If the economy goes to pot, then you will need gold in hand anyway. What use will it be if it is an vault somewhere.

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My opinion would be to favour physical gold. If the economy goes to pot, then you will need gold in hand anyway. What use will it be if it is an vault somewhere.

Frankly, if things went so badly that you needed physical gold then firearms and tinned food would seem to be the best investment.

I don't want to go down the physical gold route. The risks of having £5,000 gold in the house outweigh the risks of total economic collapse. Doesn't much of the physical stuff also attract VAT and a significant premium over the spot market.

I want a proportion of my FTB fund in gold to protect against rampant inflation not economic armaggeddon; BV looks like the best bet, any comments?

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I don't want to go down the physical gold route. The risks of having £5,000 gold in the house outweigh the risks of total economic collapse.

A 250g bar (about 5k) is very small - you can easily hide them well. They're slightly bigger than credit-card sized really.

The trouble (for me) with BV is that it's all too easy to feel the need to sell if the value increases, buy as it falls back...etc. With physical, I didn't have the same feeling and it's much easier to keep a hold of!

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Frankly, if things went so badly that you needed physical gold then firearms and tinned food would seem to be the best investment.

I don't want to go down the physical gold route. The risks of having £5,000 gold in the house outweigh the risks of total economic collapse. Doesn't much of the physical stuff also attract VAT and a significant premium over the spot market.

I want a proportion of my FTB fund in gold to protect against rampant inflation not economic armaggeddon; BV looks like the best bet, any comments?

That is only 10 odd coins.... all you need for "insurance" purposes and very easy to hide. Just do not tell anyone you have them... and do not be so paranoid. :)

Edited by roman holiday

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It is estimated that only 25% of the gold was turned in. They are still digging up stashes of coins in back yards.

:lol: Good on 'em. Sadly, those who felt it was their patriotic duty and complied with the edict were the ones that got screwed.

There's a moral in there somewhere......

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:lol: Good on 'em. Sadly, those who felt it was their patriotic duty and complied with the edict were the ones that got screwed.

There's a moral in there somewhere......

The goats shall be separated from the sheep? :rolleyes:

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A 250g bar (about 5k) is very small - you can easily hide them well. They're slightly bigger than credit-card sized really.

....

Do you feel this will be easy to sell back if you need to ?

Coins seem to have the advantage in that they can be sold relatively easily.

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Others have dealt with this but my concern is that in extremis HMG could sieze physical gold holding and use this for their own purposes. Obviously a large vault of the stuff held by a e-gold provider in london would be the first place they would go to but if it's in Zurich then it is out of their reach.

At the risk of returning to my original query, do users consider BV to be "safe" or is physical gold the only way to go?

yes

I've used them, they're ok.

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Do you feel this will be easy to sell back if you need to ?

Coins seem to have the advantage in that they can be sold relatively easily.

agree

uber goldbugs recommend physical possession.

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Apologies for jumping on this thread. I have finally decided to bite the bullet, and invest with BullionVault (having sat by and watched prices increase almost 10% in a fortnight or so!).

Am very wary by nature, and so have many reservations.

In completing a BACS payment for my online account, I have noticed that the sort code that they supplied relates to a branch out in Essex, rather than the Threadneedle Street that is shown against branch name, in the BACS form that BullionVault supply.

Alarm bells are ringing, would therefore welcome any comments/guidance.

Thanks in advance.

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My opinion would be to favour physical gold. If the economy goes to pot, then you will need gold in hand anyway. What use will it be if it is an vault somewhere.

BullionVault IS allocated physical gold bullion, insured in a vault in London, Zurich, or New York. The gold is not owned by BV, but is allocated and owned by you, in the custody of ViaMat, as far as I understand. The gold is insured with Lloyds of London. BV only acts as a third party. All of this is on thewir web site, and is my understanding of the situation. It is very reasonably priced, and, in my opinion, very much safer than storing gold bullion at home.

Before buying gold to store at home, ask your insurance company about it, seriously! By the way, where are you going to keep the key for the safe? The other serious consideration is that once investment gold bullion is taken out of a vault, it loses its value by up to 6%, because nobody knows the history of the bullion, and whether it has a "heart of lead"!

I like BV. It is very easy to buy and sell, the spread is very low, and there are excellent charts on the site. The other way to buy gold is using a gold bullion ETF such as PHGP in a share account or ISA, although many gold bullion dealers (I know one, who regard gold ETF's as "paper gold") think this is unsafe in a time of crisis, which is why many people own gold bullion in the first place!

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BullionVault IS allocated physical gold bullion, insured in a vault in London, Zurich, or New York. The gold is not owned by BV, but is allocated and owned by you, in the custody of ViaMat, as far as I understand. The gold is insured with Lloyds of London. BV only acts as a third party. All of this is on thewir web site, and is my understanding of the situation. It is very reasonably priced, and, in my opinion, very much safer than storing gold bullion at home.

Before buying gold to store at home, ask your insurance company about it, seriously! By the way, where are you going to keep the key for the safe? The other serious consideration is that once investment gold bullion is taken out of a vault, it loses its value by up to 6%, because nobody knows the history of the bullion, and whether it has a "heart of lead"!

I like BV. It is very easy to buy and sell, the spread is very low, and there are excellent charts on the site. The other way to buy gold is using a gold bullion ETF such as PHGP in a share account or ISA, although many gold bullion dealers (I know one, who regard gold ETF's as "paper gold") think this is unsafe in a time of crisis, which is why many people own gold bullion in the first place!

Hi Housing Bear,

I agree with everything you say re paper vs physical, and the low spreads.

What is concerning me is that they appear to be misrepresenting where the customer accounts are lodged. The BACS form that they provide states "Threadneedle St" (or similar, I haven't got it up in front of me now) against branch; wheras the sort code indicates that it is located in Chelmsford, Essex (and not even the High Street, with all the other banks, but hidden down a back alley in a building that deals with redundant accounts).

If they had been up front with the location of this bank, I wouldn't have given it another thought. However, they appear to be trying to pretend that this bank is something that it isn't, and this causes me to question what else might not be what it appears to be.

Thanks though for your contribution.

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Before buying gold to store at home, ask your insurance company about it, seriously! By the way, where are you going to keep the key for the safe? The other serious consideration is that once investment gold bullion is taken out of a vault, it loses its value by up to 6%, because nobody knows the history of the bullion, and whether it has a "heart of lead"!

If you buy gold to store at home, dont tell your mates. Keep it to yourself- tell no one. Buy coins from a reputable place (ATS Coininvest, Bairds etc). Why do you need to buy bars? 5000 sovereigns will fit in a small box and there will not be any dispute about their authenticity, except by a fool. 1kg bars are accepted as they are, so long as they are well known refiners bars. Which insurance company do you recommend, AIG? Who needs insurance companys? they only try to get out of their liability unless its cheap. Gold is insurance.

Bullion Vault is great but I would go for some in BV and some in sovereigns which will be CG tax free.

Edited by endgame

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Hi Housing Bear,

What is concerning me is that they appear to be misrepresenting where the customer accounts are lodged. The BACS form that they provide states "Threadneedle St" (or similar, I haven't got it up in front of me now) against branch; wheras the sort code indicates that it is located in Chelmsford, Essex (and not even the High Street, with all the other banks, but hidden down a back alley in a building that deals with redundant accounts).

If they had been up front with the location of this bank, I wouldn't have given it another thought. However, they appear to be trying to pretend that this bank is something that it isn't, and this causes me to question what else might not be what it appears to be.

Hi Lee Harvey Oswald, thanks for your valuable point. Why don't you phone them and ask to speak to Paul Tustain, who set up BullionVault? He is usually there. He tells me that BV is regulated not by the SFA, but the London Metal Trading authorities. Please let us all know what he says! Thanks.

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If you buy gold to store at home, dont tell your mates. Keep it to yourself- tell no one. Buy coins from a reputable place (ATS Coininvest, Bairds etc).

Thanks for your contribution. Last time I looked there was a large premium of the cost of gold sovereigns, in oz of gold, over gold bullion. Has this imporved. I did phone Baird as well, and there is also a fairly large bod/offer spread when you want to sell your sovereigns again. Have things improved?

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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