NorthamptonBear

For those considering doing salary sacrifice to get a company Tesla: Salary sacrifice reduces your & your employer's tax bills, might get you under tax and child benefit threshold (especially in combination with additional pension contributions - useful when tax bands aren't changing, bring more & more people into higher-rate). BIK rates have been announced until 2028. They could change, I guess - BTW BIK ratees . https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-faq/what-are-the-current-bik-bands-/3/ Business leases for Model 3 & BMW are similar. BIK isn't. How do you get a cost of £1200? The ones I've looked at are around £650 for M3Performance, less for Long Range or Standard. I posted examples yesterday. What is your lease provider charging for cheapest and most expensive BMW3? Unless you work for a bank, employer should be able to reclaim VAT. Some more

"You can prove anything with facts" I have used mine to do over 1000 km a day (I was in Europe, mostly Germany, autobahn speeds or max 120km/h outside Germany, plenty of traffic at times, travelling with young family needing many long stops). Bjorn Nyland compared ICE to EV, 15 minute difference over 1000 km when you know what you're doing. Use https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to compare any route, easier with Tesla Superchargers/cars. https://ev-database.org/uk/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car Leaf is 269/281 Wh/m (Watt hours per mile) depending on model compared to 245 Wh/mile (more than 4 miles per kWh). Teslas are the most efficient.

Model 3 is best selling saloon in USA, China & Europe...

How does 700 turn into 1200? Have you got your figures wrong? Is there some insurance quirk, lots of points/convictions? You pay gross, save on Income Tax & National Insurance, possibly come down a level to below a tax threshold or child benefit level. Employer saves National Insurance. 700 salary sacrifice, so about 4-500 actual net salary cost to employee? Do you mean a 1200 quid car would cost you 700 after tax? That'd be an expensive car! https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/04/13/employees-rate-electric-vehicle-salary-sacrifice-most-valuable-benefit

Quoted range depends on what each country mandates. I've found EPA fairly accurate. Biggest hit is always first year as that's when some lithium plating occurs, degradation slows down after that. Newer battery chemistry is improved. Interesting article comparing EPA/WLTP ranges - https://insideevs.com/news/414786/comparison-epa-wltp-range-ratings/ Big wheels/low-profile tyres will cut down range on any car. If you're bothered by range, Long range seems best, add performance upgrade if you want. Also brakes on LR may be better for everyday driving than Performance (true for many cars with exotic brakes that have to be hot to perform well) - https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1620/Tesla-Model-3-Performance Range better at slow speeds, congestion, worse on autobahns. I've driven 4-5 hour round trips on one charge on a few occasions, 1000 km a day with family that insisted on/needed lots of long stops. Record for 1000km is 15 minutes longer than a PHEV reference car (plug-in hybrid using petrol for all but start of journey). https://insideevs.com/news/597394/tesla-model3-performance-1000km-challenge/ 9 hours for PHEV, 9:15 for Tesla. Obviously a lot more relaxing in the Tesla. Massive Benefit In Kind (BIK) on BMWs below. Model 3 Performance range :- Model 3 Long range: https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1591/Tesla-Model-3-Long-Range-Dual-Motor

"None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see." I mean, do they think they'll convince anyone? What's the point? Anyone in the market for a new car should do some research & quickly find the truth. Anyone with an employer with salary sacrifice should see too. Sensible to benchmark the Teslas just to see how they compare. Only a few people buy new cars, I've only done it twice. Keeping existing banger on the road is one thing, but choosing a new ICE (petrol/diesel - Internal Combustion Engine) only makes sense in a few cases or where Tesla don't yet offer a product (which to be fair is the bulk of traditional UK purchases, making Tesla 3 & Y sales an anomaly - which itself is an important piece of info)..

Popular place to work - either 1st or second for top engineering talent (alternates with SpaceX, but joining one allows you to do work at both companies).

No it doesn't, have you read it? It talks about EV segment, not whole market. Try again... and again...

Perhaps the missed all of the announcements. Here's one section from the Impact Report. Any EV displacing an ICE vehicle is good, but only Tesla is able to do that in volume in the USA & Europe. Model Y best seller in those 2 markets & China of course. UK - Model 3 seems to be slightly more expensive than the cheapest BMW 3 series (with no equipment/options - which few people would buy). Much more expensive BMW 3 versions of course. Page 62 https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2022-tesla-impact-report.pdf

Tesla are gaining market share (of all fuel types) in California.

Less % of EV market, but greater % of car market. As the EV market moves towards becoming a greater share of the whole car market, more Teslas sold (all without advertising). The Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the whole USA, whole Europe, whole China. Nothing sells more than these segment-dominating Tesla cars.

If talking just EVs -

Every segment Tesla enter, they dominate irrespective of fuel type. Model 3 - best selling saloon car. Model Y - best selling SUV Impact Report available

Model Y has more utility, up 176%. Still NO BMW or Mercedes above Model 3 in March 2023!

Model 3 - 24th in March. While no BMW or Mercedes until 38th position even though they are locally produced. https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2023/04/europe-march-2023-tesla-model-y-1-over-q1/

The argument seems to have shifted from Tesla is Betamax, to Model Y is great, Model 3 isn't (or at least one, for one person).

The extra is recouped after 25,000 miles. Having a high maintenance, pollution spewing car of any kind is not as good as a typical electric car. https://twitter.com/AukeHoekstra

The title thread is just nonsense. Tesla Model Ys are the most popular car in the world's 3 biggest markets. Best selling car (of any fuel type) in USA, China, EU and less so in UK. These markets have a massive advantage - that Model Ys are coming from local production, whereas UK & Ireland depend on Chinese production & shipping while new markets are sapping supply for Tesla's Chinese production - Australia, New Zealand, Thailand already with Indonesia, Malaysia and others to follow soon. Turkey seems to be supplied from Berlin. Tesla Model Y is likely to be the best selling car in the world this year - for very good reasons. Model Y being much more expensive than the other top 10 cars is a headwind the car has overcome. The main limitations are Supply - being increased, as Tesla develop their factories & processes closer to markets and logistics issues improve. In UK, the Chinese boats arrive late Feb, march, and you can see that March's deliveries of 8123 are almost the full three months of 9953. If Berlin supplies to UK, deliveries would increase. Affordability - being improved through lower prices as lower input prices (raw materials) feed through and production improvements lead to lower costs (Wright's Law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects). From memory, 17% cost reduction for every doubling of production. No-one can match Tesla. Any EV tooling requires borrowing money at high interest rates/onerous terms by severely indebted companies with a fair chance of failing soon (except for Tesla who have a cash balance and can self fund anything they choose to do). The closest is BYD and they're mostly China for cars (buses, HGVs elsewhere). Even in China, Tesla are beating BYD by most metrics. BYD have scaled back plans for USA & Europe as they're unsure if they will succeed, even with future local production. And for most people, the Tesla Supercharger network is somewhere between vital and reassuring, depending on where and how they use the cars. Dependability, ease of use, car navigation/availability info are key. If you have staff who drive a lot, you'd want them as relaxed and available as possible, all while saving a fortune (fuel, employment taxes). Electricity costs will fall as the moratorium on solar, wind and battery projects is undone. We could have been electricity independent without this artificial limit on the market. Quite often I see UK renewables close to 50% - wouldn't take much to take it higher, with an eventual goal of 300-500% of electricity needs from solar & wind (it's so cheap compared to coal, gas, nuclear that it makes sense to overprovision). Also much quicker to implement. Adding a small amount of battery storage helps as well.

Ordering a Tesla will lock in the price. Deposit refundable if you change your mind or get another car before - for individuals (maybe not company). If price goes up - you get the order price. If price goes down you get the new one. Many people got cars many thousands of pounds below new order prices - some buyers have sold straight away for a profit (Australia & some USA states had a small industry of this at one time), such that in some markets, Tesla have terms & conditions to try to prevent this or at least preventing the same customer ordering multiple in short time spans. Particularly useful with exchange rate risks, supply problems etc leading to UK price changes

Refineries closing down, other refineries not adaptable to different crude types & being idled. There might be crude oil but no usable fuel. Unlikely that investors would bother with new refineries or large capital costs to improve/maintain them as refineries' future prospects are grim. During these phase out periods, costs, profits and availability will whipsaw from one extreme to the other. Electric Vehicles, home and grid-level storage can use the midnight to 4am window to charge (encouraged by Time Of Use tariffs). This is a time slot when the grid struggles to find a use for electricity, which itself is a struggle/risk to the grid operators and they welcome EVs/storage as part of the answer.

25,000 km before EV wins, 2-3 years of driving. Remaining years, clear winner & we're not breathing in pollution. I'm always fascinated by the many posts of luddites on Daily Fail comments who are obsessed by cobalt mining when it's used in cars (normally through tightly monitored ethical supply chains) but haven't cared for the much larger amounts used up in refining diesel (especially) which is sourced much less ethically (child labour). Note the cobalt used in refineries is lost, it isn't recycled (unlike EVs where batteries are valuable for second/third use, or even as high grade ore). Cobalt is a heavy metal. All the polluting SUVs/Rage Rovers with engines on (for the air-con) sitting outside schools is doing harm to the kids & the cars' drivers. Fitting pollution meters to inside new cars, outside schools & junctions would probably hasten change.

Probably fine without peaker plants/fossils if EVSE (wall charger) or car timer set to midnight to 4am or even just pause 6-8pm. 2400-0400 charging would probably help the grid as it did when National Grid asked EV owners to charge overnight (see bottom of post). After these "additional 1 million cars" are charged for a few nights (28kwh, 90+ miles in 4 hours), most wouldn't need another midnight to 4 am for several days, so it smoothes out quickly. https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted Asking for more or less electricity usage most effective with Ev-owners https://www.power-technology.com/news/national-grid-eso-time-of-use-tariff-test-smart-meter/

Or anywhere non-military. It's terror, it's evil and it's a desperate attempt to terrorise Zelensky and Ukrainian cities into submission. It won't work, and I hope those that decided on this type of bombardment will be punished. I also hope that the artillery, command and ammunition can be targeted to prevent further shelling.

No. In most wars explosives kill more than bullets. The use of Russian artillery to bombard cities is particularly bad as it seems to be indiscriminate, hurting more non-combatants and therefore a war crime. Calling the Russian soldiers names and demonising is counter productive. Something like 40% of Russians (according to some random news report) have Ukrainian relatives. I don't think that most of the troops want to be there, harming any Ukrainians. There are some nutters, there always will be (Chechens included), there will be a lot more scared, badly trained and undisciplined Russian soldiers looking for a way out. We want the Russians to go home, not with hatred for Ukrainians, but hatred for Putin and overthrow him. The Ukrainians are mostly targeting high-value targets, command, control and the like. They're taking prisoners. Every prisoner spreads the word at home, to many relatives, breaks state propaganda. A well treated prisoner is worth more than a dead Russian soldier. Committing atrocities would stiffen Russian resistance. The key is to separate Putin from other Russians.

I agree with you too. I also differentiate between Putin, his inner circle, outer circle and poor sods expecting to go on exercise. It's the use of artillery that seems to be particularly upsetting for many.